IABU about holiday with DP & BF - talk me down!!

[anon97528996]

Apologies - long post

I am going on holiday this year with DP and my best friend this summer. I've been on antidepressants for just over 6 months and they affect me badly when it comes to alcohol, think 'too pissed to walk in a straight line' after one glass of wine. Drinking will feature heavily on this holiday. To cut to the chase, BF is a ridiculously flirtatious person. She doesn't mean it, but she receives endless declarations of love from the men she befriends as they misinterpret her overly familiar and touchy-feely manner. This does usually lead to some pretty funny stories but there have been several occasions where she's requested DP 'save' her from these men - this has resulted in physical fights. Overall she's fab, loads of fun and we've been friends since childhood.

Now I know IABU, but to be honest I'm a bit jealous of her friendship with DP. She is no different with him to other men, so she compliments him constantly, harmless in itself except I end up feeling there is nothing worth complimenting me on - especially when she praises specifically him for things/decisions we've made as a couple! It does get me down despite her being like this with all men, so although it clearly isn't meant to be flirting it obviously strokes DP's ego and he's always keen to help her out.

I'm going to feel vulnerable on holiday whether I drink or not. There have been a few occasions including nights out where I've felt very let down by both of them e.g. having panic attacks and not being able to find either of them as she's dragged him off somewhere for some kind of favour. Last time he had to 'save' her from a man she'd been flirting with, DP was nearly bottled in the face and I have started going back to counselling as a result as it was a horrible fight which gave me flashbacks.

I know IABU and they both love me more than anything, but I have repeated nightmares about dying horrible deaths while they ignore me and I'm in a very dark place mentally at the moment. How can I handle this without ruining everyone's holiday? WIBU to ask for boundaries and procedures to be discussed beforehand?

You need to realise that yourbpugri be getting into 3 flights in 6 years is a lot.
It really is.
Go start a thread in 'Chat' and see how many people think that's normal.
It doesn't sound a lot - because 3 in 6 years is only 3. But when almost everyone you meet will say they have NEVER been in a fight, then you realise 3 is a lot.

Now ask them how many times they've had to deal with arseholes on the pull - sadly it'll be lots

But 3 physical fights in 6 years ain't normal.

Your boyfriend's behaviour - the whole picture - is contributing to your poor MH.

I don't doubt your MH means you're over reacting to some things. But not all.

I know you were given ADs, but are you being offered counselling too?

You really sound like you need it

"Only" three fights and quite a few more verbal altercations in six years?

And you fancy yourselves as alternative, peace and love types?

It's sad that your loyal BF can't see the drama she is doing.

Can't you all sit down and have a call chat about it?

He isn't the one starting fights you don't have to believe me if you don't want, but he isn't violent and that isn't the issue. I just want to have them reassure me that they'll look after me, just as I've looked after them before, because Im feeling very vulnerable and they don't always remember because I've always been the strong, sensible friend who organises the shit out of anything which could go wrong.

And actually I disagree I know men who get attacked far more regularly! And usually for no reason at all. As I said i live in london, a crap bit of london at that. I'm a massive pacifist and couldn't spent time with someone who started fights or even arguments on purpose, that doesn't stop people becoming victims though.

Do you feel strong enough to address this directly with them -either individually or together?

And actually I disagree I know men who get attacked far more regularly! And usually for no reason at all

You are talking absolute bollox here now. Of course one can always be the victim of a random assault but as a general rule, no one gets attacked regularly in public for no reason at all. And in this case, there is a reason. Your so called best friend.

Wake up and smell the coffee. For pacifists, you guys sure live a seemingly aggressive lifestyle.

I just want to have them reassure me that they'll look after me, just as I've looked after them before, because Im feeling very vulnerable and they don't always remember because I've always been the strong, sensible friend who organises the shit out of anything which could go wrong.

I get this, I really do. Can you not just talk to them? Have you not raised this with them before?

And actually I disagree I know men who get attacked far more regularly! And usually for no reason at all.

Sorry but the same people don't get attacked regularly for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

You really do need to see this.

My DH was a heavy drinker, isn't particularly calm and can be quite very opinionated
We live in London - a nice part now but plenty of scuzzy areas in the past.
In the 25 years I've known him he has been in precisely zero fights and one verbal altercation (a pissed up squaddie took issue with his accent - DH talked him down and they parted on a handshake). Similar story for all his mates.
People are just not regularly attacked for no reason.

I don't know what you mean by "alternative" but do you mean visually different to norm?
Because sadly, especially in some areas, having a certain look is going to make to a target for a drunken aggressive arsehole wanting to start a fight.

But... even if that's the case, it isn't only that. This isn't random, it always hinges around your friend's behaviour and your boyfriend's.

We are not going to be able to tell you how to make them change their behaviour in time for this holiday. Especially as you said there'll be a lot of drinking - so you can pretty much guarantee when that kicks in, any previous discussion is going to be forgotten.

You are unwell at the moment. If you'd just broken your leg and said to your boyfriend "I'd love to still go, but I'm in a wheelchair at the moment so it's only possible if you don't drink and stick with me all time - what do you think?" would he do that?

Your health issue is your MH not a leg, and your wheelchair is your ADs.

If I asked my fiancé to go teetotal for a holiday and stick to me like glue - he would. Honestly, if that were a long term thing I think we'd struggle. But then, I wouldn't ask him not to drink at all, ever. But right now, if I asked for his help, and that means a week off beer and not running around after a needy drama queen - he'd be there for me.

She is not loyal. Your DP cannot be a "raging feminist" and "protector". Why are you minimising? Your friend is all flighty and fluffy and fun, your partner her masterful protector. You are their chaperone. I'm sorry but I would not go in your shoes ( I'm clinically depressed and have been on ads for 2 years now) . Jeez my anxiety would be off the scale... please please prioritise yourself as your friend and partner have not

And your friend needs to grow the fuck up.

I have been holding back on this because I don't want to get lambasted for victim blaming, and I don't worry want to be a victim blamer.

You should be able to flirt all night, come onto a man strong as you like and still expect him to go quietly when you say no.

But... you said that she is a ridiculous flirt. It just isn't on to play those games with people, it is really shitty behaviour.

Of course these men should walk calmly away, doing nothing or even than rightly judging them in their minds. But she sounds like she's either a nasty and manipulative shit, or someone with serious issues. Either of which is a reason not to go on a drinking holiday until she sorts her shit out.

Thank you to the lovely posters. I think I need to talk to them seperately and explain my worries and how I'm feeling. If we all spoke together, from the relies I've had here, it may look like I'm accusing them of being in cahoots. If we chat and either of them don't take it on board, I'll have to accept they don't actually care.

As fascinating as the social commentary is, please pause for a second to consider the lack of violence in your lives may be more to do with the luck of your circumstances than your lack of shortcomings. I have no close friends who have never been attacked, robbed or raped. I would never blame them. They're good people and its a fairytale to imagine only bad people get hurt.

Yep, as I said earlier, most people, on learning that a repeated behaviour repeatedly has the same (unpleasant) result, would change the way they behave. That's not victim-blaming, it is crediting adults with reason and agency.

And a man who was a feminist would expect a woman to engage her brain rather than continually rushing in to save the poor ickle fluffyhead,

Op I mean this nicely, since I first posted here you've said you've found replies upsetting. I don't want to add to your upset, but most of my siblings live in London, and regularly go on very booze nights out . None have been in any fights in the last 3 years.

Dont use London as your excuse, it is the behaviour of your friend, and your DP, that seems to be the problem here.

We could all sit here and tell you to speak to your bf - 'please understand that dp won't be getting into any fights on your behalf on holiday...' but somehow I don't think it'll make any difference.

You need to change the dynamic - go out with your DP or her. Lessen the time together as a threesome. It doesn't work for you.

I've been on the pull in London and elsewhere as a young single person and by and large even a guy who's bought us a drink doesn't feel entitled to us. We've carried on if we fancied (I was never really one for random shags but some girlfriends were) or just said no thanks and walked away. Maybe we were lucky but never really needed a big burly boyfriend of a friend to come "save us". We're all "raging feminists" as well.

Your friend sounds tiresome.

And you need to talk to your DP about not feeding her endless drama.

I'm sorry but it really sounds like your friends behaviour is provoking these fights, and she needs to acknowledge that and be at least a little mindful. Have any of the three fights your DP has been involved in happened when your friend WASNT involved? I suspect not.

I think it's fair to say less time as a 3 is a good idea. I am much less vocal about my needs and hate feeling like a burden especially in a group. I can't deny there's stuff going on under the surface with my friend, it's not my place to tell her story but I've been there every step of the way so can't expect anyone to sympathise the way I do. I'd leave DP if he left her in danger or suggested she "engage her brain" when she is frightened. That's not to say we can't limit our exposure to those situations, I've just turned down an invitation for tomorrow night from her.

Thank you to everyone asking me to prioritise myself. It doesn't come naturally. Meeting DP now for date night - I'll lay all the cards on the table and see what he says.

Hmmmmm I think your friend needs to work on her self esteem issues and be told that she either just talks to people in your group or if chatting up randoms learns how to say no, assertively all by herself. Obviously going to piss off a drunk guy she's flirting with of out of the blue some random bloke comes along and tells them to back off (in their minds so he can have her)! Should they get violent, no, could it be avoided by her not being over friendly with random, is course. At what point does your "friend" take responsibility for her own actions? Yes, of course he and the rest of your group should step in IF she were being attacked, but doesn't sound like that's what's happening if she's asking for help. Why can't he just say, no, you got yourself into it, YOU tell him your no longer interested, not my circus, not my monkeys

OP, I'm a man (and I've lived in London for 20 years). I've never ever got into a fight, and none of my mates have either. And we've been out in all sorts of rough places. I think the honest truth is that regularly (by which I mean more than once or twice in a few years) getting into aggressive altercations says something about you - not the places you choose to go out in.

The dynamic between this bloke and your friend sounds a bit fucked up, to be honest. Again, the men who find themselves getting into these dramas "saving" women do so because, at some level, they want to because it fulfills some need in them.

Another person who's lived in London for more than 20 years and never so much as seen a fight

Good. I am very happy for you!

Only able to relay my own life experiences folks. And IMO, a "sorry mate, shes told you we're leaving so can you stop following us" hardly warrants a bottle to the head. We aren't running around swinging our fists at anyone who will pay notice!

Medication is useful to a point but you too have to help yourself and going on holiday where there's going to be a culture of drinking and a socially unintelligent 'friend', is not helping yourself.

I don't give a flying fig about all the reasons she behaves the way she does, she's a grown arse woman and that means she has to act like it.

Her behaviour is unacceptable and I think you are being unfair on your DH, expecting him to not step in when your friend is being threatened but saying nothing to your friend. You need to talk to your friend and say that her behaviour is unacceptable and puts her and your DH in danger. If she wants to continue her risky behaviour, then that's her prerogative but cleanup is her responsibility.

Everyone has their roles to play in relationship dynamics, including you OP. It's time to either call her out on her behaviour, or restrict your exposure to her in situations where she has form for being irresponsible.