Being touched intimately without expecting it

[Wtfdoicare]

Does anyone else hate it? DH grabbed my boob in bed last night as I was trying to get to sleep and I reacted crossly. He was joking about after watching something about it on TV (he doesn't have form for this, honestly). He didn't understand why I didn't like it.

Quite shocked at the subtle “it’s normal some men are just grabbers” are we in the fucking 70s again?

You miss the point entirely. If that’s how you like it and how he likes it then there is no issue with consent as you both already know that the other likes it and has no problem with it.

What the FUCK is so difficult to understand about that??

Christ alive some people are either really stupid or just wilfully ignorant.

*After this PC thread, I will solemnly swear I will never grab my partners arse or nob again unless he directly asks me to.
I wouldnt want him to feel like a piece of meat.

Christ on a bike*

This ^^. If I have to ask permission to grab my admittedly gorgeous husband's arse in bed (whether I want some or not) I wouldn't touch him again.
I know my husband and he knows me - and we know the signals of yeah I'm up for it or no babe Im knackered and going to sleep.

So many posters are just not getting it. If you and your partner are happy then there really is no issue. If your partner isn't respecting your boundaries and is making you feel bad for complaining then that isn't on.

I'm with Offred too - some great posts. It's saddening to see how many on this thread either don't understand consent(!), or don't understand how other people's relationships might be quite different from their own. Whereas some clearly have established an acceptable level of robust physical banter between them, they shouldn't assume that's the same for everyone, let alone that other people's personal boundaries are or should be the same. Certainly in my own experience consent proceeds with mutual understanding of subtle cues - they don't need to be voiced ffs.
for you OP, and I hope your DH can understand he is not entitled to grab you just because you're married and in the same bed.

I know my husband and he knows me - and we know the signals of yeah I'm up for it or no babe Im knackered and going to sleep.
Well, yes! This seems to go against the rest of your post. What OP is complaining about is that her DH does not know her or the signals.

I am so glad I'm not a bloke.

Plus when she got cross he ‘couldn’t understand’ why. Which strongly implies that he argued or disagreed with her and/or tried to tell her she was being silly. Either of which indicates he has no respect for her right to consent and her right to her boundaries.

Anyone with half a brain would have readily been able to understand, and would have taken it on board straightaway. Which means he’s either stupid or staggeringly entitled.

FFS. It’s really not a difficult concept to grasp.

Well, yes! This seems to go against the rest of your post. What OP is complaining about is that her DH does not know her or the signals.

Its the first time this has happened - how does he know she would be offended? He cant mind read can he?

Really?? You think men have it difficult, by bad large, in comparison to women when it comes to issues of consent and/or sex and sexual behaviours?

Poor, poor men. All those women constantly using and abusing them without their consent. Oh wait...

Sigh. ^by and large*, obviously.

Its the first time this has happened - how does he know she would be offended? He cant mind read can he?
We don't know if it's the first time.
But if it is - no, he can't mind read. Which is precisely why he shouldn't have done it. He shouldn't have presumed it was OK to grab.
If it wasn't the first time then it's even more worrying.

When dh and I were engaged, I set a president, in that when we were away in NY we were in the hotel and he grabbed my boobs (I’m quite advantaged in that department), so he got the hint quite quickly that it wasn’t a turn on grabbing at them.

Really?? So by that stretch I'm abusing him by feeling his arse? Should he ltb?

OP said he doesnt have form for this.

My ex used to do this and I hated it - he would grab at my boobs or bum unexpectedly or start grinding up against me, usually when I was busy doing something like making dinner or reading. It never started with a caress or a kiss, he always just jumped right into rough advances. I hated it, it made me feel like a lump of meat and like he was only with me for sex - there wasn’t a lot of affection in how he treated me and the sex we did have involved a lot of coercion and guilt tripping so that I couldn’t say no.

It’s absolutely okay not to like being grabbed in that way and the onus shouldn’t be on you to tell another person, even a partner, that you don’t like being groped or grabbed. Nobody should touch you in a way you don’t like and if a person wishes to have the sort of relationship with their partner where they can grab and grope them at random (which some people like but others dislike) then they should ask their partner if that’s okay behaviour before they bring that into the relationship. Personally I hate being touched sexually, even by my DP, out of the blue and if he wants to initiate sex I want it to begin slowly and start with kissing or caressing my arms etc so that I feel in control, but I know others who would prefer for it to feel spontaneous. Everyone’s preferences and limits around sex are different and your partner should always understand and respect where your boundaries are.

If in the past you have encouraged or enjoyed being grabbed/ groped by your DP and you’ve just gone off it then perhaps it is now up to you to say that actually, you don’t like that anymore and you’d like it to stop, but if you’ve never indicated you like it then he shouldn’t be doing it.

Really?? So by that stretch I'm abusing him by feeling his arse? Should he ltb?
Why is it so hard to understand that you are not the OP and the OP's DH is not your DH and that your relationship is not the same as theirs?

Really?? So by that stretch I'm abusing him by feeling his arse? Should he ltb?

Are you groping him unexpectedly in a way that he doesn’t like? Are you groping him without consent? When he tells you he doesn’t like it do you invalidate his feelings about it?

If yes then it will probably destroy your marriage/relationship if it continues.

If no, then it’s fine and no-one gives a stuff about what consenting adults do to each other. It has nothing to do with anything on this thread.

And yy @HolgerDanske - Anyone with half a brain would have readily been able to understand

Anyone with half an understanding of consent would have been able to understand.

Even without a basic understanding of consent someone who is well meaning and didn’t intentionally cross that boundary would surely have been upset that they had and that their partner was upset about it.

MN really is poison and I'm finally off.

But. this is not sex pest territory. This is a couple who have no communication regarding boundaries. This is BOTH their faults.

But. this is not sex pest territory. This is a couple who have no communication regarding boundaries. This is BOTH their faults.

(Who used the expression 'sex pest'?)

Where do you get the 'no communication regarding boundaries'? According to the OP, her DP 'didn't understand why I didn't like it'. That sounds as if she communicated to him that she didn't like it. His refusal inability to understand may be down to her failure to make her unhappiness clear, but I'd put $100 on it being down to his inability to understand why he wasn't entitled.

So this is why the OP has turned to MN, to see whether she or DH was being unreasonable. You think she was. I think she wasn't, and I think it doesn't matter what the hell anyone else thinks: if she's unhappy with what he does uninvited and he doesn't respect that, then there's a problem they can either work on, or not.

But in this case we are talking about a husband in bed with his wife, grabbing her boob! He shouldn't need verbal or written consent! And how far shall we take that?
Doesn't need consent to put his hand up her nightdress?
Doesn't need consent to pull her knickers down and touch her?
Doesn't need consent to "have sex" with her?

Consent is not a "sometimes" or in "some situations" concept.
Sharing a bad with someone is NOT consent and does not invite unwanted sexual touching.

That's the issue, if you tell him you don't like it does he accept it? If you haven't told him then you should be telling him how you feel, not moaning about him doing it on Mumsnet. - @Lizzie48
Shall we learn to the read the op before we comment? It wasn't that long!! Op clearly said He didn't understand why I didn't like it

So yes, she has told him. And no, it doesn't sound like he does accept it.

If they've been amorous and went upstairs with the intent of having sex then it wouldn't be unexpected DH grabbed my boob in bed last night as I was trying to get to sleep Again, all there in the op.

Eh? My dh walks past n grabs my boobs or smacks my bum when I'm not expecting it,no biggie hes my husband I want him to touch me it would feel strange to me if he didn't - @Sarahh2014. Good for you, Op doesn't like it. That is what this thread about, not what you allow in your relationship. Your consent to what happens in your home is not transferable to op's or anyone else's home.

What about wrapping his arm around my waist? Fine or not? You seriously think a cuddle is the same as groping a breast?

I would consider breasts foreplay. Exactly. Foreplay is a precursor to sex, and so foreplay sexual. Therefore consent is needed. My dh starts with massaging my back, kissing my neck, she doesn't move to my breasts or genitals until he knows that I have consented, and no, in our marriage that does not require signing a stat dec, just a responding action.

Not sure what the big deal is. OP, tell him you didn't like it. - @holdonasecondwaitwhatno
Op DID tell him that she didn't like it. The "big deal" is that he doesn't understand why she didn't like it. I.e he feels he has the right to touch her when he likes, how he likes!

Sleep in single beds. - @Partyfops
Sharing a bed with someone is not consenting.

Personally I just like to know that my DH and I can grope each other whenever we fancy it and equally have the ability to tell the other to bugger off if we're not in the mood. But then again we're simple , old country folk.... - @kittensinmydinner1
Again, good for you & your dh in having YOUR own way of doing this within YOUR relationship. The simple fact of this matter is, is not that op isn't "simple/old folk" is it that for her own reasons, she does not like her dh grabbing her breasts as she is about to go to sleep. How is it so hard to understand that YOUR relationship is NOT the op's? Criticizing her because YOU "like it" in your marriage is rather odd, to be honest. Makes you stupid, as well as simple!

A husband now in bed with his wife must now ask if he can kiss, cuddle, grope, touch her. - @cherryontopp No one has said consent for cuddling/kissing. For grabbing in a sexual way, of course consent needs to be there, sexual grabbing/touching is in NO way the same as kissing/cuddling. Men stopped being able to do to their what they liked in 1992 when rape within marriage became illegal. being in bed with your husband does not = consent for sex, for sexual touching, for foreplay etc.

as long as it's your husband and not a stranger in the street doing it then I think you just need to laugh it off - @Tryingtodoitall
Erm no, there is SO much wrong with what you said, that I can't even start to get my head around your post!! Should she laugh it off if her dh starts to "have sex" with her while she is trying to sleep, because you know, he is not a stranger, so let's just laugh it off, hey?

I know my husband and he knows me - and we know the signals of yeah I'm up for it or no babe Im knackered and going to sleep. - @leftwiththedognow
That's fucking awesome ... FOR YOU. The op however, is NOT you, and she doesn't like it.

Its the first time this has happened - how does he know she would be offended? He cant mind read can he? - @leftwiththedognow
So by your belief, because a man can't mind read, he can do what he likes? So the men I work with could grope me, and because they can't mind read and know that I wouldn't like it I just have to laugh it off/tell them I didn't like it and hope they understand why, and hope they don't do it again!! Yeah, no thanks!!

@leftwiththedognow, not one person has used the word sex pest.
You have come to an agreement within YOUR relationship regarding what you will and won't allow. How that came about is not important. The op does not have the same, she does not want her dh grabbing her when she doesn't want it. Believe it or not, there are ways to initiate sex that do not include grabbing at your partner's breast/genitals, there are ways to show you desire your partner that do not include grabbing at your partner's breast/genitals.

Cannot agree more with differentname

@differentnameforthis When I said that, I didn't realise that she had told her DH she didn't like it and he wouldn't accept that. That puts a complete different complexion on this. I've made it clear that I wouldn't like unwanted sexual touching when trying to sleep.