Would you stay with a partner accused of rape?

[Scrapper142]

Inspired by news and personal experience, interested to know, would you stay and if you have experienced it, did stay or get out?

Ed Westwicks gf has been defending him and said she believes he's innocent. Although postponed getting engaged.

The man who raped me is happily in a new relationship. It's something I don't tend to think about, but his name was tagged in a fb post on my feed his week and in a moment of weakness I looked. There was a picture of his gf blissfully happy.

I just wonder how she stays with him (assuming she knows). I'm sure if she has been told it's an edited and manipluated version. But I expect she is completely unaware and unaware of the reality of the man she is sharing her life with. It makes me so sad for her and then so fucking angry (that he can do this).

It's strange as I feel connected to this complete stranger, I know it's not my problem but I can't help but worry about her. Then I think she'd probably never want to hear or accept the truth anyway?!?!

I'm not talking about my friend in this context, these are my opinions on the legal system/ media in general ie Rebecca Leighton (Stepping Hill Hospital) Sir Cliff Richard (BBC), Christopher Jefferies (Joanna Yeates/ Bristol Murder).

Have you actually been involved with a rape accusation?

It is not at all normal for the newspapers to even become aware that someone has even been arrested (unless they are a public figure). If someone is charged it means the cps believe the evidence is very strong to support conviction. At that point there are public interest reasons to allow reporting.

The legal system and the media are two completely different entities.

It's not the legal system's fault that the media like to splash salacious sex stories all over the papers before there's any outcome.

The issue of the quality of reporting on CJ is a different one to the issue of presumed anonymity.

Indeed - who's judging your friend over this? His life hasn't been destroyed by it. He could, I'm sure, find out what records the police hold about him at least in terms of what would come up on a crb check if that was important to him. Doesn't sound like the people around him are judging.

Do we have the same response when someone is accused of mugging - the victim mustbe lying unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it happened?

Mustbemad - in those cases, it is usually the sheer volume of victims coming forward with large amounts of corroboration from other victims in the details of their accounts. In Savile's case, a few victims told police he had the names and phone numbers of his victims written all over the walls of his old flat - the police went there, stripped the wallpaper and found exactly what they'd said. Victims will describe phrases used to groom them, maybe even describe features of the assailant's body and genitalia. One of these guys also wrote a letter to his victim which was used in court.

In fairness, a lot of those convicted were found guilty of historic child sex offences, where consent wasn't legally possible. Had they been adults, I imagine you'd have a different situation. Look at the disgrace that was the Ched Evans case, or Brock Turner. Don't see their lives as ruined but their victims lives are.

And crappy tabloid reporting re public figures doesn’t change the fact that when someone is a public figure there are public interest reasons for reporting re arrest/investigation.

It is not at all normal for the newspapers to even become aware that someone has even been arrested (unless they are a public figure).

But even on a local level (Gossip etc.) it can be massively damaging.

The CPS is not a trial by jury, they just look at whether or not there is enough evidence to proceed.

Obviously a balance has to be achieved, but the damage of a false accusation, is huge, and these people are very much victims too.

Gossip isn’t covered by reporting restrictions or anonymity for the most part...

There will always be gossip. I know someone who is friends with the wife of a very high profile (locally) murderer. I know a lot of things that the prison he is in don’t know and that the police probably don’t know. If he had had anonymity then I would still know those things and all the people where we live would probably know who had been sent down for the murder. Everyone would gossip.

Again that is a different issue to reporting and anonymity.

And can I bring you back to the point that you don’t really know at all whether your friend has even been falsely accused TBF.

You know he is carefully curating people’s perceptions about it 15 years on but you don’t know whether that is because he was damaged by a false accusation or because he had a rather lucky escape re a true report.

The standards for bringing charges are pretty robust BTW

think there should be anonymity for the accused (not just rape but murders) as standard, since our legal system is supposedly built on the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, with maybe a court application process for very specific and exceptional cases where naming would be necessary to gather evidence/ identify further victims (ie Jimmy Saville)

No, our legal system is not 'built on' innocent until proven guilty as several posters have taken time to explain. It's an important legal concept that applies to criminal trials and human rights. However, civil cases do not have such a high burden of proof and case are decided on the balance of probabilities.

As regards anonymity - first, are you aware that police do not want anonymity for suspects as sex offences are often, even usually, repeat offences and publicising a suspect generally brings more victims/witnesses forwards? Further, that sex offence cases have much greater chance of conviction with multiple complainants - so it's vital to have as many as possible?

Second, are you aware the defence lawyers do not want anonymity for their clients in case their special status prejudices the jury against them? Why should a sex crime defendant get special dispensation that a murder defendant does not? How is that fair among defendants.

Third, have you considered that it will send the message to women that they are unreliable on sex crimes that the defendant has had to be anonymised? On top of the fact that women are routinely disbelieved anyway.

The problem is not that suspects and defendants are named - it actually happens only rarely. The problem is what the press do with the information. Better regulation of the press on reporting sex offences is the answer.

I'm unsure why you keep repeating this, as if anyone isn't agreeing with you already? Of course they're victims, of course it's horrendous. But the argument is that we have to accept huge numbers of women suffering for life because of the small proportion of false accusations is uncomfortable for many here who are legitimate victims, many of whom have never even accused those who are guilty, let alone those who aren't.

and your life is changed/ ruined forever

This just isn't true, Eryri. Even some (too many) men who have been convicted of rape still get job offers, etc, and their victims get slated as slags and liars, even when as we all know the burden of proof required to get a rape conviction is really, really high, and most rapists get away with it.

Indeed - who's judging your friend over this? His life hasn't been destroyed by it. He could, I'm sure, find out what records the police hold about him at least in terms of what would come up on a crb check if that was important to him. Doesn't sound like the people around him are judging.

He could for £10 as I said.

By contrast, one of my best friend's was violently raped by a stranger when she was 21 - suffered PTSD, developed anorexia, and was unable to have a sexual relationship with a man for the entire of her 20s.

Obviously a balance has to be achieved, but the damage of a false accusation, is huge, and these people are very much victims too.

You sound ignorant naive as to the impact of sex crimes.

Must admit Tammy I don't know much about Ched Evans or Brock Turner (names don't ring bells) but what you've said i'm definitely off to look!

I am with the majority here; it tends to be the victims that suffer more than the rapists. Let's face it, rapists do minimal time & then are released. How long does it take a victim to get their life on track, if they do at all?

Definitely look them up - it's eye opening. Ched Evans is a footballer, Brock Turner an American uni student who was convicted of rape and got six months because of his promising swimming career (and the fact he was a wealthy white man, obviously). The statement his father and mother submitted was really the cherry on top of that disgusting case.

There was a case a while ago where a very wealthy guy claimed literally that he had tripped and his penis had accidentally entered a woman. He got away with it.

The system is a mess.

Just in case you thought I was kidding:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/millionaire-ehsan-abdulaziz-who-said-he-accidentally-tripped-and-penetrated-teen-is-cleared-of-rape-a6774946.html

OMG 😱 Now you go into it vaguely remember the footballer one.

Have any of you watched 'Daisy & Audrie' on Netflix? That's another example of having connections getting you off the hook

Yeah that newspaper article is disgusting, how did he get away with that ffs! 'I tripped & fell' wonder if we could use that as an excuse for cutting his dick off with a handsaw

Even when they find DNA inside a victim, that's still not enough if you can afford good representation.

Yep, money & contacts talk

There’s a troubling campus culture of sexual abuse in the USA that is perpetuated by this ‘oh the poor promising boy musntvhave his future spoiled by a silly girl’ thing.

There was one a while back where there was actually cellphone footage of the attack on a clearly passed out young woman and footage of the perpetrators boasting about it. If you google Steubenville you will read all about it. They both received very light sentences and that only after an outcry. Several adults were also charged with covering it up to protect the boys.

@TammySwansonTwo that is actually ridiculous!!! I imagine that the way he explains that shit is similar to the little Britain sketch!! Attached. That poor girl. I feel sick.