How can you tell if you are a really crap unlikeable person ??

[scatterbrain]

Feeling very down at the moment - due to fallout with school-gate "friend" who has suddenly dumped me and organised a get together excluding me this week !

Has made me feel all sad and reflective - and leaves me wondering whether I am actually a deeply flawed person who people on the whole just don't like !!!

How can I tell though ??

I wasn't Miss Popular at school - but I had plenty of friends, lots of friends at uni too - I have three best girl friends all of whom date back between 22 and 32 yrs- who I remain very close to but don't see more that 5 times a year !

I have never been one to make friends easily, although I am an extrover I am also quite shy - and to be honest am not really into these transient friendships that seem to happen between "mums" !

I lost touch with all my antenatal friends after we moved area. Made one new friend - who I now count as one of my best friends at dd's first nursery and then at her school I fell in with this group of mums - our dd's play together so t seemed natural.

Well - all has been well - or so I thought - but one of them stopped speaking to me and giving me really hard looks at school last year, I have no idea why - but I decided to just steer a wide berth as our dd's no longer play together anyway. Well a couple of weeks ago another of the group sent me a really rude email - and then started blanking me ! Then I found out she had arranged a night out without me !

I'm not really that worried about being chucked out of the clique as such - I just wonder why ?

I am older than most of them (I am just 40 and they are mainly about 33) - I WOHM full time and they are mainly SAHMs with younger children - they all text each other a lot and do coffee and lunch etc - I know I don't really fit with them - but I just wonder why ?

It's really brought me down and I feel so low now - on the verge of tears all the time and it's affecting my work ! I feel so sick at school drop off and pick up - I am so totally non confrontational and would never be nasty to someone like that !

I know you won't have the answers - no one else in the group seems to know either - or at least are not letting on !

Sorry to whinge - thanks for reading if you have !

im sure you're lovely scatter - its horrible when you think someone has taken a dislike to you isnt it? tho you say youre not confrontational i would, pleasantly, ask the two who gave you hard looks and the email if youve said or done something to offend them. maybe its all a misunderstanding or one of the others has been stirring things up?

Hmmm, women can be very strange like this. for you.

What did the rude email say? It's not very nice to sned nasty emails though so you're probably better off without these type of friends.

Try not to take it too personally, it is them that have the problem, not you! I know that is easier said than done though and know exactly where you are coming from. I've had similar problems in the past and now stear clear of most women and don't expect anything of them friendship wise. Then I'm never disappointed, only pleasantly surprised when someone turns out to be genuine!

Men are much more loyal friends!

Bless you. i would say the episode with the friend says more about her as a person than it does about you. She can't be a very good friend in the first place to act so cruelly. How mean! And how immature. I would advise you to rise above that one.

As for the other stuff. If you were being compeletely honest with yourself, how much effort would you say you put into your friendships, into keeping things going. Do you accept invitations or tend to find an excuse to refuse? Do you wait to be texted before you reply or do you initiate the text?

I would have to approach the friend who sent the emil and I would ask her why she felt the need to be so rude. i would definately want answers if i knew I had done nothing to upset anyone.

Keep smiling

Agree with Malache too, it might be a misunderstanding? I'd never be brave enough to ask 'friends' the reason, but I guess it couldn't hurt?

I'm sure it is nothing you've done. As you said you have five close friends who have been your friends for years, so you can't be unlikeable!

could it be that their dc have had problems with your dd and they're being frosty to you because of that?

I find the rude email odd. What was all that about?

I think you could just be excluded from things because you're not around that much, not because anyone has a strong dislike for you IYSWIM.

IME, really crap, unlikeable tragic excuses for people the thought that they might be a horrible person never enters their minds.

They live in total ignorance of the fact that they're utter twats.

Seeing as that this concerns you, then, it goes to follow that chances are you aren't a crap, unlikeable person.

Thanks for all the kind words.

The one who sent the email is very fiery, she is Italian and very dramatic - she also thinks the world revolves around her - she asks her friends to call her "Princess X" - can you believe that ?? I never did !

To be honest I was reaching the stage where I was not liking her much, but our girls are very close friends, and I was kind of enjoying being part of the group !

I virtually never text, I am either driving or at work and just don't have time - I am too busy - maybe that's it. But why exclude me from the evening get together ?

Interesting a few of you said to ask them why - coz on another thread everyone said I mustn't as it would be exactly what she wanted ! So I have been maintaining dignified (but internally quaking) silence !

I'm fairly certain it's not an issue with the dd's as her dd was asking mine when she could come and play next just yesterday ! Again - not sure how to handle that ! At the moment I have just said we're very busy so not for a little while !

The rude email was weird - I had another thread about it - let me see if I can link it ..

other thread here

Do you know up until I had ds I made friends quite easily through work etc and was always a popular member of the team. But now I just find that I either have nothing in common with the people that I meet or I find their behaviour childish, bitchy and reminiscent of when I was in junior school. Judging from the amount of threads on MN similar to Scatterbrains I am beginning to wonder if most women are bitches. Rise above it scatterbrain they are obviously complete airheads. I am dreading reaching the school gate age!

scatter, some people are just plain weird!
i agree totally with expat's point - if you even question if you are not nice then you are probably lovely! sorry, not very well constructed sentence!!!
problem with kids is you have to get along with their pals' mums - not always easy. my ds is only a baby - i have all this to look forward to!

scatterbrain - you must be a decent, likeable person otherwise you wouldn't have kept your best friends for so long.

Maybe you could just let them go (while pretending to be completely unaffected).

Tbh, the group sounds so volatile that there'll probably be fallings out within the group before the end of the year.
You may find some of them restart friendships with you. You may not.

Either way, it sounds like their loss.

Scatterbrain, the first thing to remember (and think of your own experience here ) is that popular does not necessarily (or even usually) mean likeable.
think back to school - were the popular people kind and sweet and funny and clever and loveable?
hmm possibly not
I think this kind of behaviour between women (I don't know much about male friendships tbh) is 1. universal and 2. tribal/primal - people stick to their own kind.
I doubt very much that you are a deeply flawed person. maybe you could ask one of your close friends to see if she would be honest about how you are perceived?
feeling insecure about things like this is very normal imo. as for what I would do about it, I would maintain a dignified but friendly silence, keep being friendly and polite with everyone and act as if nothing has happened. if someone mentions the get together, I would probably say oh? I am busy that night anyway.
if the opportunity arose I might ask an individual - as casually as possible - if there was a problem. but I wouldn't do that if there was a risk it might get emotional.
i would remain on good terms with everyone and perhaps just a little aloof. I would certainly not stop the girls playing together, but would invite the child to play (and let your dd play there) without staying or expecting the mother to stay.
is there someone cheering you can speak to in RL?
who can tell you what a lovely person you are?

I think you sound like my sort of person, Scatter, and I'd very much like to be your friend! Perhaps these people are just being insensitive? I would react the same way as you, though. I bet you're feeling all churned up inside and that you hardly slept last night. I get like this every so often when I feel let down or rejected by someone. It takes a few days, but the feelings subside and I start to think well, screw them. Then I feel all empowered (until the next time!). The one who sent you a rude e-mail ... do you mean rude as in she was being rude to you (rather than a rude joke presumably). What the hell was that about? Trouble with e-mail is that it can be misconstrued and it can be very difficult to get your point across.
Chin up - I think you sound fab and you really don't need people like that in your life.

have read the other thread and they sound a bit sad tbh, forget them

Give them a wide berth I reckon. Someone once told me that whatever we do some people will like us and some won't, theres nothing we can do about it so it's best not to get upset. Difficult if your DC are friends but don't let them get to you.

Harpsi, you are so right. So much of this echoes things DD1 (12)was telling me about other girls at school last night. She decided in September that she wouldn't try to be part of any particular clique, nor would she have one best friend, but that she'd try instead to be friends with as many people as possible, so as not to get let down or dragged into situations she doesn't want to be in. Now she's feeling miserable because although she has lots of friends, there is no-one special to invite over or to share pre-disco preparations with. Shame, but I'm sure it will pass. I'm just proud that she's so mature and has such a good understanding of the dynamics of women/girls relationships (primarly due to experience with bullying, unfortunately).

Just read your other thread. Immature bitches. And I think if you're a certain type of person (me!) you'll never feel you fit in properly at the school gate. I have tried being class rep in order to get over this issue, but have instead just made a fool of myself. Can't wait for this school year to be over ...!

The more I read these threads the more I become convinced that around the edges of every playground are some really nice people who arent members of the clique and feel just as left out, perhaps you should try talking to some of them.

We have a similar group of "yummy mummies" in our playground...queen bee does home cosmetics parties and is always perfectly groomed (must be up for hours before the school run) the others are all posh SAHM - I was on the edge of this group for a while but felt that queenie thought I wasnt "good enough"

I now have some really nice friends who lurk around the edges like me and lo & behold one had the same experience with queenie and said "I got the impression she thought she was better than me"

If you have asked what the problem is and they wont tell you then I would just move on, smile politely and leave the ball in their court. If their children are friends with yours then there is no reason they cant come and play - mine are friends with children when I have barely said hello to their parents.

Oh & Princess X sounds like a high maintenance nutter.

Thank you all !!! I feel a bit better now !

Yes RL friends have said I am lovely and should not worry - DH also - but still - it niggles you - you know ?

High maintenance is EXACTLY the right phrase !!

She was very close with a woman from her antenatal class - had been best friends for 5 yrs I guess - and that friend just dropped her last year, she couldn't sleep, cried all the time etc - yet she has still treated me like this ! Funny thing was she demanded "total loyalty" as she put it from all the rest of us and forbade us from seeing this woman again. I wasn't friends with the other one anyway - but a couple of people were. One woman tried seeing the other one behind the Princess's back - and there was the most almghty spat ! She the n promised never to do it again !

So yep - it's her not me !! I will maintain dignified aloofness !

Thank you all !!

Just read this thread and your other thread, IT's very sad. They sound horrible. I don't think I could handle being called a '10yr old bitch' with grace and calm. But I guess being told to ignore those horrible bitches are not the answer to your problems. They are still in your face everyday. I liked your email draft to that 'queen bitch'. If you would consider sending it to her, I think it's well drafted and makes her look like a bully without you sounding malicious at all.
You sound like a person I would like from your op. So I don't think you're a crap unlikeable person at all.

"forbade us from seeing this woman again"

oh that is pathetic, please tell me the other woman didnt lose friends because of this - they are behaving like 13 year olds.

I was going to say to you a while back when I saw your other link "are you sure they were whispering about you and you just werent being a bit paranoid and over sensitive" (mainly because I know I can be a bit like that when I am having a so so day)

TBH, and assuming you havent shagged any of their husbands or attacked a policeman when on a girls night out , this group really dont sound worth the effort, if any of them are they will continue their friendship with you regardless of what the rest do.

I would take extreme umbrage with anyone who told me who I could & couldnt be friends with.

They sounds HORRID. There have always been girls and women like that, and part of the problem is that people always still want them to like them. Grrr. SB, you sound like a nice, normal, sane person who is hurt because of a normal amount of sensitivity. These people clearly have none and also a combined emotional age of about 5. You don't need them - they sound like nasty people and you don't want to jump to this woman's tune. Stand up to her, but don't try to get back in her nasty little clique. It's too much like silly playground stuff. Worthwhile friends don't do that.

Hmmm - she did, she stopped seeing the other woman and they were very very close friends by then.

In fact a funny thing happened - Mums night out at Xmas - me and the other ladies in "my" ex group were sitting at the table eating starters - and this other "ex-friend" of the Princess bounds over from nowhere and hugs the other friend - haveing not noticed Princess sitting there with her back to her ! Nice friend gets ups and steers the ex friend away from table and has a short chat with her.

Cue Princess bursting into tears and running to the toilets !! Cue nice friend running after her ! 20 mins later - dinner sitting cold on table - they both return tear stained and miserable - and Princess leaves early in dramatic fashion !

Fairly well ruined the evening !

Beggars belief doesn't it ?

Dear God! That woman is truely the most stupid creature I have heard of since I was at school