Being touched intimately without expecting it

[Wtfdoicare]

Does anyone else hate it? DH grabbed my boob in bed last night as I was trying to get to sleep and I reacted crossly. He was joking about after watching something about it on TV (he doesn't have form for this, honestly). He didn't understand why I didn't like it.

I do hate being grabbed unexpectedly by anyone, including my DH, it makes me very uncomfortable tbh. But that's down to me, as I'm coping with memories of childhood trauma. And my DH respects that. That's the issue, if you tell him you don't like it does he accept it? If you haven't told him then you should be telling him how you feel, not moaning about him doing it on Mumsnet.

Who has said anything about verbal/written consent?! Just consent. That’s all. Verbal/written consent isn’t even a thing, it’s ridiculous to keep banging on about how onerous seeking consent is but ignore how onerous being subjected to groping is.

Being groped without your consent is an issue in itself. Why does it only become an issue when a man has been told not to do it? It still feels violating, it still is upsetting because what determines the harm is the fact it was done without consent not the understanding of the situation that the groper may have had.

Things such as his ‘belief in consent’ or ‘not understanding it was wrong’ make very little difference to someone who has been groped.

The difference between being sexually assaulted by a stranger/friend and a husband is that you are less likely to actually deal with it outside the marriage. It is more likely to just lead to marriage breakdown than reports to outside agencies.

So wives/GFs are meant to just suck up the harm because husbands/BFs are unable to have common sense/understand consent.

If he didn't respond well when you asked him not to do it then that's really not on. And my boobs are very sensitive so I would get very upset if my DH grabbed them unexpectedly.

What other illegal things do women have to tell men not to do?

Well said Offred.

Can't believe the posts where people are essentially blaming the OP for not telling her DP she doesn't like it. Shows how insidious this behaviour is that so many women are accepting and even make excuses for it.

I think it depends on the context. If they've been amorous and went upstairs with the intent of having sex then it wouldn't be unexpected. But if the OP went to bed to lie down, and was trying to sleep then that would be entirely inappropriate. If I'm in bed to sleep I'm not looking for sex and sexual overtures from my DH wouldn't be welcome.

(And you may notice that none of the people saying it was wrong have said ‘LTB’ or ‘call the police’. I would want to know exactly why he thought it was OK, as I said in my first post, and what I did re the relationship would be governed by his response. If it was along the lines of what some people have said on here re what husbands are entitled to from my body then I would be looking to leave TBH)

If you are able to tell him to stop because you don't like it, and he listens and learns, that is one thing. He has made a mistake. If you are in fear of telling him to get off it is quite another. If he reacts angrily and tells you it's his way of showing 'affection' you have a problem. It took me years to realise that my husband was sexually assaulting me. There actually was a very good reason why I didn't want to have sex with him. I couldn't put my finger on it. I thought it was normal.

This thread is really making me sad. I understand how this behaviour created distance in my marriage. Made me avoid changing in front of him. It's the assumption the he could grab any part of me when he wanted (even after being in a bad/grumpy mood all day). And then ridicule me as it being my issue and i shouldn't have a problem with it. Saying things like "i dont know what's wrong with you, other women wouldn't react like you". "We're married for gods sake".
For OP, i hope it was a one off and her DH will respect how she feels.

Eh? My dh walks past n grabs my boobs or smacks my bum when I'm not expecting it,no biggie hes my husband I want him to touch me it would feel strange to me if he didn't

I didn't mind my partner touching me when he wasn't if I wasn't in the mood I would simply day no. Some of us like to be desired. I wouldn't need to give him written consent before he does anything as I like abit of spontaneity, if he continues after saying no then that would be a problem (or if it was constant)

Ah yes that old chestnut of ‘men grope women because they are overcome with desire’... 🙄

People who want to be touched have no business commenting TBH as it is completely different to the OP who didn’t want to be touched.

The pure fact that people keep saying ‘written consent’ in an attempt to ridicule other women who want to set boundaries about what happens to their own bodies totally shows up how clueless those commenters are about consent in the first place TBH.

‘Written consent’ isn’t consent... verbal consent isn’t consent... consent is either there or not there. Sometimes there can be misunderstandings re consent, some of those misunderstandings are reasonable and some are based on really toxic values that some people have.

This, however is not a misunderstanding as the OP’s DH didn’t do anything to even attempt to see if the touching was welcome. He just grabbed her and couldn’t understand why she was upset.

Offred

You've said he sexually assaulted her. If that's the case, then how can she stay with him? The LTB is implied.

Also, you keep saying it's obvious and simple consent when half the women on this board have stated that they like their husbands to touch them without explicitly asking. I don't know why you keep ignoring any woman saying what you don't like.

Or back to my first answer, my husband walked up behind me and nuzzled my neck this morning without asking, UNWANTED TOUCHING! CALL THE POLICE!

However, those of you who believe husbands and BFs are entitled to grope and ask questions later may want to rethink that POV at some point as it is an incredibly risky attitude to have.

So what if half the women on here would like it? You aren’t able to consent for the op.

I have not said he sexually assaulted her.

I have said he groped her without her consent.

The women who want to be touched are consenting... I honestly don’t understand why so many people think the fact that your husbands/partners touching you with your consent is even relevant to the OP’s husband touching her without her consent?

IMO what is really really wrong is that so many ppl on this thread think that not only is the OP’s husband allowed to do what he wants with OP’s body but that they are allowed to tell the OP she can’t be upset about it.

Offred

Er, you mentioned sexual assault and groping without consent is sexual assault, right? I'm confused, if he GROPED (not touched, of course, GROPED) her without consent, that's assault.

And I think you are one who is confused. People are raising the issue of implied consent. Often when we are in relationships, we don't ask for consent for every little touch. In a healthy relationship, a touch is an INVITATION, not an imposition. My DH nuzzling my neck WITHOUT ASKING is not evidence that he's a misogynistic groper but a random person on the street or even a friend would be.

The point I'd make is that if you have the right to have any physical boundary respected but you can't expect people to know them upfront! You should just state them yourself - with agency! Like an adult! - instead of saying nothing then trying to demonize your partner like you and OP are doing. If I were triggered by past experiences by people walking up behind me then of course, him snuggling my neck would be violating behavior. If I'd asked him seriously not to do it for any reason, fine. But otherwise, initiating physical contact in the context of a loving relationship is not a crime.

Implied consent isn’t a thing.

And you really can’t see a difference between nuzzling the neck of an awake person and grabbing the breast of a person who is going to sleep?!

And the way consent works is not ‘we’re married so I can touch my wife in any way I like at any time I like’.

No stroking, no cuddling, no build up, just grabbing a breast....

It’s not OP who isn’t behaving like an adult BTW.

Er, it is a thing.

And I'm now confused about your argument. So a DH touching me without consent is fine in one instance but not in the other? But I haven't explicitly consented to either. What about wrapping his arm around my waist? Fine or not?

You are confused about consent not about my argument.

If you consent then you are not unconsenting.

Whether he knows you are consenting is a different matter.

Whether he has done anything to ensure you are consenting is also another matter.

No stroking, no cuddling, no build up, just grabbing a breast....

I would consider breasts foreplay. I can honestly imagine my DH going in to kiss or stroke a boob. Also the OP said he touched her boob, she never explicitly stated that he didn't do anything else simultaneously (kissing, or trying to cuddle).

Not sure what the big deal is. OP, tell him you didn't like it. If he continues to do it, he's violating an explicit boundary. None of this means he's an sexual predator who thinks he now has "rights to her body" or some such nonsense.