Is your OH a gent?

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I've just noticed as I've gotten older that I really appreciate and notice a man opening a door for me, or generally being gentlemanly. My OH is not a gent at all. He would nearly barge in front of me in a cafe. When we were younger I thought this was great that he thought women were so equal and could hold their own.(go to the bar the exact same amount of times etc) but now I find it ill mannered.

DS is 7 and I am bringing him up to be a gent as I don't want him to be like his Dad. Just wondering what other people thought.

whiskyowl whats MRA and why exactly should I go back there

@Shodan brilliant reposte!

*riposte

He won't open the door for me because he knows it's 2017 and it's patronising to assume that I'm too weak to do it myself

This is what I don't understand. I don't know any man that believes I (or any woman, for that matter) am too weak and feeble to open a door. It's just a small courtesy to make the world a nicer place, imo.

I agree with those who say that a gentleman (or gentlewoman, to use a less-used word) will open a door/carry a bag/help someone with a pushchair up or down stairs (and notice I say someone, not a woman). It's just good manners.

However. I notice and appreciate manners towards me from my partner more than I would most others. Why?

It's because I am strong and capable, independent and assured. I know I can do those things for myself, so I don't need to shout about it and ridicule or possibly embarrass someone who is only trying to make my life a little bit nicer. I spent more than twenty years, with two different husbands, being the one who carried the bags/ opened the door/lifted the heavy stuff etc and it's really good to feel that someone would like to take the load off once in a while.

Why thank you, sabrinathemiddleagedwitch1 and GoingRogue

DH has good manners. So do I.

Either of us would open a door etc for others - nothing to do with their sex (or their gender, come to that). We've raised our children to be courteous, too.

It would seem weird to me if DH performed all these little courtesies for me and I didn't reciprocate, just because he's a man and I'm a woman. Don't need that everyday sexism in our lives as it underpins a lot of the assumptions that men and women make about what gender roles 'should' be.

No, my husband is not a gent. He’s kind & thoughtful & treats me like an equal but he’s definitely not a gent. Too much sitting around in his pants to qualify, I think.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Did you just conveniently forget about this bit of my post They all gave him a really shit time for months after that incident ganging up together to nit pick and bitch oh and this bit too a barrage of comments about women can do it themselves

This isn't an isolated incident. He was the bigger person if you want to phrase it that way, those vile women make his work life a nightmare.

I've been on nights out and witnessed it first hand myself and their attitude stinks. Everything is 'mens fault' apparently and not theirs for their appalling behaviour. Had they worked in my last employers they would have been sacked a long time ago.

Unfortunately being employed in emergency services means its almost impossible to get rid of you except in the most extreme circumstances so he is stuck with them.

His 'male ego' wasn't bruised he is doing exactly what they wanted him to do and that's not hold doors open and not make them tea, not help carry heavy and bulky items oh and not offer them any sympathy or understanding when theyre unwell because all of that isn't being nice its apparently pointing out that women are an underclass of weak feeble beings.

Apparently doing this though now means he is a mean and heartless brute whos using his position as supervisor to put women even more in their place and reaffirming the notion that theyre beneath him.

See how he cant win? Its doesn't matter what he does or why as far as theyre concerned he is a 'tosser of the highest order with an ego problem' when the reality is he was a kind thoughtful person who believed he was helping and he's being punished for it.

I don't know a single man who thinks 'I know I will hold this door open/help carry boxes because I think shes weak and helpless' and a huge proportion of the population really don't believe this either.

It seems the opposite of a 'gent' is an 'arsehole'

Our family rule, don't be a dick.

OH really is a gent, and kind and lovely to boot. Adorable.

"I agree with those who say that a gentleman (or gentlewoman, to use a less-used word) will open a door/carry a bag/help someone with a pushchair up or down stairs (and notice I say someone, not a woman). It's just good manners."

I agree that anyone should hold a door open for anyone else who is incommoded and unable to do it for themselves - by a pushchair, heavy load, etc. Men, women, children - anyone who is able should lend a hand.

What I object to is the idea that men are particularly and peculiarly obliged to do this because of an etiquette that, as far as I can tell, was necessary in an era of huge hoop petticoats where women were so ridiculously attired that they couldn't even reach a door, but is no longer needed in an era of more slimline clothes.

I have an acquaintance who goes to exaggerated lengths to show 'chivalry' - leaping out of chairs when women come into rooms, holding open doors for them. He also happens to be a patronising git who treats women like they are more stupid than he is.

When you come to a door, the reaction should be natural - the person who is closest and best able to open it does so. It's rarely an issue if you know how to occupy space confidently, and don't hang back waiting for obstacles to be removed from your path to walk along it. I will open a door for a bloke if I am closest and don't have a heavy load, a bloke will open one for me vice versa.

What I object to is the idea that men are particularly and peculiarly obliged to do this because of an etiquette that, as far as I can tell, was necessary in an era of huge hoop petticoats where women were so ridiculously attired that they couldn't even reach a door, but is no longer needed in an era of more slimline clothes.

Well yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly there.

But this I have an acquaintance who goes to exaggerated lengths to show 'chivalry' - leaping out of chairs when women come into rooms, holding open doors for them. He also happens to be a patronising git who treats women like they are more stupid than he is is the issue, I think.

There are far too many men who use feminism as an excuse to do away with good manners. And, I'm sorry to say, there are women who are so ill-mannered themselves to use the same as an excuse to piss all over the simple courtesies that everyone should employ and enjoy. And of course, you have the twats like the acquaintance you mention who will always put on a show, because they think it makes them look better than they are.

I took the OP to mean, essentially, are you with a well-mannered man or a twat?

Shodan - to me, good manners is clearing a space for the other person to appear to you as an equal, and to feel comfortable in your presence.

I am very grateful to a bloke who helps me with the door when I'm carrying 7 bags of shopping. I am not grateful to the stupid idiot who leaps up every time I come into the room, because it serves only to underline what he perceives as an inequality between us, and this makes me feel actively uncomfortable.

As always, it's about context and how it's done, isn't it? I'm sure we'd agree on that, though.

whiskyowl I think we're pretty much in agreement anyway.

Yes, context is all- as can be seen from my posts, I suspect I'm more susceptible than many to my man carrying bags etc, and I have reasons for that.

I like this: to me, good manners is clearing a space for the other person to appear to you as an equal, and to feel comfortable in your presence - that's an excellent way to put it. No-one needs to see a man doing his best jack-in-the-box impression just because a woman is entering/leaving a room- this does nothing to fulfil those criteria, but just serves to make a man look laughable.

I'll admit I'm not keen on demonstrative chivalry - grabbing my coat out of my hands and holding it up for me with a flourish or even a comment about being a gentleman, as if I am meant to give them a round of applause. Just quietly being polite and thoughtful is more impressive to me.

My ex never really noticed the other people around him: he'd walk down the middle of the pavement, and if someone else came in the other direction it was always me who made space for them, dodging behind him. When we finished a meal in a restaurant we'd both put our coats on, then he'd say he was just going to the loo and leave me standing there in my coat. He never offered me a cup of tea or coffee if he was getting one. Never tried to include me in conversation in a group of people I didn't know. When he set the table he always put my knife and fork the wrong way round, doing it from his point of view, not mine. I always just used to think it must be great to be like him and not to constantly worry about what other people were thinking or doing - I thought I was the one overthinking things - but now, actually I think he's just not a very considerate person. Or maybe just couldn't be bothered, with me. Now all a bf has to do is show some simple courtesy and I'm impressed!

Mine is absolutely a gentleman, to both women and men. He behaves in a very classy, well mannered way and I adore that about him. He's quite old fashioned, but in a thoroughly pleasant way.

My partner always helps people and is courteous, he helped an old lady neighbour carry her shopping once when she was struggling.
It depends on your definition on a gent though, he delights in farting as loud as he can lol

Sabrina they sound lovely, and I'm sorry for trying to make a general point from the wrong specific example!

@Ellisandra
Takes a big person to say sorry. It's cool Actually you made me laugh saying my gm may have been a timid lady etc. I want you to think hyacinth bucket meets Maggie thatcher that was her. She was on my poor grandads case a lot of the time but he loved her so much as she did him. This thread is really interesting though. What is a gentleman? And how is he different to a man who treats everyone with respect? Is a gentleman someone who simply treats women like the weaker sex. Also I see it as a bit of a show when a man goes ott and raises alarm bells with me. My exh was like this. Be a total sickly charmer but underneath had a real evil streak so it makes me wary. I've brought my dc up to be polite, remember your manners and treat everyone with respect. My son holds doors open for anyone and will offer a seat to an elderly man or pregnant lady. And my daughter does the same.

@ravenmum
I think you've just summed it up perfectly for me "demonstrative chivalry ". One thing doing it because they think they should but a totally different thing when it's done out of kindness, politeness and thoughtfulness. When a nice act is done naturally then it's not patronising.

DP is a real gentleman and treats everyone with courtesy and consideration.

I don't want him to open doors for me or carry a bag which I'm perfectly capable of carrying, however. I treat him as my equal, and I expect the same from him. I firmly believe that equality works both ways and I will not be patronised or treated like a 'little woman'.

Too many women expect equality in the workplace yet still expect men to pay for everything when they go out. We're either equal with men or we're not.