DH says I am a minion to this woman

[Salvatoreseraphino]

I'm 35, currently a SAHM with 4 DC (all under 6.)

Before I had DC I used to work for a charity run by a very strong, successful woman who I admire very much. She is nearly 70, unmarried, with grown up children of her own.

I got to know her (will call her A) quite well but not as a close friend, just from work. She also took me on from university and I was there my whole working life.

Since having DC and having to stop work I have kept in contact with her and still go to work-related events and deal with work-related issues when I have the time. The charity and the people in it still constitute the main part of my social life, and free time (away from the DC and DH,) as I don't see it as just a job that I should let go of. The charity world is not like that.

Sometimes when they need me I do end up going back into work mode and resuming my job sometimes. And on some level I want it, but like to be able to dip in and out and take on my old role when I have time and leave it when I don't. Obviously I don't get paid for this, or for the hours I put in to help, as I don't officially work there anymore.

Unlike other sectors there is always a great need to do more, even if the basics are met, so even though I have been officially replaced in my job by someone else , there is still stuff that needs to be done.

For me working for the charity, even on a voluntary basis is important for those it benefits, and it has loads of perks, it's incredibly interesting, means I get to meet lots of interesting people too. And I know it so well - I worked there since university, so 15 years. Also because A runs it, she is very successful and inspiring and I have had lots of opportunities through the charity that I have not been able to have in other parts of life, especially as a mother of 4 where my daily life is quite monotonous.

A also asks me to give advice to her friends regarding my specialist area ( law), so I do give a lot of advice for free, or find myself spending a whole afternoon with a different charity run by another friend of A's giving them free advice - which I don't mind and it allows me to flex my intellect as the children grow up.

DH says that A condescends me, takes advantage of my willingness to help, and says that i am deferent and compliant around her. He says that in return she now gets the role I was previously doing, for free, for her friends as well, and does not pay me. And worst of all, he says, she does not even treat me like her friend after all these years. He says she treats me as staff, and that I delude myself thinking I am her friend, or that she and I are equals and she needs me. And that I should have some respect for myself and live a more realistic life with the DC and him and not go to any more events or work for free.

I am very confused about this because I do know that I am very drawn to older women because my DM died when I was a toddler. I am always searching for the elusive mother figure and maybe I have attached something maternal to A who is a very strong, admirable, successful older woman, who I feel has to some extent taken me under her wing. I have done this in the past with other older women, but I don't necessarily see it as a problem for me.

If I am very honest with myself, there is part of me, I think, which would quite like to be more of her friend than she allows, perhaps talk about more general things rather than work and know each other's lives better, or her to know my DC better, or to have more of a "mother/daughter" dynamic after all these years,for eg I have never been invited for dinner at her house and she has dinner parties all the time. I have invited her to mine but she always declines, mainly because of geography and because she is busy. But I don't waste time mulling over this, or resenting it not happening or pushing to make it happen. And I am quite happy with my situation, and the level at which A regards me. DH would argue that I wait like a little minion to be called or asked to help and then I drop everything in the hope of approval from "mummy."

To be even more honest, I do think some of my self esteem rests in being needed by her or performing a function for her. There is something about the relationship that makes me feel secure. DH always knows when I receive an email from her as he says my face "lights up." I'm aware that sounds a bit weirdly romantic, but it's not. And if it's not causing me any harm, surely it is okay?

My loyalty and voluntary work for her does not get in the way of family life or caring for the DC. DH says it Has an impact on the family because I am giving my time and not getting anything back. Not even friendship. But isn't that what charity work is anyway? And if I enjoy it and being around thsee people, surely that would be like a hobbie anyway?

Can anyone relate? What do you think? Do I sound crazy?

If you're not friends after all these years then it's doubtful that you ever will be.

Doing so much for her friends sounds as if she is taking advantage.

I agree with your husband.

OP for whatever reason this lady doesn’t not want to be your friend.

You are staff and always will be

I completely disagree. Going to work, even on a voluntary basis, does wonders for your morale, keeps you in contact with the outside world and looks good on your CV when you do go back to work.

I stopped working - much against my will, but I was really ill and dh just wouldn’t support me - and it made me miserable. I didn’t work for nearly 15 years due to my illness, and in that time I was miserable, bored, unchallenged and isolated. 3 years ago I started volunteering and the change in my mood, confidence, self-esteem was immediate and extraordinary. After a year, they insisted on paying me, so I am part time self-employed now, doing the hours I can, working from home when I can’t get in, and loving it (paid peanuts btw, but the money isn’t the point).

Keep working as you do as long as it suits you. Don’t listen to your dh on this one, he’s wrong wrong wrong.

I think she may sense that you look to her as a mother figure and she doesn't want that.

She has her own grown up children and doesn't have that space in her life for you. She may also view you as too young to be her friend.

I recently met an older lady (late 60s) and she wanted to be friends. We met for coffee ... She was lovely, but I saw her as a mother figure and I don't need another mother.

She is estranged with her grown DD and perhaps felt I could fill the void. I introduced her to my DM and they get on fine.
She did say I've palmed her off onto my DM... I'm not sure if she was joking or not tbh.

I just didn't feel I had anything in common with her ... maybe your Ex boss feels the same.

Fortunately it sounds like the woman is simply taking advantage of a need you have for personal validation. However, if you ever become involved with a genuine sociopath, they will utterly destroy you because they will zero in on you as a perfect target... the willing victim.

You seem have several issues.

1. She is not your friend and never will be. Move on and make other friends. Widen your circle.
2. If you are happy volunteering and enjoy the flexibility and I assume reduced accountability that this arrangement offers whilst your children are small then continue. On a personal note I would not work for free. From what you say you are a Law graduate. You worked hard to achieve your skill set and deserve payment for your expertise. Good luck.

I work in the voluntary sector. I know exactly how this feels. When you are committed to something, and usually in a charity you are, and when you had a great time, its very very hard to let go. I also find you often have intense work relationships because you are often dealing with difficult circumstances, and then afterwards you miss that closeness. But yes, you do need to walk away.

A few weeks ago I was meant to go to an event celebrating something that I had raised money for, it was a massive deal and all the staff I worked with would be there; although they have kept in touch with me professionally, none of those relationships turned into friendships and I was a bit disappointed. I raised that money 2 years ago, and I said goodbye at the time, so I did not attend, I walked away from it. Its time to let go. It felt very poignant as it was one of the most important things I ever did in my life, but I don't work there any more. Imagine if you left a job in a shop 2 years ago but you popped back in now and again to stack shelves as you missed it. People would think you were mad!!

I know it's not "working for free" its volunteering and again, if you work in that sector you know how important that it, but again I would caution against getting as involved as you are now. Slowly start to disengaged. Oh and BTW A should ALWAYS give you a good reference and put work your way, that's how it does work in charities, and in fact in many other businesses. This should not be dependent on your continuing to volunteer.

Doing volunteer work is a wonderful thing, if one wants to do volunteer work. I did some today

live a more realistic life with the DC and him and not go to any more events or work for free

I think your husband is being an arse. He is trying to isolate you. This is clearly interesting work for you, and work that fits neatly in with your children's current ages. It gets you out and around other interesting people. If you weren't involved with this, what would you be doing with that time instead? Fussy over him? Watching TV? How you would meet your own need to be involved in the world beyond your family?

I'm now in my 50s and my children are young adults, but I remember the years of living my life around the needs of my young children (one with special needs) and my DH's work/travel schedule, and feeling like that didn't leave any space in my life for anything else. My advice is that you have to consider What Make You Happy, and keep it in your life. And tell your DH that.

"DH says it Has an impact on the family because I am giving my time and not getting anything back." Rubbish. If it keeps your mind active, if it gives you more meaning and connection, if it Makes You Happy, then it f*cking stays. Because you are not just a vessel to meet the needs of him and the kids. You are a person. You count as a person. Your life has to work for you. Not everything in your life has to be about the family.

Marriages where the people don't figure this out struggle.

But I do agree that setting some boundaries would be healthy. How many hours a week do you want to volunteer? What do you want to be doing during those hours? Learning to say "no" and set boundaries gives us more power over our lives.

BTW -- what kind of events are you going to? Are there other reasons why your DH wants you to skip them? Do you get all dressed up? Is he jealous?

Hi why don't you claim expenses when you go in or when you get a babysitter - that's fair isn't it? The legal advice is another matter - your very generous but could you ask for a fee? Would your husband be happier if you where being paid? That would be telling.
As someone else said - she has employed someone else to do your job.
Do you or could you say no the occasional time - are you always available when she asks. Can you not say no to her? Maybe you need her more than she needs you?
It seems to suit you for now as it gives you another focus than your 4 children which I'm sure you need. It gives you a social life - do you see colleagues outside these work events? You enjoy it. If your happy carry on. I'm sure you have future plans to return to work - it will be good on your CV. You've got a lot to offer another employer. When your ready it maybe good to spread your wings. Good luck x

So really when you need a babysitter it’s costing you money to work for free/ volunteer.

A would do anything for me professionally - like give me a reference, introduce me to another company to work at (for money.) she always asks me what she can do and thanks me a lot

None of which involves A putting her hand in her pocket.

You are not really volunteering , that to me is when you offer your time FOC at your convenience. Not waiting around to get an email calling you to work.

I can understand where your dh is coming from. He is at home with the DC and he can never plan on anything because as soon as A clicks her fingers you go running

7 posts before someone managed to make this a Husband Problem. FFS.

FWIW, your husband is right.

Most of it seems fine to me but the bit that stands out is giving your advice to her friends.

How much is that time of yours worth, £40 per hour maybe? More?

Use there any reason why her friends cannot pay?

I actually think this is like having an exbf who you are still in love with. He has replaced you but you still wait around for the booty call. You drop everything and go running to him. Except now you are doing the same for his mates.

In the meantime your dh gets sidelined and he can only sit and watch.

I think your husband is right, she is taking advantage. You are doing all this in the hopes of a closer relationship with A. I suspect she knows this and that is why you are not invited to her house so she keeps you hanging around. Or it could simply be she still sees you as you were on the first day she met you.

I would walk away and cultivate other friendships, maybe one of those will give you what you really desire.

TBH your dh's attitude here would worry me as much as anything.
He may have a point about the way she treats you, but he sounds just as bad. Calling you her "little minion", referring to her as "mummy" knowing how you feel about the loss of your real mother... He sounds jealous, controlling and full of contempt.

If A really values you, how about suggesting she hires you as a paid ad hoc freelancer?

You still haven’t said how many hours a week you’re volunteering, but evenings and time when older DC are in school sounds like a lot. You are also incurring childcare costs to go to events you are not paid for. This makes me think your DH has a point.

It’d be better IMO to seek paid work.

Why can’t or won’t DH look after the DC when you attend evening events?

I'm a lawyer. Are you insured for the legal advice you're providing? Just because you're giving it for free doesn't mean they can't make a claim against you if you get it wrong and believe me it happens.

I've spent best part of twenty years working in the charity sector and I say this very gently, you are being a deluded. She is taking advantage of you and your skill set, too be fair she's even hinting at such when she offers introductions, references etc. There is no reason why she couldn't employ you on a casual basis but then why would she when you will work for free. DH makes are very valid point.

I’m surprised at the posters criticising this woman for not inviting you over for dinner. I would never expect to have a social relationship with a colleague (it happens sometimes, of course, but I would never expect it), even a long standing one of 15 years. It may even be that she senses some of your feelings about a mother figure and is deliberately keeping you at arm’s length as she knows she can’t fulfill that space in your life.

Speaking as someone who used to be a SAHM who did quite a bit of voluntary work, I see no problem with you doing unpaid work as long as you enjoy it and can fit it around your family life. I’m sure in my case it helped me get a job when I returned to work, so it wasn’t purely selfless.

I think you need to talk to your DH. Try to understand why he’s so negative about this. Would he be happy if you were doing exactly the same as you’re doing but getting paid a small amount? Would you also be happier with that? If so, maybe you could try and negotiate a paid consultancy role?

Test the water a little with A.

Next time she offers 'anything I could do for you?' Say 'I'm starting up on my own, I'm charging £x per hour, please send any business my way.'

See what happens, would she really do anything for you? If she's really as great as you think she'll be supportive and give you business, if your husband is right she won't.

Tilapia You're ignoring the dynamic though. The OP isn't 'volunteering' just because she is passionate about the charity and wants to benefit them. She's not talked about that. This isn't a true voluntary role. She didn't take it on as a volunteer.

She is hoping for more from A, which is the issue. It creates a power imbalance and one which A is exploiting by offering her services free to her friends, for example.

In this situation, the OP is vulnerable to exploitation, which is what is happening.

I agree with your dh. I think you should be charging for your services.

My heart went out for you when you said your mum died. I had a very emotionally devoid childhood. My mother is still alive but she completely abandoned me emotionally and expected me to be her emotional crutch and emotional punching bag.

I needed a mother and so did you. I have had a lot of therapy. I have learnt to be very kind to myself and love myself when I hated myself before. I really can advise you to do the same. I was very emotionally immature. The therapy in a way coupled with motherhood has helped me to bring myself up so to speak as I could be a mother to my dd and to myself. Now I am now to nurture the injured and hurt little girl inside me.

If you do the work, you can be your own mother and stop searching for one all around you. It will fill your heart. In the meantime, perhaps look elsewhere for a substitute. The little old lady down the road or a neighbour even if she only a little older than you. Perhaps a lady, who frequents the church coffee mornings. They need to be emotionally available. Your former boss is not.