Leaving an angry man

[newmumintown]

I am about to send this email to my husband (who is away from home at the moment). I should be pretty self-explanatory, but i just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts...should I even send it, anything I can add that might make him realise he's become a bastard, recommendations about what to do next???
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where to start? i wanted to let you know how i am feeling and maybe get some sort of dialog going before we lose the ability to communicate completely.

i can not live like this anymore. i dont want the children to live like this anymore. i can't stop thinking that your anger and nastiness is only going to continue until you are on to your next family and you realise that you are making the same mistakes again. maybe by the time you get there you will be ready to do something about it. i just wish that it didnt have to come at the expense our beautiful children (and myself), who will be heartbroken.

it is ok and perfectly natural to be angry. what is not ok is using that anger on the people you love by swearing, shouting, calling names and lashing out. it is also not ok to get angry 10 times a day for fairly minor everyday occurrences. i know you think i'm blowing it out of proportion ("its not as bad as youre making out"), but i can already see the effects...x talking to me (and his brother) like shit because he sees you do it. x cowering when he makes a mistake. i still keep picturing x's face when you whacked him over the head with that inflatablel by the pool, sunglasses all skew-wiff, not knowing what had hit him. that's all i could think about when we got home.

you have so many fantastic fatherly qualities, but they are all overshadowed by the thoughts that you could turn at any time from loving, patient, generous and funny to scary and threatening. i feel ashamed that i have let this go on for so long, but never in a million years did i want my amazing kids coming from a broken home, shipped from parent to parent, no single place to call home. but i cant let it go on and, knowing that you dont think there is a problem on that front, i know that you wont do anything about it.

it's not up to me or the children to keep you happy to stop you from getting angry, it's impossible to stop anyone in the world from getting angry at some point...there is always going to be some event, problem, mistake, accident etc that is going to happen and the point is to know how to handle it in a way that doesnt scare, upset and traumatise your family. like it or not, there are times when you scare us. and those times are not rare.
deep down in my heart i know that things are never really going to change, you've as much as told me so by refusing to accept that it's a problem and getting some help with it. i keep hoping and believing and every time you tell me to fuck off or remind me how useless i am because i dont go out to work or scare or belittle the kids for some minor misdemeanour that hope continues to disappear and my hatred of myself for letting it happen gets worse.

i hope you can see this email for what it is...not 'having a go', not letting myself off the hook for my share of the blame (I certainly know I'm "not so fucking perfect"), not feeling sorry for myself, just being totally brutally honest about the breakdown of my marriage and the seriously shitty outlook for my family - the people i love the most in the world - for the foreseeable future. its completely shit and i actually feel sorry for you in some ways that this was the way you were brought up, living with an angry man, so this is normal for you. im also really really angry that you would wish that sort of childhood on your children. and ultimately, you are their most important role model for life. they look to you for how a man should behave, in life and in relationships and they are learning to treat the people they love with disrespect and aggression. to use force and intimidation to get what they want rather than discussion and reasonable behaviour.

and also we as a couple should be showing them how relationships should be...loving, mutually respectful, reasonable, happy...i dont see much of that on either side. in fact most of what they see is disdain and silence. we should be ashamed of ourselves. i know i am.

but again, we carry on, making the same mistakes, covering the same ground, having the same conversation about what life should be like. it cant go on. i dont want it to anymore. i just wish you would see it and want to learn how to control it, because its time to decide what we really want to happen and make it happen

sorry, that was longer than i thought

I wouldn't send that to be honest. What do you think he is going to do? Play nice until he can get you back even worse is my guess?

You need to leave. Or kick him out.

hoping he'll get some help...bloody stupid i know. i don't want to be with him anymore even if he does. thing is, i've seen women's aid and told them everything that has happened and nothing is bad enough that he wont be able to still have the kids, so he'll still be able to treat them like he does but i wont be there to protect them. so it's a toss up between staying and being miserable and showing the children that this is what family is like (i know it's not, but they dont) but being able to keep them from harm or leaving and not being able to help should the shit hit the fan.

i know what i have to do, ive just spent so long being downtrodden that i need bit of outrage from others to give me the shove i need

What is the point ?

He won't get it. You are wasting your time.

It sounds like you've had a really horrendous time. Your DC are obviously the priority and they cannot live in this environment. It's damaging them and you have to protect them and keep them safe. I feel your empathy towards your DH in your email which is very heartfelt. I suppose the thing is he won't change. He'd need to acknowledge and accept he has a problem first. My only hesitation about you sending it is whether you and the children might be at even greater risk when he gets back. You are already in a very dangerous and damaging situation. Why don't you see a solicitor while he's away and apply for an order to stop him returning home. Legal aid is available if you qualify financially

I wrote my x endless letters and he ignored them all.

You need to release yourself from your imagined obligation to seek his understanding . He will not 'approve' your decision to leave. He will not tolerate being judged! Certainly not by you! He will focus obsessively on your faults and see your faults as proof that you have no right to judge him or end the relationship.

So dont waste yr time letter-writing

Forget e-mailing him or writing to him at all; its not going to work and won't make a hill of beans difference in the long run. He thinks that what he does re you and the kids is okay and feels entitled to behave as he does (probably his parents behave and behaved in similar ways also).

Your best course of action here is to begin divorce proceedings if you have not already done so. At the very least your children should no longer be exposed to this from their dad within their home, their home is anything but a sanctuary when he is present.

They don't change. You need to divorce him before your children's behaviour turns into your husband's. History seems to be already repeating itself with your son.

I know what you're saying is true. My problem is, when i leave , how can i stop it from happening? They will still witness/be victim to this behaviour, because he will still do it - I have no grounds for stopping him from seeing them

Don't send it, leave him, then deal with the issue of him having access to DSs when you get to it. He might decide he can't be bothered.

Agree to whatever he demands. Say of course with a blank expression stapled on. Instead of fighting with him for residency insinuate vaguely that you'd love to park the kids at his for half the week so you are foot loose and fancyfree. Nothing will have him leaving you all alone quicker.

You cant let that stop you you know. It is far more damaging to the mix to stay. I divorced an abusive man when my DDs were 2&3. He had them every other weekend and half the holidays.

I did my best to help them deal with seeing them. It was frightening for us all. At 8&9 they felt he went too far and we went to court to stop contact.

3 years on it's over. He's lost parental responsibility, legally they never have to see him again. He still doesn't think any of its his fault. He doesn't see anyone in his family. He is a hate filled angry man.

I am now married to the best DH I can imagine. He loves me, my DDs, and we are modeling the best possible relationship for our 4 DCs. I am 46.

It didn't happen overnight and I spent 6 years single and it took a very long time to put myself together again (after only 5 years together). MN made a huge difference. I did the freedom program when I started going out with my now DH and I realized I still had a packet of issues.

good to hear there is light at the end of the tunnel. do these men really never change? i occasionally feel like i'm making headway when I talk to him but then, maybe a few Anger Management apps appear on the tablet etc then...nothing. Is he just throwing me a bone to make me stay? He's no happier than I am, as all this just leads to endless rows and sulks.

No never. I left my abusive ex when my dd was 1. He hasn't seen her since she was 3. She is now 8.

They don't change. He even started therapy and she told me to run and don't look back. But he was a narc. They really really don't change. So he was even in therapy and recognised some of his behaviour wasn't right but didn't change.

Leave.

They don't change. My x is like Tom Cruise. He does this thing where he just presents his own reality and it's so forceful. Others around him accept it. If you challenge it, he is scarily furious on the inside but outwardly he mocks and undermines you.. The force behind his determination to discredit anybody who challenges him is so frightening. In the run up to leaving him he tried to strangle me, told me I had no idea how much he wanted me dead, and then five minutes later, feeling better because trying to strangle somebody is an excellent release for rage he brought me a cup of tea. I got up and brought it back to the kitchen. He then switched in to full on victim mode ranting and raving and whining for hours about how ungrateful and rude and hostile I was. This began within 15 minutes of him trying to strangle me and he was still feeling sorry for himself hours later. When I did escape he felt so angry and so sorry for himself. I really regret the 18 months I spent trying to make him understand. I thought if he understood, he'd be less angry. Years and years have passed and he is still angry. Angry that my stable, content, quiet, sane, civil, sensible, frugal life and my (our) confident, clever children undermine his script that I'm an ungrateful, hysterical, dramatic, selfish, impetuous, chaotic LIAR. He can't stand it.

Be careful leaving an angry man

Noooooo don't send. I've left an angry man but omg when he realised I was leaving him the hell he put me through was unimaginable. If you're going to leave him secretly and silently get everything together and then just leave you will never ever win against an angry man. Sending you strength

any advice/tips for getting out? can i legally take the children and leave without his agreement? can he just decide to take them right back? he's previously threatened to kill me if I ever try to take them away...(but of course 'everyone says things they don't mean when they're angry' - his version of an apology)

also, what do i say to the children without disrespecting their daddy?? they adore him.

i want my amazing kids coming from a broken home, shipped from parent to parent, no single place to call home

First off, totally disagree with this, your kids are far more damaged living with an angry man than with one calm (normal) parent!

I'd not send it either, he won't even take it in so what's the point. He won't ever change either, it's stay or go I'm afraid.

OP: I wrote a similar letter to my ex and posted on here about it and the replies were unanimous. Don't send it. I left a very angry man 6 months ago, and despite me telling him hundreds of times in the past and since his anger and moods were the problem even now he sends me messages asking why. He doesn't get it. i am pretty sure he is BPD but not diagnosed. When he is in an even mood he is great, but he flips at the click of a finger. But mainly only to me. Everyone else gets spared (and the kids).

I have managed just about to keep a civil relationship with him, but living without his moods is great. i still see him a bit as we too have kids. His relationship with them has improved 10 fold. He is much much calmer with them when he doesn't have me around. Even he has agreed the kids are happier, more relaxed etc.

It was the hardest decision I made, but the only one I could have made for my mental health. He won't listen to your email/ letter, he will use it to twist it back to you for being the cause of his anger. Get things lined up and act on a plan. Have you read the Lundy book "Why does he do that", I would advise you do to help you see though the behaviour.

Now when I am out and about I observe families, and rarely do I see any man treat his family like he did me, it isn't normal. Its isn't a healthy relationship. He probably won;t ever get help and be an angry man for the rest of his life, but you do NOT need to live like that.

Good luck OP.

Oh and about the kids: how old are they? Mine knew and totally understood and they are 6 and 9. Sometimes the kids ask why we left, and I ask them what they think and they always reply "cos daddy was always angry". They know, that is not to say it hasn't been difficult at times, but on the whole all of us (apart form him but he will never be happy), are much much more relaxed.

You do not need his permission or his co-operation to end the marriage. Women's Aid will be able to help and advise you as to whether it would be better to take the DC and find somewhere else for you all to live, or take steps to have this man excluded from the family home.
It's possible to make contact sufficiently difficult for him that he will give up - some of these scumbag men much prefer to sit in the pub whining and ranting about 'bitch won't let me see my kids' to actually seeing their DC.

can i legally take the children and leave without his agreement?

yes (inside the country)

can he just decide to take them right back?

yes

OP: just read the bit about the threat to you if you leave. He is an abusive person, be very careful, watch your log in on here etc. Think about practicalities. I left him in the family home and left with the kids. For 2 weeks they were with me, then we started having a few overnights. Now the kids see him every other weekend and on Mondays and Tuesdays. There has not been an issue with dropping the kids off and they on the whole enjoy being with him. He has stepped up a bit. Which is a good thing. i am not suggesting he will be the same, he might be a total nightmare, but you just have to take a day as it comes.

Do you have any savings? Would he leave? Do you work?

I wouldn't send it. He isn't going to say 'oh yes, I've been horrific and I can't blame you for your decision'. I would focus on action and taking steps to protect you and your children from the fallout. Did he make a verbal threat to kill you if you left?

Your post is so heartfelt OP and we all 'get' it and see what you are saying but to an angry man what you say is just more information for him to use to manipulate him.

Leaving is the most dangerous time of all.

Please take your time to consider what you really want to do.

You can find out more by reading the book 'Why does he do that'. It will make complete sense to you.