Why we're not engaged?

[Sorryforthechange123]

Hi everyone,

This is something that is really getting to me recently.

My partner and I have been together for over 4 years. We spend a lot of time together, we have a great relationship, we openly plan our future together, we talk about buying a house, planning to have kids etc. But - we're not engaged.

Now, maybe I'm getting the pressure to get into to me too much, because I understand that every relationship gets there in their own pace, but... I'm ready. What is more, he knows I'm ready as sometimes we talk about it, but that's where it ends. Just talk.

To preempt the question why it is so important to me right now? One of the reasons is that my father is not very well and I would really want him to witness my wedding and walk me down the isle. The longer we wait, the less possible this becomes. Yes, my DP knows about it.

What would you do?

He's not a man of big gestures and sometimes I think maybe it will never happen. No, I don't want to propose myself.

Why would anyone want to get married to someone really passive about what they want, though? That argument goes both ways.

To me, the whole problem with this is the utter circus of getting married. If the focus was on the state of being married I bet there wouldn't be half this agonising. Two people agree together to be married. They get married. The end.

You need to sit down and have a serious chat with him about it...me and my partner got engaged after 5.5 years together and I know he only done it because I would not shut up about it and think I was extra needy cause I was pregnant at the time. U don't want to force him to ask u if he doesn't want to, and then u will get frustrated if he doesn't want to plan a wedding soon after

I agree with banana. Nearly everyone I know had to put a bit of pressure on the man to get married. I honestly believe that most men would be happy never to get married. I include myself, my 3 SIL's and most of my friends. None of them are divorced after decades together and the men seem happy enough. The giggles we have had over some of our relatives calling up saying how surprised they were when DP popped the question out of the blue when we know they have been putting pressure on them for ages. One off my friends is a stunning blond woman and her DP is a bit of a twat. She went out with him for 15 years and after seeing her best friend fall pregnant and get married she said enough is enough and finished with him. Days later he proposed.

On the other hand I do know a few couples were the man has surprised them with a proposal. In all of these cases the woman was way out of their league.

I'm 27, will have been with DP 10 years next week. We have two children. We've talked about marriage lots over the years. He probably is the type to propose but since we've talked about it so much it would hardly be a romantic surprise so we've decided to just do it. Mainly because I want the same surname as my sons and to have that final bit of legal commitment in case something happens to us. So we're paying £44 to go to just a little office in our county hall to sign everything. You don't need an engagement and all that crap. I suspect for a lot of people it's more about the wedding than the marriage.

Have you thought he doesn't seem keen because he's not sure he wants to be with you forever.

Old fashioned yes but happily married for 25 years!!! It's fine if you're not fussed about getting wed, but if you want to be married you have to make it clear. A poster up thread hit the nail on the head, if a man wants to marry you, he will ask, not dither for years, don't waste time waiting for others timescales, if he doesn't want to marry you, now, after four years, move on!!!

That might depend on the size of the diamond PigletWasPoohsFriend

Seriously OP, it's not complicated. Say to him "are we getting married, if so when would you like to do it?". That's it. If he says yes, then you are engaged. Lose the ridiculous romantic instagram proposal ideas, and concentrate on being married not "weddinged".

As RiverTam said, there's literally nothing to plan. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

The only blokes I know who were eager to get married are the ones who weren't living with their girlfriend.

I firmly believe that if you want your partner to never bother his arse about whether you're married or not, move in with him. Cos chances are all he'll see about marriage is unnecessary expense with the end result of exactly the same set up.

If he knows it's not a deal breaker for you and you're happy to be his "common law wife" (which doesn't actually exist) without the expense (and the rights) then why would he bother?

Do not have children without the protection of marriage.

What is all this "proposal" shit? I really don't get it. If you've discussed getting married, then surely you are engaged? Why are women sitting around waiting for a grand gesture? It's faintly sick-making in a supposedly equal relationship.

If you have chatted, have you chatted about getting married first?

My dh knew from the beginning that I wasn't going down the house buying and children route UNTIL I was married.

It wasn't a need to get married now conversation. Just a 'this is want I want in life'

If he knows that marriage comes before anything else then that may help with the procrastination.

If you haven't already, just say we won't buying a house or having children until we are married. If you don't want marriage then let me know now.

I am with people who say - marriage is not necessary for happiness.
However, this ends at the point when you realise that you want children. And that - often leads to choices and compromises in life - job, etc. that unfortunately affects women more than men.
If UK recognised a common law marriage - like Scandinavia - it won't be the case.

I am, forever surprised at the number of women here on FB - with many children and DP. And then - when 'he cheated', or 'I want to leave but will be ruined as I don't work' messages make me angry. Both at the system that doesn't protect these women. And at the men who had their cake and ate it. And at the women who let it happen to them.

OP - just decide what's important for you. You are still young. And there is no big rush. But, at the same time - there is a little pressure to figure out what you want.

And, as to proposing yourself - it is a 21st century. Really, has been for a while now.

DH and I discussed the benefits of marriage and then we got married. We didn't have an engagement. We didn't want a build up to a big wedding.

Great post by Elspeth

I am better off financially not being married despite the fact I have children and am female.

Do not recommend marriage as financial protection when you know nothing about the persons financial state, or that of their potential spouse.

Here is what you say instead : for some people marriage can offer financial and legal protection. Get legal and financial advice to protect your interests before committing to any large life decision especially cohabiting, marriage or childbearing.

Well, if you are not prepared to take control of your own life and propose to him, then you're stuck working to his timetable, aren't you? He'll propose when and if he wants to, you'll wait to be asked like the good little woman.

Or you could just have a discussion about it like grown-up people.

We got engaged at your point - 27 and 30 with 4 years under our belt. However we both agreed we wanted to buy our flat before it happened (he proposed the day we got the keys). Do you think there's a similar thinking with him? For us the security of getting on the ladder was more important than spending on a ring before that was sorted.

That said I did make clear I wouldn't consider children until we were married. It would be too big a risk in my circumstances.

I know this is sexist (assuming all individuals of one gender are the same) but many men I know have trouble connecting the dots. I didn't live with my then boyfriend. About a year into it I asked him where he saw us and himself in 3-4 years time. He saw us married, with a house, and a kid. I then asked him if he wanted to be living together for a while before having a kid. And he said yes at least 2-3 years.

So 2-3 years of living together (post marriage because I wouldn't live together before), and a year to plan a wedding (abroad because we are both from Asia) = we should be getting engaged in the next few months.

It was like a lightbulb went off. We went ring shopping and watch shopping (for him) that week and he "proposed" a few days later. It wasn't the romantic surprise proposal that many seem to love, but I quite like being in control of my destiny. We got a modest engagement ring because most people look for one; I bought him a similarly expensive watch. I'm also glad I went with him because otherwise he was leaning towards larger stones that his friends wives wear, but that I'd look ridiculous in.

What elspeth said.

What on earth happens when two women want to get married and they're both old fashioned and want the other person to propose?

Do you both have careers and savings etc on track? Personally I don't want my partner to propose to me until my career is well under way (starting now). I want us to be sorted individually before looking into engagement / marriage. I'm your age. But I do understand with your dad why it would be important to you, I too, have this to consider. are we the same people ??

ShatnersWig - well, exactly! Presumably they both sit in miserable silence for ever...

Important to consider financial/legal issues.

Buying a property together is a huge financial commitment. I wasn't happy to do that until after marriage.

Obviously having DC is the biggest one, and if you're not married and don't have independent wealth then SAH or even working PT after DC is a huge financial risk.

I agree with Purple though women are historically lower earners than men so it's still quite unusual. I was in the position of earning more than my ex partner, which he really struggled with.

So for most women marriage does afford financial protection but only because they earn less or become a SAHP and don't earn anything. That's no criticism of SAHP it's their choice but it comes with a risk.

Personally I am very much get financial independence and balls to relying on a man. Yep I'm married and we have incredibly odd financial arrangements according to MN. Totally seperate but some adjustments so that our actual assets are of a similar size.

I wasn't bothered about marrying ever but ended up having four proposals. I always think it's because they saw me as a huge challenge. Like Everest but more difficult. I accepted three but broke off two. I accepted DH proposal after he asked for the third time, we had been friends for three years, dating for six months.

Remember you are worth more than anything any man has to offer.

There are lots of books and free online info about cohabiting, so you can consider your personal circumstances.

It's not just SaH that's a financial risk if you're not married: working PT is also a financial / career risk, including in the longer term.