DH - tantrums - not sure what to do

[popcorn123]

Hi

Looking for advice on how to deal with difficult behaviour from DH. Have 2 DS's 28 and 12 months. Have had a generally good relationship but have always been the one who did all housework, paying bills etc which caused resentment even before children. He has always had "tantrums" as long as I have known him - smash/punch objects, scream and shout and then in a major huff for ages. Sometimes with minimal provacation. These were infrequent and although I knew I should have been dealing with it, I ignored it.

Since children have come on the scene thing as much worse. I do just about everthing - all childcare, housework, nigh feeds, cooking, paying bills etc. He occassionally helps a bit but is usually short lived. He spends time with DS's - but only plays with them. If I challenge this I get told "do you know how hard I work". "My job is very stressful and I have nothing else to give" " you are better at it" etc.

If he feels stressed and I ask him for help or he feels he is not getting enough attention (e.g after DS2 was born -recently when I had extra work to do in the evening then his beviour gets worse.
He will loose his temper shout through chairs around and tell me that his behaviour is all my fault. This can be infront of DS's and DS1 gets very upset which doesn;t stop him. He told DS1 several times this week that "mummy is very bad to daddy" DS1 can also get shouted at if he is in the wrong place .
If I am in full control of the children. housework and still am able to dedicate my eveing to him he is OK but if something upsets this balance he becomes unstable.

Over the past year I have tried talking to him when calm, writing letters to try and help and read several relationship books to try and see what I can do but the cycle still continues.

He ultimately believes that his needs are greater.g his work is harder, his rest time is more important.

He treat his own family with the same lack of respect but seems oblivious to why people have no time for hime.

I think he is depressed just now but won't go to GP due to pride and a fear that his employers would find out which would affect future employment.

His parents had/have a difficult relationship but I was never subject to anything like this and I am terrified of the effects this is having on DS's

How can I deal with it. At the moment I am ignoring him and only having essential conversation. He will calm down soon and will be more help for a short time but then the cycle will continue.

What can I do?

Hi popcorn, sorry to hear you are struggling with your husbands temper issues. I can relate to a lot of what you describe, as my your husband sounds very similar to mine (well soon to be ex husband now!), and I know how easy it is to feel at fault for making them angry, because they convince us that this is the case!

I started posting about my struggles with H's temper, over 2 years back, and was alarmed that he was being described as abusive, because he had never physically hurt me & emotional abuse is a very hard one to get your head around.

I ended up seeking advice from my HV, getting him into anger management (told him that he either tried this, or I was off) & I had counselling myself.

When all failed I decided to take steps to end my marriage, but it took me a long time to get to that point.

I would start by having a very serious talk with him & letting him know that you need him to try & make changes. Let him now that you are not prepared to put up with his behaviour, and let him know how it is affecting the children.

I would also reccomend talking to your HV (mine has been a great help) & seeing what she can do to support you.

I know how it messes with your head when they are suddenly all calm & nice...it feels like you've almost imagined their horrible side, and this is what makes it all so hard.

I hope you manage to sort something out. Feel free to contact me if ever you want to chat.x

Thanks Themessyone

That is exactly my situation. Over the past couple of days I have thought long and hard about the effects this is having on me. At first I thiught none but now I realise I don't visit my parents in the evening now as he complains that they are more important than him and then expects me to make it up to him by staying up late to watch a DVD etc. He has gradually made me feel guilty about devoting my time to anyone other than him. DS1 was very frightened by the last outburst which has triggired these posts. If you were to deal with the situation again how would you do it? Last night he was calm, was watched TV and had a glass of wine. I then said calmly what are we going to do about your temper, you can't go on behaving like this you are frightening me and DS1. He was silent for a minute then launched into how I "push buttons" and cause it.He can't cope with life and I don't care. I said if he didn't deal with it he would have to leave. He aggressively asked me to leave the room and I did and we havn't spoke since.
Do I ask him to leave if he refuses to accpet it is a problem. I don't have anywhere to go and I don't want to uproot the children and all their belongings at home.

Just wanted to keep this 'bumped' for you popcorn.

{{{Hugs}}} and to hear your situation is so tough.

My DH can have explosions like this too, but not as often as your's seems to have. But he has admitted it is because of depression and has agreed that it never happens in front of DS and since discovering our local priest is trained in mental health counselling he often goes to the priest if he feels 'low' rather than taking it out on me like he used to.

I know it seems hard but I think if he won't be shocked out of realising there is a problem then you should try and leave, temporarily, unless he is prepared to leave. I know it seems harsh 'uprooting' your children, but people are right that in the long term them having an emotionally abusive father is much worse than them not living at home for a bit.

Perhaps there are hostels if you'd rather not stay with family, or have you a good friend who could put you up for a bit?

Good luck and be brave.

Remember, it's not your fault he is like this. He's got the problem, not you. And ordering you agressively out of the room - that's just not on. A marriage should be an equal partnership, not one of 'master and slave'.

I agree with HappyDaddy and pageturner. None of this is in any way at all your fault. Poor you, living with a bully, it must be very stressful. Am for you too.

Poor you, popcorn, I'm so sorry you are going through all this.

When I originally started to post on here about my husband, I posted under the name of stressedmummy. If you do a search for this name, you can read up on my situation at the time.

One thing I would never do, was to try & confront H when he was angry - I wouldn't dare! I would always have a big talk with him once he had calmed down though, as this was the time when things were more likely to get through.
I would let him know how much I struggled with his behaviour, how much he frightened me & how he also scared the boys.
I made it clear that if there were no changes, I would leave for the sake of my boys.
It is so so hard though, and it did take me a couple of years to reach that point.

Hope you are ok, popcorn. Remember that you are not to blame for his behaviour.x

Have you thought about going to relate hyourself popcorn to talk it through with a third party and to put it all into some sort of perspective.

I wouldn't be able to put up with this sort of behaviour and hate the idea that your sons will see their fathers treatment of you and them as normal.....

Yes have thought about going myself although will ask husband if he will come with me (answer almost certainly no). Am having trouble coming to terms with what everyone is saying. Thought the response would be different and I was making a fuss over nothing but the more I think about it the more I realise how I watch what I say and do to avoid agro. I think I am going to have to leave for a while as if I stay I will back down if he is nice for a while and the process slowly startd again but I have to do something about my self-esteem regardless of the outcome.MIL watches DC while I work so worried about how she will take me standing up for myself, mums always seem to defend their sons.

Its bad that he does that in front of your children!! They may grow up to think this is acceptable and it will surely frighten them? I'd leave him to be honest with you, you are not a slave and do not deserve to be treated like one! So what if his job is stressful? Is his job a 24/7 one like yours looking after your 2 DS's AND him?

Hi Popcorn123,

Everything that you write points to you as an emotionally abused woman.

If he does not go to counselling go on your own.

Why should you be the one who has to go, he should be the one who leaves. You need legal advice first and foremost asap re the property. Some solicitors do free half hour consultations.

You need counselling for your own self to rebuild your self esteem which he has come to destroy over time. He is the root cause of all this and you are not responsible for him and his actions. He has copied doubtless what his Dad did to him Mum (I see he does not like her at all and has transferred this dislike onto you); learnt behaviour like this is very hard to unlearn. You cannot go on ignoring this. He has to want to help his own self and he has shown no signs of wanting to do so.

I would hope that your MIL is sympathetic but your own well being and happiness along with this of your children ultimately need to come first.

I would also suggest you read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft.

Hi Popcorn23

I'm sorry that you have had a wakeup call by posting on MN. But I honestly think that you cannot stay with this man. Even when you speak to him calmly he blames you and gets aggressive, ordering you around in your own home.

Belive me uprooting your kids from this less than happy family home, even if they lost all their belongings, is preferable to having them witness their bullyig father harassing and frightening you.

hi. the fact is you are being abused. because he doesnt physically strike out at you, you may not realise this, but this is abuse.

you deserve to live free from fear and anxiety.

he is jealous of his children. his own children. this is not a good sign.

how will you feel the day your son turns round to you and speaks to you in the same way as his dad?

your children don't need to grow up believing that this is the way people in a relationship interract.

you sound so beaten down by this and you deserve peace. if you can't find peace with him, find it on your own.

perhaps you could insist (have someone with you to help you) that he goes to stay somewhere else while he has therapy and that you can discuss your future when he has sorted himself out.

please please please don't just accept this as your life. you deserve so much more, and so do your children.

Popcorn, I know its easier said than done, but can't you give him some aggro for a change!
Throw a hissy fit, throw some bloody things at him and tell him to get his act together or HE is OUT !

Hey Popcorn

Reading your messages is all too spooky, there are so many similarities with my sisters marriage. She is 48 and has been married to her husband since she was 23. They have 4 kids ranging between aged 13 and 22. 3 girls and the eldest is a boy. Once they had kids, he wanted her to give up her work and stay home to look after them. So she did. When he came home, he wanted the kids in the playroom or washed and in bed and she was to spend time with him and (sometimes) resented her time spent with them. Although they have had some good years, she is now in a loveless marriage. His affection for the kids has been very limited and their son feels this the most I think. I think that he has grown up seeing how his other mates do normal son/dad stuff and he sees how much he has missed out. On occassion, his dad has taken him out fishing but it has been very sporadic and appears to be when he gets some kind of change of heart but then he quickly reverts to his old self and the bonding session appears to have been a dream.

From what I understand her husbands relationship with his father severely lacked affection. In fact, I do not think that there was any at all. He had affairs and was generally disrespectful to his wife. As someone said a few messages ago, this behaviour will most likely continue. I am sad to say that this is all too apparent in my sister's son now. His ex girlfriend became pregnant 4 years ago, he is currently unemployed and he blames his mum for his life. My sister has always been there for him, she was the one who provided the extra love that he was missing from his father (as she has done for the 3 girls aswell) and she is the one who gets lashed at when things go wrong. His disrespect is beyond belief and breaks my sisters heart over and over again. His tempers are much like his fathers - erratic, soul destroying and then after a period of silence his mood will switch. My sister has tolerated it because she feels that his unhappiness is a result of his relationship with his dad and therefore has allowed him to take it out on her, I guess she feels as if she should bear the lashings out.

There have been other heart breaking instances that I don't feel like I can talk about but suffice to say that her husband does not want to go to marriage counciling. He has awful mood swings and she, after all these years of misery still thinks that she should try and make a go of it. She lives on the otherside of the world and it is heartbreaking to hear of the latest verbal abuse and degradation she has just experienced. There is now a library of these occassions. She is worried about money and although talks about leaving, I doubt she will do anytime soon.

All I can say is think of your children and think of yourself. Whilst your DS's are still very young, you can all still have a fulfilling life. It may not be with your DH but nonetheless the alternative could not only destroy you but also your children. I hate that I have to say such negative things, I am a bit of a romanticist but my sister's marriage has majorly opened my eyes to the different relationships and families that exist.

I love my sister, she has always been a very kind hearted person and still is but over the years her DH has chipped away at her confidence, her soul and her heart and she is left lost, heartbroken and now not only receives psychological abuse from her DH but also her DS.

Popcorn, things will change when YOU want them to. But part of that is acceptance and knowing when you need to stop making excuses for him and saying that he is not like this all the time. The fact is is that ir shouldn't be happening at all. My sister does not deserve to feel as she does and neither do you. You owe it to yourself and your boys.

If you are anything like my sister, do continue talking about this on here if you feel you want to and don't have anyone else to talk about it. I haven't been on here that long but everyone seems all too willing to listen.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate hug

Hi
Have registered with relate today (waiting list 8-10 weeks!) but will try to be available during the week which might make this faster. Need to seriously think about the legal side of things. Earn a reasonble wage in my own right but savings etc all joint and my own money would get eaten up quickly if I was to set up home.
I am an optimist at heart and a believer in committment etc so the thought of my children not having a dad around doesn't feel right but seeing DS upset the way he was and thinking of the long term effects feels even worse.
Is it possible that he will change or I am being unrealistic?
Was friends with 2 girls at school who had controlling dads and thought even at the age of 14 how awful that was for them. Tey were bith bullied at school and had little self confidence and they would have. been better of wothout their dads. This all seems so unreal. I need to discuss this with my family/close friends but don't know how yet

Popcorn-my sister is exactly the same. She has a 2 year plan. She is in the middle of doing a course and she is afraid of how tough it will be to set up a new home with the two youngest girls and get through the course. She also said she needed to give her marriage one last go, but I have to say that I have heard that sentence quite a few times.

My sister is a massive believer in commitment too and also believes that children should have both parents. Her kids are older than yours and they have had their father with them as they have grown but I bring you back to where her son is right now and the way he is. He lived with both his parents for 18 years and well.....you know the rest......

I think that you are right, you need to go through counciling or at least try it and go down any other avenues you need to go down to ensure yourself that you tried everything to save your marriage and family. But, you need to stay true and honest to yourself and your sons and if a time comes when you realise that it's not working then you need to start making decisions but you do need the support of your family and friends. It's so hard to admit that this is all happening to yourself, let alone to others but start off with even just one person and it will help you to be able to have a sounding board and a shoulder to cry on if you need one. I dread to think how my sister would feel if she didn't have me, our brother and mum to chat to. I think that she has only told one of her friends.

Popcorn you are very articulate in describing your problems, which indicates your judgment and intelligence.

Yes you have intelligence and good judgment; don't underestimate yourself.
Please be strong for yourself and your little boys; you all deserve better.

Popcorn well done for raising this on here, I think it's a first step to something big for you.

Please do not ever be taken in by your dh saying you 'push buttons' to make him angry. As an adult it is his responsibility to deal with his feelings, not anyone elses.

Are you close to your parents? Could you talk to them about it - obviously don't know your family situation so sorry if this wouldn't be helpful. But you do need some people on your side, to support you.

And you are so right, children with bullying fathers have a bloody miserable time at home. If you are convinced this is what is happening with your dh then no-one, no-one will judge you badly for removing the bully from the home. Your ds' at present are 'whole' and no doubt developing to their full potential. Don't let this potential be lessened by an abusive, bullying father in their home.......it's sickening to hear that he has 'used' them to get at you, eg making comments about "mummy being bad to daddy". really awful.

I do hope you've got some help and support in rl, you certainly seem to have plenty on here! best of luck.

My friend is a bit further along from you because she has managed to escape her emotionally abusive husband but her emotional pain is still all too apparant. She thought he would change to but he did not - he just got worse. She needs time to heal and you will only start this healing process when you leave.

You need real life support to help you -family and friends. MN is fab for on line support.

I do not advocate leaving at all lightly but for the sake of yourself and your children this is something that you will need to do. You need a set plan of departure in place and you certainly need to know your legal rights.

He will kill you emotionally if you stay and your children will be further emotionally harmed. You can prevent that from happening to them. Do you want them to copy their Dad's behaviours towards their future wives and before that time yourself?. Of course not but you run the risk of this happening if you did nothing. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents.

Such men rarely if ever change; this behaviour is deeply rooted and inbuilt in their own pysches. Your H will never admit to you that he is in any way in the wrong. Your H also does not want to address the issues; that should also be telling to you.

I wish you well Popcorn; I hope you do manage to forge a new life for yourself and your children without his damaging influences in it.

his behaviour is not to do with you. it's how he was brought up and he thinks that is the way to behave. it doesn't matter what you do. a loving, supportive husband wants his dw to see family and friends and doesn't expect her to exist for him.

i think you should start setting things up so you are more independant. start moving your savings into your own account. keep passports in a private, safe place, preferably out of the house. take copies of birth certificates and anything else important.

can he change? right now he won't even acknowledge that there's a problem so i think something big has to jolt him out of his complacency. i.e. get out for a while.

as for your mil, that's a difficult one. she may well support him as she married a man like him! can you make other plans for your dc's should things go pear-shaped?

so sorry this is happening. when you're in a bad place, it seems like it's your fault, this is what you deserve and the onus is on you to change it. it is not your fault. it is his problem and you have no control over it. absolve yourself of blame because you are a saint for dealing with all this.

Popcorn - i only read a little of the htread from the start so may double up on other people.

My dh is very similar - mine shouts, and thumps thins around but no longer throws things after I told him I'd leave him if he EVER did it again. He does shout infront of ds and will cause arguments aswell.

My parents did much same - and although I remember being sad - I'm ok now!

I lay down the law with dh and make it v clear what is really not acceptable. Start with the worst things - the physical stuff words are easier to cope with. If he can stop throwing or smashing then there is hope. If he even accepts there is a problem there is hope.

I do pretty much everything too plus work 3 days a week, plus 5 months pg. When I do ask dh to bring in nappies off line, he always forgets and always says its too much to cope with.

Be smug and remind urself how amazing you are that you CAN do this coz men ARE crap and can't multitask.

Sadly - you do need to ask urself if you could earn what he does (I know I couldn't) and if your places were reversed would the children be as settled etc - whilst the situation may not be perfect he does at least interact with ds which is a good thing.

this is v long - I've looked for ages for someone in similar pos - can't give u my email for longer chat as dh will read it and that REALLY WOULDN"T HELP!!!!!!

I'll keep looking on this thread, and good luck with it all.

Have continued to have a good think about this and seeing my husband in a completely different light. Thinking back difficult behaviour started very early on (have been married 6 years) and has been the biggest cause of upset in my life. Have shed so many tears of frustration that he would not be supportive od me. Whwn we first married we stayed in a new flat and the plaster has to be repaired so many times as he punched the walls. Can't remember what he was upset about. Only very intermittantly blamed me for things in those days and overall felt loved but sad that we wouldn't involve himself in anything for wouldn't directly benefit him e.g would never give me a lift to work if I needed it due to 10 million differnt excuses. I was very low while pregnant with DS2 and was always being critised for anything that DS1 broke e.g Although I believed that toddler do these thing and I was not to blame I remember being exhausted by it all but feeling very trapped that no there was no excuse. The lowest point was after DS2 was born when I thought I was losing my mind as he had tantrum after tantrum as I tried to get him to help with DS1 so I could look after DS2. Things only improved when DS2 was about 3 months as i was getting enough sleep to do everything else that needed done. Again I felt trapped and unhappy. Things had generally been better until the last few weeks.
I was initally shocked my the suggestions to leave but if I am honest it has been on my mind for ages.

popcorn123- reading your thread is like reading about myself, sorry i cant give you any advice but your situation seems to mirror mine perfect, ive also been married 6 years and have always had doubts and felt things were not right but wondered if it was all down to me, and as for the going days on end without talking- it drives me f**king crazy!!!! i know im a great mum and my kids are my life but i feel that i am failing them in some way but staying with there arse of a dad who is great with them most of the time but also has times where is screams at them then goes in moods with them as well. well done you for starting to do something about it though, hopefully you can get something sorted!!

Popcorn....it's great nws that you have been thinking about this. If there is any way that any of us can help or support you through your decision making please ask...Have you managed to discuss this wit your family yet? That would appear to be a good first step...

it looks to me that growingbagpuss is also in an abusive relationship and hasnt realized it yet?

interacting with children is not enough when he is also scaring them!

my parents were not in love, fought a lot, and all i wanted is them to divorce which happened when i was 14, thank god. growingbagpuss also said she is 'ok', as if it validates what she went through. is that good enough for our children? i dont think so. i want them to be more than ok, so i wouldnt put them through any abusive parent relatioship.

i hope you can resolve this situation soon, and no, dont stay in this abusive relationship just for the children's sake, i bet they want more from life than this.

HI
Was also concerned when I read your post as I did not think your situation was any better than mine and I wasn't sure that you realised it. I didn't intially comment as I haven't done anything yet about my raltionship so didn't feel in a good place to give advice.
You also need to start seeing your husband for what he really is. Could you explain your sentence reagaring earing capacity as I wasn't sure what you meant. I have now realised that refusing to help me with the kids is not just laziness it is lack of respect. Most people would help a stranger if there carrying a baby, trying to keep a toddler safe and carrying bags but my H watches (or is aware of me doing this) every day but doesn't help.
My 18 year old brother is a typical teenager - prone to laziness and doesn't know how to interact with small children but he is mcuh more support than H.

Am planning to speak to my family but need time without DC to do this as I know I will get upset. This has to be after they are sleeping as H will not watch both of them. Realised how much agro I will get if I go round to parents' house for more than 30 minutes on one of his "evenings off". He will phone everal times to see when I am coming home. Have only just realised that this is not normal.

Thanks for listening to me. It has given me more courage than I can imagine and hopefully I can also be brave in RL.