DH says I am a minion to this woman

[Salvatoreseraphino]

I'm 35, currently a SAHM with 4 DC (all under 6.)

Before I had DC I used to work for a charity run by a very strong, successful woman who I admire very much. She is nearly 70, unmarried, with grown up children of her own.

I got to know her (will call her A) quite well but not as a close friend, just from work. She also took me on from university and I was there my whole working life.

Since having DC and having to stop work I have kept in contact with her and still go to work-related events and deal with work-related issues when I have the time. The charity and the people in it still constitute the main part of my social life, and free time (away from the DC and DH,) as I don't see it as just a job that I should let go of. The charity world is not like that.

Sometimes when they need me I do end up going back into work mode and resuming my job sometimes. And on some level I want it, but like to be able to dip in and out and take on my old role when I have time and leave it when I don't. Obviously I don't get paid for this, or for the hours I put in to help, as I don't officially work there anymore.

Unlike other sectors there is always a great need to do more, even if the basics are met, so even though I have been officially replaced in my job by someone else , there is still stuff that needs to be done.

For me working for the charity, even on a voluntary basis is important for those it benefits, and it has loads of perks, it's incredibly interesting, means I get to meet lots of interesting people too. And I know it so well - I worked there since university, so 15 years. Also because A runs it, she is very successful and inspiring and I have had lots of opportunities through the charity that I have not been able to have in other parts of life, especially as a mother of 4 where my daily life is quite monotonous.

A also asks me to give advice to her friends regarding my specialist area ( law), so I do give a lot of advice for free, or find myself spending a whole afternoon with a different charity run by another friend of A's giving them free advice - which I don't mind and it allows me to flex my intellect as the children grow up.

DH says that A condescends me, takes advantage of my willingness to help, and says that i am deferent and compliant around her. He says that in return she now gets the role I was previously doing, for free, for her friends as well, and does not pay me. And worst of all, he says, she does not even treat me like her friend after all these years. He says she treats me as staff, and that I delude myself thinking I am her friend, or that she and I are equals and she needs me. And that I should have some respect for myself and live a more realistic life with the DC and him and not go to any more events or work for free.

I am very confused about this because I do know that I am very drawn to older women because my DM died when I was a toddler. I am always searching for the elusive mother figure and maybe I have attached something maternal to A who is a very strong, admirable, successful older woman, who I feel has to some extent taken me under her wing. I have done this in the past with other older women, but I don't necessarily see it as a problem for me.

If I am very honest with myself, there is part of me, I think, which would quite like to be more of her friend than she allows, perhaps talk about more general things rather than work and know each other's lives better, or her to know my DC better, or to have more of a "mother/daughter" dynamic after all these years,for eg I have never been invited for dinner at her house and she has dinner parties all the time. I have invited her to mine but she always declines, mainly because of geography and because she is busy. But I don't waste time mulling over this, or resenting it not happening or pushing to make it happen. And I am quite happy with my situation, and the level at which A regards me. DH would argue that I wait like a little minion to be called or asked to help and then I drop everything in the hope of approval from "mummy."

To be even more honest, I do think some of my self esteem rests in being needed by her or performing a function for her. There is something about the relationship that makes me feel secure. DH always knows when I receive an email from her as he says my face "lights up." I'm aware that sounds a bit weirdly romantic, but it's not. And if it's not causing me any harm, surely it is okay?

My loyalty and voluntary work for her does not get in the way of family life or caring for the DC. DH says it Has an impact on the family because I am giving my time and not getting anything back. Not even friendship. But isn't that what charity work is anyway? And if I enjoy it and being around thsee people, surely that would be like a hobbie anyway?

Can anyone relate? What do you think? Do I sound crazy?

[Ceto]

It's clearly not true that you are giving your time and not getting anything back, because you are getting enjoyment out of this, in addition to a chance to keep work-based skills up to date and, I suspect, the sense of self-worth that can get buried when your needs have to be subsumed to those of four children. When I was off work for a time when my oldest was a baby, I became desperate for something that wasn't looking after babies and took on voluntary work, and I suspect many women do the same. If you do this while the children are at school or after they go to bed, you aren't taking time away from the family, and the odd evening out at a fundraiser is hardly the end of the world.

[Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh]

It's clearly not true that you are giving your time and not getting anything back, because you are getting enjoyment out of this, in addition to a chance to keep work-based skills up to date and, I suspect, the sense of self-worth that can get buried when your needs have to be subsumed to those of four children

Whilst this is true, it's not her motivation for doing it. Her motivation is the hope of developing a closer 'maternal' relationship with A. It's not equal.

This dynamic is exactly why we don't encourage romantic relationships between lecturers/students; bosses/employees; mentors/mentees; counsellors/clients. It's the power dynamic that is damaging here, not time away from the family.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Not all of the children are at school.

Op you need to be careful to not let this obsession with having a mother figure in your life take over and your own children end up not getting the attention from their own mother.

There is nothing wrong with putting dc into childcare if you are working or just need a break it is something else when you are doing it because someone else wishes you to drop everything and work for free.

No wonder dh is annoyed.. He is working so you can stay at home and look after children and you are putting them in childcare to run after another woman.

[MudCity]

I think you could ask her whether payment for the work you do is possible....this may help clarify your role and ensure you are not being 'used'? That said, if you are happy to do it for free then that's great but perhaps be boundaried in the amount you take on or the type of work you do. I say this because over-commitment can lead to resentment in the long-term if you feel you are not getting out of it what you need (ie her friendship).

The friendship thing is unlikely to happen. Does she keep work separate from the rest of her life? Many people compartmentalise like that....it doesn't mean she doesn't respect and value you (she clearly does!) but it does mean she wouldn't think to invite you to her home or to meet socially. Please don't give so much of yourself in the hope that this will change....it won't. Try to cultivate other friendships (non-work related) as devoting too much energy to one person will only end in disappointment.

Good luck to you!

[Ploppie4]

I know lots of women and men who do voluntary work and it is an important contribution to society. It also keeps you in the work loop while being a SAHP yet fits completely around your family commitments.

I wonder if your DH only values paid work? Or if he is jealous of the joy and positive social interactions you get from charity work or the fact that you could easily step back into your old job. Which is empowering to you.

[Ploppie4]

You could say to her that you are going to be looking for part time work soon

[Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh]

Blimey. It's not about the work being unpaid.

It's about the unhealthy dynamic.

That's what her husband is concerned about. That's why he's calling her A's 'minion'. No, not a respectful term, but he's trying to highlight the dynamic. And I think he's right.

He doesn't have to be the baddy because he's the man. Some men love their wives (I'm led to believe).

[Sparkletastic]

Your DH sounds jealous. I suspect he wants to eliminate any competition for your time. A sounds like a strong professional mentor but clearly has no desire to be more than that for you. Would you like to return to the charity sector, or that charity in particular, at some point? If so she could be a very useful contact, and maintaining your professional skills would be precisely the correct course of action.

[Dozer]

“DH is working so you can stay at home and look after children”.

Or he is getting to be a parent AND retain a well paid job and work the hours he wishes because OP is AH.

I do think there are some Qs about the DH here, although I can understand his concern about the amount of volunteering you’re doing (which sounds demanding and inconvenient) and the dynamic with your “employer”. If you’re even slightly unsure of his respect for you and attitudes about you being AH and equality it’d be best to seek paid WoH.

[Shayelle]

You sound like a lovely kind highly intelligent woman. I think if you are happy with the situation, as long as youre not feeling ‘used’, then continue, as you are getting something out of it, you're using that intelligent law brain!! You sound fab

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I think dh is a bit concerned about the ops face lighting up when she receives an email from A.

Just a pov. When I was reading your op initially, I understand you are looking for a mother figure, but from my reading of it, it came across as you wanting a closer relationship than was on offer and I wonder if A keeps you at arms length and at the same time uses you because she thinks you are besotted with her.

[tccat]

If this woman wasn't working for the charity anymore would your level of commitment be the same?
I worked for a charity and have been made redundant, I still go in and volunteer when I can as I loved the job and the people there
Look at your motivation for doing all this, if you genuinely enjoy the work and are happy to help then it's all good

[W0rriedMum]

I agree with your husband, who I imagine has had to be forceful in his language for you to take him seriously.

Volunteering - helping out on your terms at pre-arranged hours, expecting nothing in return.

Your case - helping out on A's terms when she wants the help, giving more than you can to the cause because you want to be friends with A.

Having you advise her friends is so disrespectful. Imagine what she said to them: X is at home with no job and she will do anything for me. I'll ask her to advise you for free and she will.

It's like anything - people don't value what is free as much as paid.. Ask any gardener/chef/doctor/architect here on MN!

[SandyY2K]

@W0rriedMum

Your post is spot on IMO.

Especially....

I agree with your husband, who I imagine has had to be forceful in his language for you to take him seriously.

Having you advise her friends is so disrespectful. Imagine what she said to them: X is at home with no job and she will do anything for me. I'll ask her to advise you for free and she will.

^^ This is nothing to do with charity work.

I bet the minute you tell her you're setting up on a freelance basis and charging £X p/h ... she'll cut you off.

[Cupoteap]

Have you ever said no to her?

[Pibplob]

Could you ask to be paid as self employed? Or go back part time as it sounds like you're working part time hours and managing? Then you would be doing what you love and getting paid for it too.

[Inertia]

What would be the comeback if someone acted on your legal advice and things didn't work out as planned - could they sue you? Do you maintain some kind of professional coverage to guard against that, or are you actually putting your family 's financial security at risk?

It sounds like you are being taken advantage of - helping the charity is one thing, being farmed out to A's friends is another story. Without wanting to be harsh, it's heartbreaking to lose your mother but A can't replace her. She does see you as staff- free staff at that.

Doing voluntary work for a good cause is a great thing to do - but when you volunteer, the manager doesn't get to offer your services for free to their tight-arsed friends.

[Impostress99]

Op here is my advice -

1. Your need for a mother figure is very strong and very very real. This is undeniably true. You need to find a way of respecting this, and being very very kind to yourself. This means not putting yourself in positions where you can be hurt because of this very need. Please know that I entirely see and believe how strong and impactful this is.

1. As a SAHM to small children the second suggestion must be hard. But here is my advice - put in your all into building a career for yourself with all the passions and talents you have. Go for it with baby steps but have a plan. See your talents and ambitions take you to becoming successful professionally. Independent of A. Think about this. If a talented but exhausted and a bit lost young woman (35 is young) asked you for advice and you spotted real merit in her - would you not advice her to go for it? To make a set of plans for the next 5 years and to see her work her way up to what she can truly achieve? Then do it. Focus on these plans. Focus on the stellar things you can achieve with the very talents and curiosity you speak of in that world. Along the way you WILL inspire others. Others, even young women, will look up to you. It is not too late or too tiring. Begin with pen and paper and a plan.

Then - when professional success arrives - and you find a real legitimacy for your many talents in your field - the lost little girl within will still want a mum yes, but she will wake up so proud of what she has achieved and how inspiring she is, and over time, through her own successes, her vulnerabilities will fade away.

Believe me. You can PM me if you wish to. The story I’ve told above is very similar to my own except that - in regard to point 2 above - I was always very very focused on my work and constantly over achieving. In some strange way that really helped to cope with the strength of Point 1 above.

[SciFiFan2015]

I’m a fundraiser and work for a charity. Don’t give your time for free - it means you are hiding the true costs of running the charity. Core costs are important but incredibly difficult to raise funds for (no donor wants to pay for the staff toilet paper, lighting or heating!). By giving your time and considerable expertise at no cost your are seriously undermining the budget.
If you moved away suddenly or something else kept you away - WHO would do what you do?
If you wish to volunteer formally do so - but make sure your volunteering hours are calculated and have a value attached at least the fundraiser can use that for any matches funding applications.

[FantasticButtocks]

Do you feel your DH is saying all this out of concern for you, wanting to protect you in some way from being hurt or used?

Or is he saying it out of resentment for the time you spend on A and her charity, and jealousy about your 'lighting up' when she contacts you?

Because those are two very different attitudes, and it matter which one it is.

Could you, when she next asks for a favour, say to her "yes, I'm happy to do this but I am now going to have to start charging for this work, and my freelance rate is £x, do you still want me to do it?"

[MiniAlphaBravo]

Can you tell A that you would like to continue giving advice but on a consultancy basis and therefore need to be paid? You are undermining those who do paid work by working for nothing. This allows you to enjoy the work but to benefit from it financially and therefore it benefits your family also. If A is a friend I think she should agree to this.

[MyBabyIsAWerewolfAhwooooo]

live a more realistic life with the DC and him and not go to any more events or work for free

So whilst I agree about not wanting to be exploited etc what stuck with me was this comment.
What is this more realistic life? Housework and cooking his dinner and serving your family and never going out?

[KungFuEric]

How many hours a week are you working for her? Honestly

[elevenclips]

I'm very sorry for the loss of your mum when you were a toddler. You do seek this woman's maternal approval and I think that is possibly the root of the problem here. A mother would have given you the approval by now, many times over and would not use you like this.

She is hugely taking advantage of you and it's not your fault - you sound thoroughly decent and kind. However, from her perspective she is completely taking the piss and critically she knows this. As with all piss takers, their requests continue until you put a stop to it. Otherwise why would she stop? I am kind of disgusted by how she is usung you and wonder if you can see that if your mother were alive today and aged about 65, she might point this out to you. Your husband has done this but he has been a bit heavy handed with his use of language.

At the very least you should be on some sort of retainer. If you want to continue with the charity as you are, you should email woman and ask her to put you on a retainer. Average out the value of the work you did for the last year, discuss it with your husband (because you are prone to undervaluing yourself) and send her a figure per month that she needs to pay to retain your services. Don't think that the charity has no money either. She gets a salary, probably a big one. You say your area is law, wonderful, make yourself s contract for the per month retainer you decide and put a cap on the number of hours/max work she can ask for. She won't even be your friend, remember. Don't pursue friendship with someone who has no respect for you. Also don't consider her a mother figure. You are a mother. Consider this woman your equal and ensure she treats you as such.

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

This probably isn’t quite what you wanted to hear Op but I think you’re going to have to face facts. She’s not quite what you want her to be and your husband is right. I’m sorry if this is difficult for you. Can you come back and tell us you’re ok?