Is your OH a gent?

[NK1cf53daaX127805d4fd5]

I've just noticed as I've gotten older that I really appreciate and notice a man opening a door for me, or generally being gentlemanly. My OH is not a gent at all. He would nearly barge in front of me in a cafe. When we were younger I thought this was great that he thought women were so equal and could hold their own.(go to the bar the exact same amount of times etc) but now I find it ill mannered.

DS is 7 and I am bringing him up to be a gent as I don't want him to be like his Dad. Just wondering what other people thought.

Strangers? Don’t bother any more. Too many grumpy feminists giving it the “are you suggesting I can’t manage” “I can manage a door thanks” etc etc to be arsed.

Good. Stop patronising women. Extend courtesy to everyone regardless of gender.

"Still hold doors for other men because it’s just polite but honestly the shit you get from some woman for trying to be nice really means I can’t be arsed anymore."

Bollocks. Complete bollocks.

I've managed to put a stop to DP jumping in front of me to open car doors and grab things out of my arms to carry them.

This is what I object to.

Some people are actually just looking to be offended unfortunately, and they give feminism a bad name 😔

Well if that has actually really happened, then perhaps someone should have taught yeeeha that two wrongs don't make a right.

Bollocks. Complete bollocks

It really not. I got “oh that’s right, help the useless woman” when I helped a woman pick up some papers she dropped.

It’s probably only one in ten, but enough that I can’t be arsed anymore.

And to Buzzkillington who accused me of patronising women, she either can’t read or is exactly the sort of woman I am talking about.

So you'll be rude to a whole group of people because 10% of the ones you've encountered, approximately, have been rude to you? Nice.

So you'll be rude to a whole group of people because 10% of the ones you've encountered, approximately, have been rude to you? Nice.

Nope.
It’s no “being rude” to not go out of your way to hold a door for someone who is, let’s face it, capable of doing it themselves.

It’s not “being rude” to not offer my seat up to someone of the opposite sex who is a similar age to me.

Both the above are just not “being gentlemanly” which is what the thread is about.

I don’t get why people refuse to accept other people’s experiences. If I do something nice for a man I only ever get a thanks, or cheers, or a nod of the head.

As a man if I do the same for women i fairly regularly get a smart arse comment or a raised eye, or a big huff and a sigh.

It’s not “being rude” to not offer my seat up to someone of the opposite sex who is a similar age to me.

It is however, incredibly patronising and I would take offence and think you an arse.

Nope. Im also often found following on a few feet behind with the kids (sometimes by myself, but we're rarely out alone together anyhow). He sometimes asks if i want him to carry bags, but they're then shared equally.
Doesn't go into the spare room when his snoring wakes me up (every night) unless i I'm make a big thing of it.
Its not because he sees us as equal, because if im too busy with something else (eg work hours) he'll leave cleaning bathrooms etc until i get round to it, no matter how long it takes. He's obv much more important.

It is however, incredibly patronising and I would take offence and think you an arse.

Thanks. You have just proven the point I was making.

There are a growing number of woman who think a man is being patronising, and a arse, when he behaves in the way that we have traditionally been told is gentlemanly.

It’s not “being rude” to not offer my seat up to someone of the opposite sex who is a similar age to me.

Well no, of course it isn't. Why would anyone offer their seat to someone of the opposite sex who is a similar age and of a similar capacity (e.g. assuming not disabled or pregnant)?

Yeeeha you sound lovely (genuinely! I realise it's hard to write that on MN sometimes without it looking sarky).

BuzzKillington can't believe you'd be offended by someone offering you a seat on the bus?! Nowt as queer as folk.

I think, in that case, yeeeha, what I would hope you would take from this thread is that the majority of women don't want a man to behave in a 'traditionally gentlemanly' way (it's been a bit of an eye opener for me here that so many say they would!!)

But that all of us, in a move towards equality, should be considerate of each other's individual needs and show good manners and compassion towards each other regardless of our sex.

I would certainly thank you for any offer of help you made towards me, even if I rejected it. And I would expect similar of you.

God. Why have we got to the point where someone who happens to be roughly the same age and ability as you offering their seat on a bus is rude/"incredibly patronising"/weird.

When did it stop being ok to just be nice ??

I don't use public transport often, but if someone offered their seat to me, and I wanted it, I would just be grateful. I might have a hidden disability, or be shattered or dizzy, or have a long journey and the person offering me their seat might be getting off at the next stop.

The world really is getting a sadder place by the day.

My friend's husband will bump into you as he skips in front of you and I find it quite unnerving. I feel I have to be watchful of where he is standing and moving to, such is his need to stand by the roadside or open a door for you.

I don't find it patronising as much as irritating that it's unnecessary and actually more inconvenient than opening the door myself!

Rogue I just think it would be a bit odd. If it's nice for a man to offer a woman of the same age/ability his seat, what if it is the woman who is sitting down? Should she offer it to the man?

Is the expectation to accept or reject?
Would the seated person offer their seat to a person of the same sex?
Who should ultimately be sitting in the seat? The orignal person? Someone they fell over themselves to offer it to? Is it rude to accept?

But that all of us, in a move towards equality, should be considerate of each other's individual needs and show good manners and compassion towards each other regardless of our sex.

Agreed

The point is however, that if I treat everyone in the same way and open doors etc, men are appreciative, and SOME woman take a grump and accuse me of being patronising.

The end result is that although I will obviously never close a door on anyone, I am more inclined to go out of my way for a man who will say thanks than for a woman who might get arsey with me.

Sad world really.

I always say thank you to anyone who offers to hold the door open for me or give me a hand with bags etc. And I do the same for EVERYONE else. I was shopping today when I saw a man carrying a shopping basket and a slow cooker (we were in Lilds, those middle aisles!! Lol) I could see he was struggling as he kept stopping and stretching his hands. I offered to help him and he politely declined. I'm all for equality but manners cost nothing and I for one will continue to be courteous and well mannered and will politley accept (or decline if needs be) any offers to make my day a little easier.

yeeeha I would not be offended if you gave your seat ip for me, I would think you were a gentleman. Its good manners.
Patronising?? Really?

Would you accept it though, ladymariner?

I'm not sure I'd consider myself to be more deserving of a seat than a man just because I'm a woman.

I have been offered seats but never accepted unless I was pregnant because I'm not in any greater need of a seat than anyone else.

I wouldn't be rude to anyone who offered though.

I think the only time I've come close to being 'rude' is when a man in a car park took it up on himself to guide me in to a parking space when I was reversing in. Now if it had been a tight spot, or I was clearly struggling, fair enough, but I have no issues reversing into a parking space so it was unnecessary, because I'm a woman (he wouldn't have done it for a man, I checked ) and he made it harder because he became a hazard.

But I'm not an arse, because once I was tentatively entering a carpark with a height barrier and I had my roofbox on. I couldn't tell if I was going to hit it so was moving very slowly. A nearby man saw and beckoned me on with a thumbs up when it was clear I was ok. I said thanks.

The difference is, if you offer help/support/assistance because someone appears to be in need of it, then it's good manners. If it's because you've deemed them to be more in need because of their sex, then it's not.

Doors should be held open by everyone, for everyone.

Although I have just remembered that I once asked a man if he needed any help and he shouted at me! I think I must have really offended him by suggesting that he was so incapable that he required the assistance of a woman.

MorrisZapp that is a great story! How nice that he was as lovely to you as he seems on screen. I thought everyone loved Martin Freeman, and am surprised that there haven't been lots of people very excited by your experience with him.

Where do we stand on men standing back on the station platform to allow me to board a busy commuter train first? I assume it’s because I’m a woman (possibly of certain years, as are the men generally). I could snarl at them for being sexist and then we’d all hover and miss the train, maybe? I prefer to smile and say thank you. It makes us all feel better. Doing people favours and treating people kindly makes both parties feel better.
I don’t see the men are saying I need particular assistance or are treating me as a lesser being - the opposite in fact. I actually feel sad for the (often younger) men and women who remain oblivious to the needs of others and continue sitting whilst the pregnant, the mother with a suitcase and two children or an elderly person is standing. My children were all taught to offer up their seats, to open doors and to help with carrying pushchairs down stairs because that is how my husband behaves. It makes the world turn more smoothly.

Sabrina your grandad would swear or tell a rude joke in front of your man and was furious if anyone else did? And you see him as a wonderful gentleman for it.

Perhaps your nan loved a good swear and when he wasn't around, in her female social circle had a reputation for fabulously quick and witty filthy sense of humour? Perhaps she was infantilised and unable to express her true personality because, on account of her gender, she was treated like a child not allowed to swear. Perhaps your nan would have been a happier woman and therefore not driven him insane, if he (albeit as an non malicious actor for wider society) hadn't kept the poor woman in a bloody box?

Seriously... imagine a life for you now, where men around you could swear and joke how they wanted to - but you couldn't.

I agree Ellisandra

I have a hobby. Where I do it, there are about 20 people who go and I'm one of 2 or 3 women. I'm the only woman who goes regularly.

Never had an bother, it's always been fine, no one ever behaved inappropriately. I'll chat, have a beer and a laugh with the best of them.

A couple of weeks ago, one of the men said "bugger". That was it. He'd dropped something and said, "Oh bugger". He apologised to me. And then later, apologised again.

It actually made me a bit sad.

Because, up until that point, I'd seen us as the same. Just one group of people with a common interest. Not men. Not women. Just people doing the hobby.

And in that moment I was reminded that they see me as different to them. And I became aware that, on a weekly basis, they migt all be modifying their behaviour because there are women around. And resenting us for it.

My DP and I are very much equal, we have equal share of household chores, earn a similar salary, although I’m slightly more senior in my role, he always walks on the traffic side of the pavement, it’s like an instinct, he just does it without thinking and every time it makes me feel a little bit cared for.

There is nothing wrong with having male/female manners, we all have them from our upbringings, women are generally more gentle and caring and men tend to be more protective in my exp.

He will usher me in front of me on the escalator during the stampede at the train station on out daily commute ensuring I don’t get left behind, I don’t find it patronising, just thoughtful.