He wants DS 4 nights a week?!

[StaceyAndGavin]

I have posted this on another thread but thus one seems to be more active. It's also relative.

This is so out - ing but I whatever I really need advice.

We separated a little over a month ago - his major fault but we've remained friends for DS sake. He works a very demanding job which only leaves him with 1 day off a week and 2 days off every other week. Since the separation I've allowed him to come over 5/6 nights a week after work to see DS and he has him 2 nights a week (DS goes to nursery for one of the days so it all works out fine)
Then the other day we're discussing bills and transerring things into my name and I asked about child maintenance. He said we'd have to sit down all and work out 'how much DS costs'.. I don't think he's taking into consideration that DS uses gas, electricity, water etc too. But then he said something out of the blue - that once he's moved into his new place (he's staying with his parents for the time being) that he'll be having DS 3-4 nights a week.
I told him that's impossible because of his job, and I'm a SAHM. It doesn't make sense. He said he could pick DS up after work and drop him back in the mornings (around 7.30) but I said that would be too disruptive to his life.

DS is 2 but is pretty advanced for his age so understands a lot, although we've kept him out of it. We've told him that daddy's getting a new house and that he'll be having sleepovers with daddy etc and hes excited which is great.

I asked if this was about paying child maintenance and he said absolutely not hmm

He then said if I continue to be unreasonable with him seeing DS then he'll take me to court.

This completely took me by surprise - I really really don't think I've been unreasonable at all... am I?!

We spoke about it afterwards and he apologised for threatening with court, he just wants more time with DS which I understand, but he's not willing to change jobs, which I also understand, this is his dream job.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Please help sad

The part is the pointless childcare. It isn't pointless. You can't say you are a SAHM so he can't use childcare, but then refuse to accommodate him that is obstructive and also just comes down to the working parent vs SAHM parent argument again. That DS is better with you than anyone else.
Same as if you go to work and put him in childcare, so can he. Why is it ok for DS to be in nursery when you decide it's ok but not DH?
You need to find a job yourself

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm trying to help you because simply saying he can't have his DS because he has a job is not going to go well for you

YANBU.
If he was actually spending significant time with your DS during your DS's waking hours then you would be unreasonable. But he's not. He's off at work, and will essentially only have your DS while they're both asleep. It's ridiculous and makes it seem like he's just trying to get out of paying maintenance. A two year old needs reasonable bedtimes, routine, and a stable home, not to be shuttled to sleepovers at his dad's at a late hour, just so his dad doesn't have to pay his mum maintenance.
I recommend getting legal advice, OP - mediation seems the best way to go. Good luck!

No I totally get your point, I do.
But we have already agreed on a schedule. He wouldn't ever go more that 2 days without seeing DS.

We've been using this schedule for a couple of weeks and it's working well.

Then out of the blue he says he wants more time with him - but putting him in childcare for the day just so he can say it's 'his day' doesn't make sense to me. He won't be spending time with him. He'll be in work. And I'll get less time with him. So everyone loses?

That would infuriate me OP. Taking a child away from the parent who is willing and wanting to care for them, only to put them in childcare all day, is a controlling, abusive move imo.

I know you said you will get a part time job at some point but it is important this is sooner rather than later.
At that point both of you will he using childcare and not seeing your child but ultimately being responsible for them on that particular day in question with drop off and pick ups

say you have agreed to a schedule and leave it at that. He does not have more power or control in this situation you do so dont let him.

Can i ask how long you go without seeing DS when he is at his dads 3 nights?

All of a sudden because he's had advice that if it's 50/50 he doesn't have to pay you maintenance and of course he's not going to pay you in the day for looking after your own child! Get legal advice yourself and don't agree to anything from him.

I think when faced with the reality of the childcare bills he would not push you for this in all honesty. But this is why you need to stop being a SAHM! And not having him coming round your house! Facilitating this is going to lead to him expecting you to facilitate more than you should.

Which is why you need to just say it's all working fine for now, but get legal advice.

He takes DS out on set days/nights and you have to let this happen for those 2/3 nights and stop this bedtime thing in your house

OP, this is no longer about you and your H, it's about your DS. The reality is that if your H goes to court then he will be awarded a certain amount of contact, and if that contact is say, a day or two a week (not saying that it will be but for the sake of argument,) then those days will mean that it is no longer your responsibility what happens on those days. It of course may happen that you come to an arrangement where you do the childcare, but that won't be your choice to make, they will be his days and if he chooses to put him in childcare on those days then that is his prerogative.

FWIW when me and my eXH split dS was ten, and the arrangement was for 50/50 at the time. I was a sahm then due to the fact I had been when DS was younger and was then in the process of looking for work, and as such I agreed to do the school runs as it seemed pointless to put DS in childcare just because it was eXH's day iyswim. But the difference is that I picked DS up from school and he stayed with me until eXH came to pick him up after work. EXH would have paid for the after school club to be fair but it made more sense for me to fetch him while I was still at home, with the understanding being that if I found work that arrangement would need to change. But it would never have occurred to me to suggest that because I was at home eXH shouldn't be granted mid week contact.

The reason you have been able to be a sahm is because your H has been working and earning the kind of money which affords you the ability to be a sahm. This is no longer the case, and if you have reached a point where you need to find work thus meaning that your DS will need to be in childcare on the days you would ordinarily have had him then this is no different for your eXH.

But you need to seek legal advice on this. What is most important here is what's in the best interests of the child, but the reality is that as much as we try, most parents do throw a bit of what is in our best interests in there because no parent is going to be choosing to be separated from their child for any time if they don't have to.

You presumably never argued that the time your H spent with your DS of an evening was a waste when you were together, this hasn't changed just because you no longer are.

You put it better than me. So if he takes you to court and gets wed/thurs/Friday then it will be irrelevant what you are doing on wed/thur/fri and up to him to make the childcare arrangements
That is just how it works

I'll be on a massive job hunt from today.

But how do I stop him from coming over to put DS to bed? That would break my heart if things were the other way round.

And should I go to family mediation or see a solicitor?

Wouldn't it be better for DS to spend time with his father on his days off rather than just go there to be put to bed and brought back in the mornings?

I can't believe it's all come to this :(

You need family mediation you need a set schedule where DS has clearly defined time with both of you

If he wants to be a dad then he needs to do the daytime stuff with him not just fit him in as and when it suits him

It's very early days so when is he moving to his own place? I would perhaps speak to him that it is not a long term arrangement and prepare him for that. Perhaps he could take DS out by himself more as well

Unfortunately it does sound like he may well get angry or upset at you making changes to this routine, whether that is out of entitlement or true heartbreak is unknown

Now he mentioned court already I think you can open up a discussion about boundaries and routines and that you don't think the bedtime routine is working and after your recent discussion perhaps you can come to some new arrangements. I think it must be confusing for DS to have dad there every night this is not something I would want to continue for very long because the split has happened now and DH has to recognise that. Being at your house every night might be wonderful for him but it will confuse DS and is not really appropriate when he no longer lives at home,

He's messing you around massively, and ds will be disturbed if the arrangements aren't clear. You don't have to believe all he says or accept what he offers. Get some advice, legal, financial.

Say you give him the 4 nights you then lose tax credits and income support. You will have to find a job then your son will need childcare and your ex will state it is your responsibility but you won't get help, on top of that he can claim maintenance from you. Get good legal advice.

Is he a controlling man?
He is possibly banking on you being full of goodwill and good intentions to facilitate his demands. You really don't have to do any of what he asks. I gather you didn't choose to break up your family so you can't exactly put yourself in his shoes - whatever he did, he did himself and this is the consequence. You can't feel guilty about that. DS is only 2 and will not understand a lot of this stuff at all.

"Then the other day we're discussing bills and transerring things into my name and I asked about child maintenance"
"Then out of the blue he says he wants more time with him"

Its not out of the blue though, is it? You asked about maintenance and hes suddenly asking for time he cant really do but that would mean he coincidentally doesnt pay any maintenance. Of course he said it wasnt just about the money, hes not exactly going to admit it!

What hes asking for isnt bonding parent time, its what you would get from a childminder if you worked a nightshift job - hes willing to provide a literal bed and nothing else, hes not even doing the morning routine to get him to nursery!

OP - the first thing you need to do is get some legal advice. If you can't afford it, at least see the CAB.

Be very careful about rushing into work, that could potentially backfire. If anything look at brushing up your skills with online courses, and if your DS goes to nursery, maybe a few hours of voluntary work during that time. Get prepared, but don't commit to work now. If both parents are working, 50/50 shared care is far more likely.

Family courts care about what is best for the child. Unless you get a very poor one, they won't be focused on ensuring the father gets "his" time and rights as if the child is nothing more than a shared toy. Your child has had a SAHM and for that to continue would be the best thing for him. If you gave up work to take care of your child, and you both agreed to it, don't let yourself be penalized for it now.

Be careful about over-empathizing with your ex. Do you think he's upset at the thought of you getting less contact with your child? Because it looks like he's prioritizing his money over his child's welfare. A reasonable person would at least want to ease into a massive change in their child's life, not insist on four nights right off the bat.

Wouldn't it be better for DS to spend time with his father on his days off rather than just go there to be put to bed and brought back in the mornings?

Of course it would, at least initially. But that would mean your ex has a responsibility to help support his child when he's at his other home, and it sounds like he doesn't want to do that..

*And don't listen to anyone querying why your child would go to nursery. Being a SAHP doesn't mean you don't let them out of your sight for a minute, plenty of kids with SAHPs go to nursery for socialization and early education.

No no no who gives a woman advice NOT to work?!
How will you reasonably survive on benefits?
That is awful advice. And it's manipulative and could backfire - the court may seriously frown upon a woman who refuses to get a job and relies on benefits for no other reason than to prevent ex getting access

I think you and him need to work out a long term plan as your son is so young. Yes for the next year, maybe your partner has him on his day off and puts him to bed at yours one night (if you can cope with this), and pays you more maintenance. As your boy gets older it can change. He can have him for more time, less maintenance, you start work.

He is definitley trying to avoid maintenance, but like I said the money can decrease as he gets older and goes to school etc

You need to get a job.In the long term, as a divorced parent you need to be paying into a pension, and thinking about your own career goals and aspirations. Do NOT rely on your ex husband to look after you. You need to make/plan for your own independent future so that you can give your son a solid, secure home in your own right.

I actually think this is soooooo about maintenance. So many times I have seen this where they have been told if you have him half the time you won't have to pay maintenance!

I would let him take you to court and explain that his work lifestyle is such that he will have no meaningful time with the child and therefore it is a ridiculous suggestion merely to avoid maintenance.

I think his suggestion is a fair starting point, for negotiation.

This is why I said you should work on his days. He can't try and use you as unpaid childcare then.