DH says I am a minion to this woman

[Salvatoreseraphino]

I'm 35, currently a SAHM with 4 DC (all under 6.)

Before I had DC I used to work for a charity run by a very strong, successful woman who I admire very much. She is nearly 70, unmarried, with grown up children of her own.

I got to know her (will call her A) quite well but not as a close friend, just from work. She also took me on from university and I was there my whole working life.

Since having DC and having to stop work I have kept in contact with her and still go to work-related events and deal with work-related issues when I have the time. The charity and the people in it still constitute the main part of my social life, and free time (away from the DC and DH,) as I don't see it as just a job that I should let go of. The charity world is not like that.

Sometimes when they need me I do end up going back into work mode and resuming my job sometimes. And on some level I want it, but like to be able to dip in and out and take on my old role when I have time and leave it when I don't. Obviously I don't get paid for this, or for the hours I put in to help, as I don't officially work there anymore.

Unlike other sectors there is always a great need to do more, even if the basics are met, so even though I have been officially replaced in my job by someone else , there is still stuff that needs to be done.

For me working for the charity, even on a voluntary basis is important for those it benefits, and it has loads of perks, it's incredibly interesting, means I get to meet lots of interesting people too. And I know it so well - I worked there since university, so 15 years. Also because A runs it, she is very successful and inspiring and I have had lots of opportunities through the charity that I have not been able to have in other parts of life, especially as a mother of 4 where my daily life is quite monotonous.

A also asks me to give advice to her friends regarding my specialist area ( law), so I do give a lot of advice for free, or find myself spending a whole afternoon with a different charity run by another friend of A's giving them free advice - which I don't mind and it allows me to flex my intellect as the children grow up.

DH says that A condescends me, takes advantage of my willingness to help, and says that i am deferent and compliant around her. He says that in return she now gets the role I was previously doing, for free, for her friends as well, and does not pay me. And worst of all, he says, she does not even treat me like her friend after all these years. He says she treats me as staff, and that I delude myself thinking I am her friend, or that she and I are equals and she needs me. And that I should have some respect for myself and live a more realistic life with the DC and him and not go to any more events or work for free.

I am very confused about this because I do know that I am very drawn to older women because my DM died when I was a toddler. I am always searching for the elusive mother figure and maybe I have attached something maternal to A who is a very strong, admirable, successful older woman, who I feel has to some extent taken me under her wing. I have done this in the past with other older women, but I don't necessarily see it as a problem for me.

If I am very honest with myself, there is part of me, I think, which would quite like to be more of her friend than she allows, perhaps talk about more general things rather than work and know each other's lives better, or her to know my DC better, or to have more of a "mother/daughter" dynamic after all these years,for eg I have never been invited for dinner at her house and she has dinner parties all the time. I have invited her to mine but she always declines, mainly because of geography and because she is busy. But I don't waste time mulling over this, or resenting it not happening or pushing to make it happen. And I am quite happy with my situation, and the level at which A regards me. DH would argue that I wait like a little minion to be called or asked to help and then I drop everything in the hope of approval from "mummy."

To be even more honest, I do think some of my self esteem rests in being needed by her or performing a function for her. There is something about the relationship that makes me feel secure. DH always knows when I receive an email from her as he says my face "lights up." I'm aware that sounds a bit weirdly romantic, but it's not. And if it's not causing me any harm, surely it is okay?

My loyalty and voluntary work for her does not get in the way of family life or caring for the DC. DH says it Has an impact on the family because I am giving my time and not getting anything back. Not even friendship. But isn't that what charity work is anyway? And if I enjoy it and being around thsee people, surely that would be like a hobbie anyway?

Can anyone relate? What do you think? Do I sound crazy?

I have to agree with all the posters who raise questions about your DH's motivation here. I said I think he has a point, but I found his expression disrespectful and troubling. I particularly find his idea that your work is taking you away from 'family time' very concerning.

I've heard it many times before from men who want a total SAHM who is not working - paid or voluntary.

I should have some respect for myself and live a more realistic life with the DC and him and not go to any more events or work for free.

Realistic life is with the DC and him? You can't have anything for yourself? Voluntary work is extremely beneficial for mothers as it gives them something of value away from family. He clearly does not understand the importance of women keeping a foot in the workplace as I said above, and also to keeping their skills & confidence in the workplace up to scratch.

Who's he to say you shouldn't go to events or work for free? And who's he to say you're not getting anything back - you're getting masses back in terms of satisfaction.

It seems like he wants you to be his minion, and possibly feels he's in competition with this woman for your attention.

I think you should carry on doing exactly what you're doing - but be more forthright about billing for your time etc. I also think you need to accept that this woman isn't interested in a social relationship.

She’s not quite what you want her to be and your husband is right

I don't agree with this at all. I would be wary of posters siding wholeheartedly with DH without questioning his perspective.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think you should try and find a role on the board of a charity to "formalise" the voluntary work you're doing.

Your DH is right to a certain degree, she's not your friend.

Have you considered asking her to be your mentor? You clearly admire her and what she's achieved and I'm a bit concerned she's using you a little. If you re-shape your roles a little then you won't lose contact with her. And a good mentor will keep you connected to their network. Ask her to help you find a charity that needs a board member with your specialist skills.

In a few years if/when you're ready to start paid work again. Then having the board title on your CV will help.

I hope this makes sense.

Good luck

This woman is not your friend. I have worked in a large legal firm and later on, charities and the same politics and taking advantage of staff was prevalent in both. I have met numerous people who went to work in charitable organisations and left very disappointed.

At the legal firm, I worked for a senior partner. He was an odd man, who drove staff hard and expected a great deal for the salary he was paying. However, I knew he was not my friend, whether he gave me nice gifts etc which he occasionally did. I watched a new manager in the firm hang around in his room, have meetings etc and I knew it would end in recrimination because she had made the mistake of believing he was her friend. They had a huge fall out, don't know why, but she asked to meet with me and asked me how on earth I got on with him. I said I didn't. He was my employer plain and simple and she had made the mistake of thinking it was more.

If you wish to give pro bono advice, could you not offer this as a paid for service op? You don't need A to call you as though she is doing you a favour, do you?

I felt really sad reading that although she gave dinner parties, you were never invited and your own kind offers were declined. She is telling you quite clearly that she sees you as an employee only.

Don't allow her to dictate your happiness. I think your dh is right and he has only said this because he is upset to see you used in this way.

Move away from her and the organisation op. I know it has formed a large part of your working life but it is time to let go and move on.

As for references for the work you have done for her charity and the others, detailing the work done and the service provided. Ask if they are willing to allow their comments to be used as testimonials.

Set yourself up as a consultant using these testimonials / references to launch your business.

Arrange a meeting with A, outlining your plans and ask if she would be willing to recommend you to her contacts. Explain that you have been motivated to do this based on the clear need there is in her sector for qualified, experienced resource to be available to step in / advise / work when required but not required to be paid full time by the charity. Also worth dropping in that you look forward to continuing to be A's first point of contact for this type of work.

And then when she next asks, you can quote your charge out rate and send a terms of reference agreement to be signed in advance of beginning the next piece of work.

You need a mentor to sit on your shoulder and remind you that you should be paid for this work and to gently but firmly change the balance of power in this relationship. It sounds like the perfect blend of part time work that you can fit in round your children and grow as your available time changes and you can adapt your home life as required to grow this business.

Should have said... Ask for references...

Setting yourself up as a consultant or freelancer is s great idea

this woman is undoubtedly taking advantage so i'd stop doing favours for her friends. set up your own business and tell her what you'd charge if she asks. i think she's gotten used to you cheerfully picking up the slack and has gotten into the habit of expecting it. it would be good if you could start charging for your work again. however you spin it, the taking advantage has got to stop.

i think that while you are so clearly desperate to do anything for her, the prospect of a friendship with her is virtually non-existent. only when she starts to see you closer to an equal will you have any chance, and that can only happen when you force her to respect your time.

i think your dh is concerned, and is right to be concerned. i don't think you should stop doing this work, i think you should get paid for it!

This is complicated. You’re getting a lot out of this arrangement: using your brain, getting the odd break from the intensity of being a SAHM to 4 under 6, the sense of achievement of a job done that stays done (a rarity for a SAHM), the social aspects of work. But you could get that from other voluntary work or even freelancing. The biggie here is the mother-figure. I’m reading that it’s not really a friendship that you need from her. And perhaps that’s what’s ultimately unfulfilling because she’s not really providing you with any mothering. How balanced is your relationship? Do you feel ok saying no?
I’m a bit concerned that your DH wants, as others have said, you to focus this energy on him and the children, rather than another work-related role.
I’m wondering whether therapy to talk about your mother/need for a mother-figure might be helpful?

I think the charity work is a red herring here; this is about the unhealthy dynamic at play with your relationship with A. I think your husband is right and although his wording is harsh, I wonder how many times over the 15 years he has tried to talk to you about this? I agree that she is using you for your services but also keeping you at arm's length as she senses how keen you are to have a deeper relationship with her and she doesn't want that.

You say it's not harming anyone and you're right but you have to consider, how would you feel if one day, for whatever reason, she dropped you? Given how emotionally invested you are in her, how would your mental health cope with the sudden ending of the relationship? I think you need to take steps, however small initially, to extricate yourself from this situation.

I'm surprised at the number of posters who think it is acceptable for a man to demean his wife if they agree with the point he is making. It's not OK. It's controlling. No one gains more self respect by being put down.

Reading through all the comments, another thought came to me. How is your time accounted for by the charity? In the volunteer work I do, record keeping is extremely important to the institution. Do they track and acknowledge how much you are doing?

I also think that starting your own business as a consultant and billing a fare wage, using A for references is a great idea. I also think that you should check into liability insurance to protect yourself legally, and keep careful records. As one poster pointed out, you are still liable for advice you give, even if you don't get paid for it.

Good luck!

I was posting earlier as someone who works in this sector, but as someone who has a husband (!) who might be similar - my DH always complained if I did anything for free, did any volunteering etc., as (a) he wanted me to earn money for him and (b) he wanted any free time spent doing housework.

He refused to develop any understanding of the voluntary sector and how people used volunteering (both volunteers and charities) so all he could see was pound signs and my asking him to put the vacuum round. But hey, my H is a lazy selfish arse, and OP's DH might be genuinely concerned for her. Unless she comes back who knows?!

That was rather my point above, it does smack of that.

It's a sad fact that life has many users ... and this old lady is one of them.

It's incredibly annoying to see your husband/wife/brother/sister etc being used and they can't see it themselves.

My Dsis had an argument with her DH over this .... her BIL is a user, but her DH seeks his approval so much. Ive seen it myself. It's really pitiful, like a bone being thrown and he goes running.

It's like he jumps and gets excited when his DB phones ... and it's always to ask for a favour. Never just how are you.

Sometimes strong language is needed to hit home.

This old lady! Really? What has her age to do with it?

This thread has resonated with me as I experienced something similar to your feelings for A.

In my first professional job I developed huge feelings of admiration for my mentor C. She was professional, highly effective and popular, but in my eyes, C could literally do no wrong - it was almost as if she glowed! It wasn't so much that I wanted to be her friend, I just wanted her approval. Time moved on, things changed but I found it hard to adjust and eventually it all ended in tears - mine, of course.

It is only by reading your thread today that I have joined the dots and made the connection with my own parental loss, which was happening at the same time :(.

Your DH's reaction is pointing out, albeit clumsily, that something is out of kilter in your relationship. I would take steps to proactively re-shape your relationship with A, before something happens that has wider and more serious repercussions.

@Maybedoctor - yes, me too. And then on, I am conscious of this and treat important mentor relationships with care and caution, to avoid the tears, and repurcussions, whilst still benefitting from genuinely caring mentoring. But i just wanted to say that you are not alone in find resonance with certain aspects of the OP.

This old lady! Really? What has her age to do with it

Everything. The op wouldn't be looking for a mother figure in a younger woman or a woman her own age.

Describing a 70 year old woman who is a 'strong successful woman' and who is running a charity as an 'old lady' could be construed as offensive and ageist.

Does she get paid for the work she does? Or does she do it for free, like she expects you to?

She is your friend or colleague and if she is using you it is for a cause you believe it.

If you allow your dp's views to colour your feelings, I'm afraid you risk being stuck at home.

I'll sure your dp is lovely but I am extremely suspicious for partners who point out the faults of their mate's friends. My dd had a bf like that and ended up friendless

She may be filling a psychological need, but withdrawing won't mean that need goes away.

Why not talk it through with a professional? In many ways it enables you to keep up to date whilst looking after the children, but the bit about wanting to be her friend could maybe be addressed and may be you could put more focus on finding people who meet your needs and DO want to be your friend.

I think your DH could be right. But so what if he is? You are happy in what you do. If it's not impacting negatively on your family life I don't see why you should stop. You'd likely be unhappy if you did then your DH will berate you about that too

Wow this is a complex one.

My opinion based in what you have said is that this woman is taking advantage. She isnt your friend. She has made that clear.

Part of me thinks, so what if you are happy. But part of me thinks hanging round hoping if you do enough, a person will become what you want them to is damaging.

I can't help wonder about your dh. I have to admit. If dh was a sahp and I was working and he was spending loads of time (i can only assume its loads because the Op wont say) doing stuff for someone, in the desperate hope they will become friends, when he could be spending the same time freelancing and taking off some financial burden off me, it would piss me off.

Especially if I suspected it would eventually end badly, because that person was never going to give him the relationship he wanted off them.

Bruce I agree. I'd also think it could be damaging to the OP's self esteem ultimately when it becomes too obvious to ignore.

The people who are saying it doesn't matter if the husband is right and A is using her, as long as she is happy, are being very simplistic and viewing this very superficially.

People have been very quick to judge the husband and equally quick to excuse A when I think he has just been stating the obvious.