Ok, you buggers (affectionately said). Are some affairs more acceptable than others?

[Koala72]

Right. So, after an unpleasant brush with a psychopathic sociopathic female who attempted to break up our family, I have studied the whole business of affairs for a while now.

And this is the question to you lot:

A lot of men - pretty much most men - seem to have sex or an EA out of their main partnership at one time or another. I did a survey of all the men I know, and only found a couple who hadn't (and I mean family, extended family, all friends, colleagues, neighbours - all of them).

Let us just swallow the bitter pill and say ok, this is likely to happen.
(for argument's sake)

Now - whereas an affair with a woman who intends to stay with the guy, and therefore this will involve him leaving his main partner and possibly kids, is clearly very destructive and life-changing, is it ok for him to have an affair, dalliance, EA, whatever, with a woman who doesn't want him to leave his family?

So, she wants to see him a couple of times a month, talk to him, have him as some kind of sex interest, but the last thing on earth she would want would be for him to leave his main family. Mutual discretion, controlled behaviour, both sides safeguarding any families involved so that they just have a private relationship which in some way helps them, and hurts nobody.

Isn't this OK? (given that if it's going to happen, it may as well happen in a way that doesn't hurt anybody??)

All hypothetical, of course.

His affair, ( he claims he didn't sleep with her, but the sexts I read were pornographic and they did go on dates e.g. last Valentine's Day ), has dessimated our 27 year relationship.
She's nothing; short, plain, huge nose, never been out of a very small town, never done anything with her life, very average, no further education, nothing that makes her stand out.
It probably made her feel special when all the fuss about her wedding died down. He was looking for a bit of excitement because I'd gone back to full time work after breast cancer. I thought life was getting back on its feet. I didn't know a cheap little trollop and a male midlife crisis were waiting to wreck my life.
Your OP is rather flippant, IMHO, the effect of such an affair is devastating.
It's ruined my life. 😢

Koala, I see what you're getting at.
I've had a lot of difficult health issues recently and being totally honest I can see how / why my DH might be tempted to something like what you describe. If I didn't know about it, I'm not sure I can see the harm tbh. God knows 'normal life' can be an unholy grind a lot of the time, I dream of 'escape' sometimes and I'm sure he does too. I know we are completely solid together. I appreciate I'm in a minority but a discrete affair that I never knew about and never impacted on the family... it wouldn't be a disaster

Of course it would, if you knew about it.

And if I didn't, that's ok then?
The deceit, betrayal, all of that just doesn't matter if I didn't know about it?

Why get married? If you want to sleep with other people, you don't have to commit to being married to someone.

No affair is acceptable. By definition, an affair is a relationship that violates the monogamous partnership that has been agreed upon by both partners. There is simply no justification for effectively ending that partnership but not bothering to inform your partner.

The monogamous partnership has been murdered and yet the non cheating partner isn't even informed of its death. They're carrying on, deceived into continuing to invest time and energy into a dead relationship.

Totally unacceptable.

Sometimes, people don't realise how unfulfilled until they meet someone who reminds them who they used to be. I became friends with a man who did the same hobby as me. We laughed, shared common interests and enjoyed each other's company and connected in a way I never had with my then husband.

My friend was married and I never wanted to either put him or myself in the position of pushing our relationship into a full blown affair.

At the point I realised I would prefer to spend Time with my friend than my husband, I closed down the friendship and ended my marriage because I realised how unhappy I was.

Was it an emotional affair? Probably. Was it ok to do? Probably not but without it I never would have realised that I was 'settling' for a marriage that made me unhappy.

I've also been cheated on since then, and I know how devastating it feels but still I believe that life is made of shades of grey. I don't believe we should accept infidelity per se and it should always be challenged but I equally don't believe that the person you marry is always 'right'.

But ginger, what you did was realise you were unhappy in your relationship and then ended the the relationship, which was totally the right thing to do. The op seems to be advocating carrying on your marriage/partnership while secretly fulfilling your needs (emotional or physical) with another person. I.e. lying and cheating, living a double life.

Agreed. Anyone who has been cheated on will justifiably feel devastated. But the shades of grey comment is a good one.

I tried to leave my husband several times. He wouldn't let me, and I was too scared to just go. He didn't love me, but wanted me there as a wife, to do the child care, sort the house etc. and be there for the kids on his many jaunts away with friends. He got his 'intimacy' and needs from his friends - male and female - but wouldn't speak to me. I asked him innumerable times.

And yes - I had an affair. I'm not proud of it, and regret it every day, and will do for the rest of my life. It devastated everyone - friends, family, etc. My (now ex) husband too - and as a result I'll do anything he asks now - have the kids whenever he needs, accept whatever he says - which is often not nice - all through guilt.

It's not worth it. Don't ever underestimate the power of an affair. Everyone ends up paying.

I think people need to work on being independent.

And no, most men don't have affairs. Please link some real evidence.

Also I think, If I may say so, that the title of the thread is poorly thought through. 'You buggers' (affectionately meant)' implies a light hearted topic. This isn't light hearted.

Mutual discretion, controlled behaviour, both sides safeguarding any families involved so that they just have a private relationship which in some way helps them, and hurts nobody.

This is how the affair partners imagine it working out, but unfortunately, in most cases (I woud say), at some point this breaks down. Either it gets more serious and they start treating their partner like shit and/or break up with them, or the partner finds out.

It used to "work" to some extent in the olden days when women just accepted their husbands' affairs and turned a blind eye. These days, though, women have a little more power, and are less likely to put up with it. It's also less socially acceptable to turn a blind eye: you'd lose your own self-respect. So when it comes out, people are more likely to split up.

As a result, engaging in an affair always means running the risk of breaking up your family, however "careful" and "well-meaning" you are. You are always putting your partner's and your children's happiness on the line, always risking throwing them into depression, anxiety, sleeplessness, self-doubt, and uncertainty about their future.

So no, choosing to have an affair is always more unkind than breaking up with your partner in a way that does not say "you are no good", or choosing to stay and work on your relationship.

Ps even in the olden days women didn't sit quietly or turned a blind eye. They didn't leave but still the affairs split relationships.

My grandfather had an affair for years with a work colleague and my grandma ended up sleeping in a separate bedroom. She hated him and they barely spoke to each other.

Even back then it was severely condemned and not seen as normal.

Not all women turned a blind eye, but there were more who did back then than do today.

For me, affairs are a deal breaker. My ex had an affair and the damage it did moving forward was the hardest thing to overcome. (When the person you trust most has lied to your face for months, how tf do you believe what anyone says?).

I've been tempted, had the opportunity and would have got away with it but I couldn't live with the guilt of causing that hurt. Also, a close male married friend fell in love with me- just emotional obviously- but I had to end that friendship so he could put his eyes and energy back onto his wife and family. Not easy at all but imagine being a home wrecker.

I also think that someone who cheats will definitely do it to the the new person sooner or later.

^^ see my post above.

Not in a million years would I do it again. 9 years in, I still can't get over it. (My ex is mostly ok and definitely moved on) - people aren't all the same.

Married people who have affairs all ultimately get caught by their spouses. The reason is, your spouse knows you really well, your spouse can tell that something is new and different and something is "up with you".

This leads to suspicious, inquisition, snooping, and ultimately they discover something.

I takes a very special smart cunning sociopath to have affairs and manage to never get caught. Most people are not like that. I would also feel really bad being married to someone like that if I wasn't like that myself.

the first page of your posts make me very sad. really. to me the sanctity of marriage is a big thing. i chose him, he chose me, if he were to have an affair, it would destroy our relationship, there could be no moving on from that.
if he could care so little as to take the risk of cheating, and losing our relationship i could never forgive him. I cannot express how hurtful it would be if he kept a secret from me, that he intended to keep for the rest of his life.

maybe i sound naive, but we share everything. it would seem extreme. but we are big over sharers, and hopefully we dont get ripped apart by cheating....as you say most men do cheat.

mm2one, that is just not true, especially your first paragraph. Very many people seem to be self-absorbed and completely fail to notice all but the most obvious signs.

If MN is to be believed, we're surrounded by sociopaths and narcs although managing to avoid that descriptor for ourselves. It's risible. Affairs are not the answer, they're a symptom. I don't believe that anybody stands up and makes vows to another person believing that they won't keep to them.

The reason why there is limited 'data' about this topic is that it's taboo. Even where relationships are ended, it doesn't give an idea of the number of affairs that took place, only an absolute number of the one that broke up the relationships.

Not everybody talks about their relationships or the reasons for breakup. You'd also never know how many people 'turn a blind eye' either. As for guesstimating the number of affairs that are currently happening that are so far undiscovered - nobody knows. As for the ones that haven't ever been found out... well, you'll never know, will you?

Men are driven by sex. It’s usually the ow who puts the pressure on for it to be more.

is the intention of this post to just make the users of MN uncertain that their husbands have been faithful? honestly im not sure why else youd be posting this.

I think the intention is to get agreement that all men are cheaters but as long as they do it discreetly and don't break up the marriage, it's ok to turn a blind eye on it or forgive and forget.

I don't think there will ever be consensus on this as it's a deeply personal matter and actually most people these days would not put up with this behaviour, but if they do its up to them.

Life would have been simpler had church/society not pushed everyone down the faithful bit in the vows. If everyone had 2/3 lovers in their lives rather than one and it was the norm rather than a taboo, I’m sure everyone would be happier. Different people meet different needs. One person rarely meets all. A lot of compromise is involved. Anyone who has it all is very lucky.

I did a survey of all the men I know, and only found a couple who hadn't (and I mean family, extended family, all friends, colleagues, neighbours - all of them).

And you believed them all? Mine is a boastful gender - you shouldn't.

I have kept my trousers on except in the marital bedroom since I first took them off in the presence of now-DW, and that's forty years ago. Not a boast: a statement of fact.

Ever tempted? The occasional naughty thought which I push to one side.

And if you ignore the big talk there's more like me than you might think?

hungryhippo, respectfully, if this kind of thread upset me I wouldn't be reading it. How can anybody else make you feel secure or insecure that your husband would or wouldn't cheat? They can't - you know your husband.

christmaswreaths, agree with you entirely. Nobody can generalise on this or really make assumptions because it is such a personal matter and people have such different views and perspectives.