DH - tantrums - not sure what to do

[popcorn123]

Hi

Looking for advice on how to deal with difficult behaviour from DH. Have 2 DS's 28 and 12 months. Have had a generally good relationship but have always been the one who did all housework, paying bills etc which caused resentment even before children. He has always had "tantrums" as long as I have known him - smash/punch objects, scream and shout and then in a major huff for ages. Sometimes with minimal provacation. These were infrequent and although I knew I should have been dealing with it, I ignored it.

Since children have come on the scene thing as much worse. I do just about everthing - all childcare, housework, nigh feeds, cooking, paying bills etc. He occassionally helps a bit but is usually short lived. He spends time with DS's - but only plays with them. If I challenge this I get told "do you know how hard I work". "My job is very stressful and I have nothing else to give" " you are better at it" etc.

If he feels stressed and I ask him for help or he feels he is not getting enough attention (e.g after DS2 was born -recently when I had extra work to do in the evening then his beviour gets worse.
He will loose his temper shout through chairs around and tell me that his behaviour is all my fault. This can be infront of DS's and DS1 gets very upset which doesn;t stop him. He told DS1 several times this week that "mummy is very bad to daddy" DS1 can also get shouted at if he is in the wrong place .
If I am in full control of the children. housework and still am able to dedicate my eveing to him he is OK but if something upsets this balance he becomes unstable.

Over the past year I have tried talking to him when calm, writing letters to try and help and read several relationship books to try and see what I can do but the cycle still continues.

He ultimately believes that his needs are greater.g his work is harder, his rest time is more important.

He treat his own family with the same lack of respect but seems oblivious to why people have no time for hime.

I think he is depressed just now but won't go to GP due to pride and a fear that his employers would find out which would affect future employment.

His parents had/have a difficult relationship but I was never subject to anything like this and I am terrified of the effects this is having on DS's

How can I deal with it. At the moment I am ignoring him and only having essential conversation. He will calm down soon and will be more help for a short time but then the cycle will continue.

What can I do?

I'm not sure what you can do, but just wanted to make you aware that this will undoubtedly have effects on the children. What he is doing is verbal abuse, ie: shouting, screaming, making you afraif for the boys & yourself.

Try & make him seek advice from his GP, anger management sounds like it might be the most beneficial.

He sounds awful.

Horridly selfish.

Sounds like you are being bullied to me.

I'd be the worm that turned.

My gut but unhelpful response would be "leave him". He sounds thoroughly selfish and like having a further child around. My more considered response would be whether he would be willing to attend any relate type counselling to try and break this cycle of tantrumming aggressive behaviour. As you describe his behaviour it sounds rather scary, bordering on the abusive; possibly you would find it helpful looking at the Women's Aid website or talking to one of their workers on the phone.

Counselling? Maybe if a third party agrees that he's unreasonable he'll get it. He sounds awful, it must be like having 3 children. In the meantime, he doesn't have to be hitting you for it to be abuse, Womens aid

Anger management sounds essential but I'm not sure he would be open to that. Does he even realise it's a problem? That is, not the issue that you would like him to do more to help but how he handles disagreements?

You need to be really strong and think about your boys. Can you speak to his parents and get their support? At the end of the day your sons learn how to be men from (partially) the example shown to them - is this the example you want them shown? Regardless of how scary it must be for your sons, it shows complete lack of respect for you by making comments like that to them.

But then that's so easy to say when it's not my relationship which is under threat by all that throws up so I really feel for you because I can see how stuck you must feel.

I hope another mumsnetter comes along who has much more experience, and I really hope you can sort it out for the sake of you and your sons.

Why should you have to "deal with him"? He's the one in the wrong. HE needs to sort it out or risk losing his family.

Hi

He doesn't realise this is a problem and would not be open to anger management. He is very selfish. He has little respect for his Mum for reasons that I only partially understand and deep down knew that this would be transferrred onto me.He believes he is a good husband because he earns a good wage, doesn't hit me, drink or have affairs and I believe he doesn't understand why I get frustrated with him.

I don't want to give empty threats so I will not threaten to leave as I do not think I will do this in the forseeable future (hopefully never - if canbe sorted) but will have to make this public and discuss with his parents as this may make him realise that I am genuinely upset and fearful for my family.

In between time he is very calm and great with the boys and you would never know that he could get so angry but it always happens again.

Have had a look on a few anger management websites and he fits the criteria exactly - believing that he should not be subject to any minor inconviences and that the world is against him. He is weak emotionally in the outside world and wants me to support him in ways that I don't know how but does not pull his weight at home.

I have to make this problem real in my mind so that I stop ignoring it.

I understand, popcorn. I'm just that it has to be you that fixes it and not your selfish husband.

How awful. He seems abit of a bully to me. Are you really prepared to live like that?? I would try to get him to gp he might be sufferiong from depression and he's taking it out on you. Not sure what to say really, but i hope you can work things out for all of your sakes.

I agree happydaddy.

When you?ve spoken to him when things are calm, how does he react? How is your relationship during the times when he is not exhibiting these behaviours?

When he tells your ds1 that ?mummy is very bad to daddy? do you defend yourself? Do you tell your ds1 that this is not the case? Or do you just let it ride?

Ultimately, the things your children see when they are growing up are what they will view as the norm, so e.g. if you don?t work and daddy does they?ll consider this to be normal, if mummy does all the cooking they will consider this to be normal, if daddy plays football with them every weekend they will consider this to be normal, if daddy shouts constantly at mummy and throws chairs and smashes things they will consider it to be normal.

Your husband is transferring this behaviour on to his children, and as they are sons too it is very likely that they will go on to treat their partners in a similar way unless something is done.

How do you see your future? Can you go on like this for the next 5? 10? 25 years? For the rest of your life? Is this how you see the rest of your life? Or do you think that you deserve better? Because you do you know,

Hi

I do believe that I deserve better but what is holding me back is a stong nagging doubt that he is right and I if I was a better wife he wouldn't do that. I look at other people whose husbands are great and think "what do they do differntly to me". I know that his beviour is totally unacceptable and I should demand more respect but something keeps stopping me. I am also embarrassed to admit that I am in this mess as deep down I had doubt's when I married him but I assumed that everone had these doubt's as most of the time he was fine.

Hi

I do believe that I deserve better but what is holding me back is a stong nagging doubt that he is right and I if I was a better wife he wouldn't do that. I look at other people whose husbands are great and think "what do they do differntly to me". I know that his beviour is totally unacceptable and I should demand more respect but something keeps stopping me. I am also embarrassed to admit that I am in this mess as deep down I had doubt's when I married him but I assumed that everone had these doubt's as most of the time he was fine.

Popcorn, I am horrified that you in any way think this is your fault. it is NOT. It is his fault. He is not your responsibility. Please think about yourself and your boys. He needs a short, sharp shock to make him realise that his behaviour is completely unacceptable. Can you leave for a short while to make him face his behaviour?

Hi Popcorn

I totally agree with pageturner.

None of this is your fault. You are not responsible for your husbands behavior or his actions.

What i have learned is, that while ever we stay and put up with it, tolerate it and try to find a way to live with it, we are in a sense giving them our permission to continue this mistreatment of us. They never have to suffer the consequence of their actions.

Meanwhile you will find yourself becoming exhausted, mentally and physically.
Although i know its not easy, my advice would be to get out now, while you still have the strength to do so.

There's a mumsnetter who has been through similar stuff to you popcorn.

I don't think she's around atm, but I'll try and find her later and point her in this direction and she may be able to give you some advice/share her experience.

Hope that's ok with you.

would you treat a stranger like this?
would he treat his workcollegues like this?

what is it that makes you a lesser person?

my husband thought i would always be there. he couldnt act like a twat at work becuase he would get fired.

he never considered the fact that he could get fired at home too. until i left.

nly then did he agree to go to marriage guidence and anger management. It was a condition of my rturn.

you will find that you are doing things automatically so he doesn't lose his temper - rying to pre-empt - walking on eggshells.

it doesn't work.

i ended up stammering and faultering when he asked me for an opinion - in case i got it wrong. i still do it.

he sounds like my dad. it was horrible. scroll 30 years on and my brother is a bully to his wife and my sister and i both have had abusive relationships. not now though.

your children will be ripe targets for bullies as that is what they are used to.

you are letting your children down by staying with this man and letting him behave like that. Your choice, they can't choose yet but they will when they grow up.

If he doesn't think there is a problem you have to show him there is. If that doesn't work then you have to think very seriously about what to do next.

Hi popcorn

Please think carefully as to whether you wish to give up 20 years or more of your life to this man.

I have a friend, who was married to a man similar to your husband. Being around him in a social context was uncomfortable for he would at a drop of a hat take offense at any innocent comment. At home, he was a total control freak to her and their children, he would scream and shout at them in the home and street.

He wanted to be in control all the time. He didn't offer any help in the house and said those exact words to her, even though she worked full time. 'My job is more important than yours'.

I begged her, for over 10 years or so to leave him, but she is a kind soul and thought that he may change in time.

She has finally got a divorce and often says that she may be 'poorer' now, but the joy of not having to encounter him in the house is so uplifting for her and their children.

She may lose the house, money is tight, but the months that she has lived without him has made her wish she had asked for a divorce sooner.

I wish you contentment in whatever decision you come to, it will not be easy to face the fact that this man may not have your best interests at heart.

bookend

Popcorn...in one post you say you are 'feaful for your family' and yet you won't leave him? Why?

Why is his hapiness more important that that of your por DC's and your own?

Please speak to your family and see what help you can get.

You pay the bills, Popcorn? Do you mean he gives you the money, or do you have a job as well?

Hi popcorn123,

This comment of yours is so fatuous it breaks my heart:-

"but what is holding me back is a stong nagging doubt that he is right and I if I was a better wife he wouldn't do that".

Do you realise that you are saying the self same thing as other women who are abused by their husband/partner say?. You're implying that its never his fault. These are classic thoughts of abused women be they physically and/or emotionally abused.

"I look at other people whose husbands are great and think "what do they do differntly to me". I know that his beviour is totally unacceptable and I should demand more respect but something keeps stopping me. I am also embarrassed to admit that I am in this mess as deep down I had doubt's when I married him but I assumed that everone had these doubt's as most of the time he was fine".

These other women don't behave any differently from your own self but the difference here is that fundamentally their husband/partner is not abusive.

What is stopping you from getting more respect?.

You had doubts beforehand; oh how I wish you acted sooner on them. However, hindsight is a wonderful thing. You can help your own self and your children by seeking help today from somewhere like Womens Aid and getting this out into the open. This needs to be done - its a no brainer here.

He may not be able to be "fixed". You certainly cannot fix him and you should not even try to. You cannot act as someone's rescuer or saviour in a relationship - I think you have tried to save him from his own demons to date.

Do you really want your own children to carry out these self same behaviours to their wives or partners?. Of course not. If you really want to help your own children and I think you do you will address these issues now.

You have more power than you realise - you need to believe in your own self.

every nerve in my body is screaming 'get out out out now!' for your ds sake as well as your own. Easy to say harder to do.

Why stay with him? what's good about him that makes it worth putting up with this?

Hi

Thanks for all your comments -certainly has put me in touch with reality. He was in a calmer mood today (not difficult all the time) and I will talk to him about behaviour. I really don't believe that he thinks he is doing anything wrong. What I meant by paying the bills is I do the paperwork required. We have a joint bank account. We both work. I work part time since DS1 born. His dad treated him the same and he doesn't know anything else but he is an intelligent, well educated man and can think for himself.
I have not mentioned this to my family (they can see for themselves that he is not very supportive) but not anything else. They would be supportive but I don't want to burden them.
Oh I have to find a way to deal with this.

Popcorn, if you don't want to leave him, please work on your own self-esteem and self-worth. You are still with him because you seem to think you 'deserve' him and his behaviour. Even if you can't see past that - your children don't deserve to grow up with an emotionally incontinent father. You can't change his behaviour, only your own.