Why we're not engaged?

[Sorryforthechange123]

Hi everyone,

This is something that is really getting to me recently.

My partner and I have been together for over 4 years. We spend a lot of time together, we have a great relationship, we openly plan our future together, we talk about buying a house, planning to have kids etc. But - we're not engaged.

Now, maybe I'm getting the pressure to get into to me too much, because I understand that every relationship gets there in their own pace, but... I'm ready. What is more, he knows I'm ready as sometimes we talk about it, but that's where it ends. Just talk.

To preempt the question why it is so important to me right now? One of the reasons is that my father is not very well and I would really want him to witness my wedding and walk me down the isle. The longer we wait, the less possible this becomes. Yes, my DP knows about it.

What would you do?

He's not a man of big gestures and sometimes I think maybe it will never happen. No, I don't want to propose myself.

I agree that it doesn't have to be financially tricky for unmarried women with DC, but I do think it's a bad idea to become financially dependant on someone you're not married to, ie becoming a SAHM, unless you have an income coming in from somewhere.

I wonder how many men wouldn't drag their heels so much if they didn't find the prospect of £££££ being spent on a single day a bit much to swallow. I bet you anything you like it's the women who insist on being proposed to that spend thousands on a wedding.

I doubt that rivertam.

Which bit?

OP - a lot of people in her will tell you to propose to him, but the fact is, doing that is still quite unusual and not something most women actually want to do. Anyway, you have stated you don't want to do that.

I don't agree that men are less interested in marriage than women either. They just want to feel that they are at the right point in their life - psychologically, financial stability, etc. They probably don't feel the biological clock ticking though in the same way as women - so maybe the push factors are a bit different. It's not actually that hard to buy a ring is it. I think some women underestimate men and make too many excuses.

It shouldn't need to be hard work. DH and I had agreed to move in together when we were the same ages as you and your DP, but just before that he took me on holiday and surprised me with a ring. It was a surprise because moving in to his apartment was a big step for me as it was! Anyway, we're still married 16 years later and with 4 DC.

I think all you can do here is tell him how you feel about your DF and see if he grasps why this is important to you. You can't really force him to do anything and what would be the point anyway. I'm sure he will propose when he feels ready, but I hope (for you) its sooner tather than later. Maybe when his friends start doing it / talking about it? Good luck!

The second bit. IMO and IME the cost of a wedding/ring are not significant factors in the decisions of men who don't wish to marry their partners.

What does he say when you ask him? We can speculate for ever but you live with the bloke.
"Are you going to marry me?"
"If you are - when?"

Then you will know. No point asking us.

While I was delighted with the prospect of actually being married, the idea of the wedding terrified me because my family are mad and the thought of the politics and stress of all that was enough to put me off. It was DH who wanted the "big day" and invited hundreds of people and the whole shebang, but I survived.

Or, rather than "Are you going to marry me?" -which makes him the active partner and you the passive recipient - ask "Are we going to get married? If so, when?"

In my experience, if a man wants to marry you, he'll propose. He won't wait until "some point in the future" or any other excuse

In my experience, and so many others on this thread, you're wrong!

Many women don't want to propose or say we want to get married. I did (cohabiting before DC or any shared major financial commitments) and DP didn't wish to marry me at that time. I stayed as the relationship was otherwise good but had decided in my own mind to leave if he hadn't changed his mind within a year, which he did and proposed.

IME there is social pressure on women not to propose and social disapproval for even raising the topic with a partner. And pressure on younger men in particular not to get married.

I proposed to my husband... I gave him an external hard drive instead of a ring.

I decided I'd rather do that than hints and I've never really regretted it. But there is occasionally the slight twinge in that I never got the big romantic proposal to me - in the scheme of a lifetime that shouldn't really matter though.

He asked me why I wanted to get married and I said something about wanting to be each other's family and being together forever - he got almost offended in that he thought we had that already (we already had the house but not kids). I guarantee you that he'd never have proposed off his own bat without a lot of hinting from me. Marriage was important to me not him so I had to lead the way.

We did buy me a ring about a week later as people were a bit weird about me having one and we wanted it to feel official.

My point is not to pressure you to propose (since you've said you don't want to) but rather to say that you two can find the route that works for you - taking into account a chronically unromantic partner.

ah - I had a DP like this. i also posted a thread like this. you will get three types of response: (i) propose yourself; (ii) you are an idiot for moving in with him and its all your fault (why buy the cow when you get the milk for free - sexist bollocks if ever i heard it); (iii) posts telling you to sit him down and tell him you would like to get married and soon.

I went for the third approach. it took some courage and wine, but we had a very frank conversation. As of Friday, he is my husband. my DP is a very intelligent chap but also monumentally bad at picking up on subtle hints/reading between the lines. he had no idea that it was so important to me and that i saw the timeline of our relationship differently.

also - for most adult relationships I know, there was no "surprise proposal". it had already been discussed and for many, there had been ultimatums.

its terrifying - but spit it out and say it to him clearly.

There must be something terribly wrong with my DH, my Dad, both my brothers and a lot of my friends if no normal men want to get married for their own reasons and have to be bullied to propose or dragged kicking and screaming to the registry office

(i) My wife (then GF) asked me if I wanted to get engaged some 26 years ago or so. I said 'yes'. Her sister, taking a leaf from her book, asked the same thing of her boyfriend. His reply was 'If you like.' Wrong answer.

Actually, my ex asked me to marry her when we'd only been going out two months. I said no, it was far too soon. She asked again four months later. I still thought that was too soon but agreed to move in together.

God I wish I hadn't.... But fair play for her for asking. I had no male pride to bruise, it's hugely flattering to be asked out or proposed to by a woman. Don't understand why people of either sex have an issue with it in this day and age when equality is supposed to be so much better.

That wasn't flattering shatnerswig, that was what's referred to on MN as a "red flag", which you didn't heed!

Agree with your general point though, for proposals/frank talks in longer established relationships!

In my experience, if a man wants to marry you, he'll propose.

If a man wants to possess you, he will propose. If he sees you as a partner he will commonly either not propose or he will discuss marriage with you as a partner would, not so much romantically but more broadly as a life commitment. Like a joint bank account (now that is scary).

You, being a full agent responsible for your own self esteem, will talk to him about marriage in a way such that his proposal is not seen as a sacred offering to you that affirms your desirability to him above all other women.

DadWasHere - what do you mean, "If a man wants to possess you, he'll propose?" I think that's a bit extreme.
Most men just like to surprise the GF and think it's a meaningful / memorable / romantic thing to do.

Surely getting married is a conversation between the two of you, not a surprise? You're both adults, you live together and have done for a while, you're presumably settled and happy with your lives. If you both want to get married someday (and I'm assuming you've already had that conversation) then it's a discussion you need to have regarding changing your legal status.

That said, you're quite young compared to my friends (who almost all got married at 32) so perhaps he hasn't really thought it needs doing yet? If you haven't told him you want to get married so your dad can walk you down the aisle, I doubt he's thought of it himself.

You do not have to be married to have security, it just takes a bit more thought and research. There are situations where it would make a difference (mainly on inheritance tax) but a chat with a legal advisor will sort everything out. We've been together 11 years, not getting married unless financially imperative, all our shit is willed to each other, we own a house together, all our life insurance etc goes to each other as do our pensions. It's do-able, just a bit more of a hassle. And let's face it - marriage is no guarantee that he won't turn out to be a rotter who runs off with your best mate and the contents of the joint account.

If you want to be married but won't ask him yourself then you should tell him you want to marry and want him to ask you.

IME his response will tell you all you need to know. After four years together his reply may well be 'No' but caged in equivocal terms like 'I will when the time is right' or 'I want it to be romantic', which is a 'No' and means he wants you to keep hanging on and then may dump you when someone he does want to marry comes along.

IMO you could use a whole rethink of your relationship. Your future (a much better one) may lie with someone else who does respect you.

Not sure about the taking his name thing though, I think that is really old fashioned. yet still hugely popular in many areas!

If you want to marry him, ask him. Then you will have your answer.

If you are living in some kind of period drama waiting for the man to indicate his desire then you get what you deserve.

Thank you everyone for input. It certainly gave me some things to consider and think about.

In some instances, I've been quite surprised that people can be so judgmental and rude, but each to their own.

To answer some of the questions asked:

1. We do talk about this. The answer I usually get is "when the time is right". I am not entirely sure when "right time" is and what constitutes that the time is not right right now.
2. We can't just go to the registry and get married. My family lives abroad and can't travel. Since my father is a partial (but not main one!) reason why I would want to get married rather sooner than later (meaning waiting another 5-10 years), it has to be more organised than that.
3. The reasons why I want to get married are because I want more financial security. We have a flat (my DP owns it) but I pay towards it. It started bothering me because I think it's time to change this arrangement, especially if we're to talk about buying a house/having kids.
4. I genuinely don't want a big wedding, expensive ring etc. Wouldn't want to go into debt over a wedding. He knows that. It's purely about commitment, finances and something to celebrate with friends and family.
5. We are financially stable and have good jobs/careers.
6. I think the reason why I posted here is to get some opinion on how to handle this - I don't want to feel like by talking about it or stating what I want, he will be pressured to do it. Or should he be? That's where I am a bit confused as, as you can see, I don't have much experience in this whole engagement/marriage field...