Ok, you buggers (affectionately said). Are some affairs more acceptable than others?

[Koala72]

Right. So, after an unpleasant brush with a psychopathic sociopathic female who attempted to break up our family, I have studied the whole business of affairs for a while now.

And this is the question to you lot:

A lot of men - pretty much most men - seem to have sex or an EA out of their main partnership at one time or another. I did a survey of all the men I know, and only found a couple who hadn't (and I mean family, extended family, all friends, colleagues, neighbours - all of them).

Let us just swallow the bitter pill and say ok, this is likely to happen.
(for argument's sake)

Now - whereas an affair with a woman who intends to stay with the guy, and therefore this will involve him leaving his main partner and possibly kids, is clearly very destructive and life-changing, is it ok for him to have an affair, dalliance, EA, whatever, with a woman who doesn't want him to leave his family?

So, she wants to see him a couple of times a month, talk to him, have him as some kind of sex interest, but the last thing on earth she would want would be for him to leave his main family. Mutual discretion, controlled behaviour, both sides safeguarding any families involved so that they just have a private relationship which in some way helps them, and hurts nobody.

Isn't this OK? (given that if it's going to happen, it may as well happen in a way that doesn't hurt anybody??)

All hypothetical, of course.

given that if it's going to happen, it may as well happen in a way that doesn't hurt anybody??

I can't answer that question because I reject your assertion that an affair with a woman who doesn't want him to leave his wife wouldn't hurt anyone. It hurts the sexual health of the wife who didn't know her husband was shagging around. It hurts that same wife emotionally when she finally finds out. It hurts the children when their parents break up suddenly and messily. It hurts extended families and friendship groups.

Having a no-strings-attached affair is not the clever and compassionate response to wanting to have sex with someone else behind ones partners back. The clever and compassionate response is to put more into ones marriage - or if that's really not working, to end the marriage before embarking on a new relationship.

Ok. Well to answer your first question:yes. Affairs where children are present in a relationship are worse than affairs in childless relationships.
To discuss your OP:

1. To say that the majority of men cheat is incorrect-I think it may be an issue with your sample group.
2. It doesn't matter what the offending parties intend-there is always a risk that the innocent party will find out and heartbreak and family breakdown will ensue. Most affairs are intended as secrets.
3. It's disgusting behaviour regardless of whether the affair is discovered or not. The Cheater is risking the happiness of his real partner/his children for no reason as is the accomplice. On top of that the cheater is sleeping with two people at once which is a bit gross. The OW is sleeping with someone who doesn't respect her which is also gross. On top of that you have broken promises and lying.

All affairs risk hurting innocent people and all affairs degrade the offending parties. There are all bad.

Iv said Similair before but as someone who has had a string of relationships and isn't actually sure monogamy long term works for everyone - you don't get to have your cake and eat it . Commit or don't . It's a choice . You can't have both and people will almost always get hurt however discreet you try to be .

Sorry - and I don’t really like to be insulting to posters as a rule - but you are just a dickhead.
If it was ‘OK, - and I’m not sure what the hell you mean by that - then there would be no need to lie, sneak around or deceive anyone would there?
And why are you obsessed with the idea that men stray and women don’t?

The affairs where the spouse leaves for the Affair partner....

This doesn't sit comfortably for me.

Let me explain:

The marriage is ticking along. Life is happening eg work, kids stress, financial worries...

Needs aren't being met. Intimacy (in to me you see) sharing vulnerability is not happening because we tend to close down when we're trying to cope and maybe feel our significant other doesn't see us anymore.

The spouse and coworker start sharing conversations at work. Overtime sharing more intimate conversations (not sexual). Feeling start to grow. Spouse starts sharing less with the spouse at home. Walls start to be built up between the spouses whilst the relationship between the coworkers grow.

Then the coworkers cross the line and have sex. By this time they're in Limerence and it's the end of the marriage.

Google 'The Cheater Cascade.'

I just find it so sad tbh. I just wish we could intervene BEFORE the affair happens you know?

I don’t understand your point. I think a lot of marriages don’t break up on affairs because I think that both parties don’t want to rock the boat. Some women don’t care if their partners are having affiairs. They just want them to give them money/respectability and then go away. Also a lot of women have affairs too. You seem to have gone back in time to the fiction where married men have affairs with some sort of scheming desperate evil unmarried women.

I have said it before , what Any Fucker said it's not negotiable, if you shag somebody else and you are in a relationship it's fucking seedy, awful and cruel. No, it's not okay because you think it's for the best,byou won't be found out, it's a shitty and cruel way to go

Op, i think i understand where you are coming from, but this applies to women as well. Perhaps it would be interesting to see if thedifferent types of affairs you decide is more prevalent with one group over the other?

I know a number of men and wronged who have had affairs. The only two that i thought were ok were one offs by women each in very controlling relationships.

Long term monogamy isn’t easy - some might say it isn’t natural - but we don’t live in a state of nature, and jobs and mortageages and cities and iPads aren’t natural either.
So wanting to have sex with a variety of different people is natural. Deciding it’s more important to you to have sex with others and end the stability of your primary relationship can happen to people. But if that is what you want then you discuss the prospects of an open relationship which is either consented to or not. If not then you decide what is more important. What you can’t do is lie and betray someone by making out you are both denying yourselves sex with others while sneaking off and doing just that.
Should you really be with someone if you wish to cheat on them? And should they be with you.
Whatever pain is caused by honesty in discussing desires - it’s nothing to the pain of deceit and betrayal by the person sleeping next to you.
I’m afraid you see the ‘man provider to family unit’ as the prize and an affair as just a bit on the side - no harm done. Which makes you an aforementioned patriarch with a penis shaped brain.

Sorry, women not wronged!

I dont really understand why this is about men. Who are men having affairs with? Each other? An army of single women into married men? I agree a lot of people have affairs. Because a lot of people are cowards and morons.

Im not sure how knowing your partner had an affair but stayed with you because the woman wasnt interested is any better than them leaving you. Wouldnt make a difference to me, although I would probably feel more smug leaving the bastard knowing he was alone. I would be perfectly happy single- having a wonderful bloke just about enhances life. Sharing them (emotionally, etc) would make the cons outweigh the pros (not to mention health risks and all that). Anyone who has dated multiple people at the same time can see how having an affair is likely to detract from the primary relationship. In a open relationship at least you get the opportunity to negotiate all the difficulties honestly.

I would see a partner cheating on me as robbing me of my autonomy to an extent. I have to make sacrifices, on the basis of an agreement that they are not sticking to.

The only affair I could objectively see as being "better", if one which involves no deception. Cheating, really, rather than an affair. I.e. one person cheats on their partner, and then tells them shortly after. I wouldnt put up with it, but can see how you can come back from that and isnt indicative of such a huge character flaw.

JFC OP you sound like you're from the 1950s. Women find monogamy just as difficult as men do. If people, of whatever sex, struggle to keep their relationship monogamous they need to have an open relationship or break up.

@ "How strange. The only time I feel affairs might be justifiable is if one or the other partner is terminally ill or institutionalized."

Thats such awful advice. So according to you, if my wife gets breast cancer, I should be allowed to go screwing other women while she is in hospital?

More like long term care facility, stroke.
Breast cancer and most illnesses are treatable. Some rare stuff just isn’t and might fall into a grey zone.

Ivebeenaroundtheblock that is completely distasteful and I couldn’t disagree more.

Affairs are never acceptable in any circumstances.

But most affairs start with 'mutual discretion and controlled behaviour' though, don't they? With people kidding themselves that they'll never get caught, or get greedy. Both parties always agree to be discreet, or the affair doesn't develop. Divorce is expensive, messy, inconvenient and unsettling, so married people are not usually intending to leave, they're ultimately forced to leave because they've been caught.

You've worded your OP like an affair is more destructive and life changing if one person wants the other to leave their family, but it's the affair itself that is destructive, not the intentions of the cheaters when they stepped out on their marriage. And while you've found some very sugar coated ways of describing lying and cheating, it's still lying and cheating so no, I don't think there are acceptable affair types.

If my dh has an affair, regardless of whether or not he wanted to stay with us (his family), I wouldn't let him. I couldn't stay with him. It would eat be up emotionally and it would adversely affect my relationships with him and the children.

If my dh has an affair, regardless of whether or not he wanted to stay with us (his family), I wouldn't let him. I couldn't stay with him. It would eat be up emotionally and it would adversely affect my relationships with him and the children.

Of course it would, if you knew about it.

You are doing some hefty intellectual gymnastics designed to desperately grasp onto anything you possibly can do to stay with your cheating partner, so yeah, I agree with AF...

How many people cheat, what kind of affairs people have, how other people deal with them... It is all irrelevant. If you want to stay with your cheating partner you can, if you want to leave you can.

You don’t need to parade about on here as if you have discovered some wisdom no-one else knows about. This is an exceptionally personal decision.

I couldn't continue a relationship after an affair but i do think there's a big difference between affairs. If your partner has it with someone you know (friend/sister etc), that's just horrendous. If it goes on, that's a huge betrayal, it's thought out and cruel and abusive. If it's a one off, it could be a rough patch in the marriage, a mistake. The marriage would be over but it's more understandable to me.

Surely it depends on your moral compass? I couldn't look at my husband in the eye knowing I am sleeping with someone else and could not tolerate him doing the same.

You seem to know a lit of cheaters, I don't.. I do know some but are equally split man/woman.

You seem to imply that men can't be faithful but I disagree.

I think probably the dream scenario. For whom, the betrayed spouses? The children?

Why don't these poor men (and women) who can't stay faithful be up front about it from the off? No bullshit - just say "I'm pretty certain I won't be faithful to you, I'm selfish and will probably seek the attention of another human at some point so feel free to walk away now if that's not for you." Then people could make an informed decision about starting a relationship before money/feelings/kids are involved.

Simplistically, most people who have affairs are just being incredibly selfish, whether they are always like that or for a moment in time. So you are really asking, is it better for one partner to act on their own selfish impulses in a way that minimises the damage (if you believe that is possible) or better for them to act on them in a way that causes maximum damage. What you are not asking (because you have built in an assumption around this) is why so many people feel the need to act on their selfish impulses. Why do so many people think all of their needs and wants should be met all of the time? Why are so many people seemingly incapable of recognising that life is not always perfect and that is actually ok? Or realising that damage to their partner and relationship, however minimal, could be more relevant than their own 'feels' at a given point in time? Life ebbs and flows, relationships ebb and flow. If something is seriously wrong and there is no chance of improvement, leave. Yes, the tricky part is in judging how bad things are, can they get better, how long should I give it etc but things are rarely improved by looking elsewhere. If you don't believe monogomy (phone auto corrects as monotony ) is right for you, don't enter a monogamous relationship. If you feel tempted, look at what is going on with you and your life right now and ask why. Maybe it is because things are irreversibly bad. Maybe it's due to major life stress or change. Maybe it is some kind of existential crisis. Regardless, if more people were helped to understand the value of thought before action, they could act with honesty and integrity instead of impulsively causing a shit storm they often go on to regret. Clearly you would still have the seriously personality disordered who genuinely just don't/can't care but they really are a minority. Most people (men and women) are perfectly capable of a more thoughtful approach.

Discreet or not, a person having an affair or EA is LYING to their partner and having a secret life. That is not a good relationship. And these hypothetical discreet cheating men, I wonder if they would think it's OK for a woman to cheat as long as she's careful not to get caught and doesn't want to leave.