He wants DS 4 nights a week?!

[StaceyAndGavin]

I have posted this on another thread but thus one seems to be more active. It's also relative.

This is so out - ing but I whatever I really need advice.

We separated a little over a month ago - his major fault but we've remained friends for DS sake. He works a very demanding job which only leaves him with 1 day off a week and 2 days off every other week. Since the separation I've allowed him to come over 5/6 nights a week after work to see DS and he has him 2 nights a week (DS goes to nursery for one of the days so it all works out fine)
Then the other day we're discussing bills and transerring things into my name and I asked about child maintenance. He said we'd have to sit down all and work out 'how much DS costs'.. I don't think he's taking into consideration that DS uses gas, electricity, water etc too. But then he said something out of the blue - that once he's moved into his new place (he's staying with his parents for the time being) that he'll be having DS 3-4 nights a week.
I told him that's impossible because of his job, and I'm a SAHM. It doesn't make sense. He said he could pick DS up after work and drop him back in the mornings (around 7.30) but I said that would be too disruptive to his life.

DS is 2 but is pretty advanced for his age so understands a lot, although we've kept him out of it. We've told him that daddy's getting a new house and that he'll be having sleepovers with daddy etc and hes excited which is great.

I asked if this was about paying child maintenance and he said absolutely not hmm

He then said if I continue to be unreasonable with him seeing DS then he'll take me to court.

This completely took me by surprise - I really really don't think I've been unreasonable at all... am I?!

We spoke about it afterwards and he apologised for threatening with court, he just wants more time with DS which I understand, but he's not willing to change jobs, which I also understand, this is his dream job.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Please help sad

Firstly, whether it's about maintenance or not, I do admire that he works such long hours and wants to commit to 4 days a week, however it also seems a bit ridiculous to collect him to just to go to bed to drop him straight off again the morning whilst he's so young. When he's older it could definitley work though.

Could you compromise with 2 nights a week but he pays for childcare and you work those 2 days? And then he sees him also on his full days off. Is there no way his work would let him finish earlier 1-2 days a week?!

Definitley need to start setting boundaries in place, need to stop him just waltzing in every night!

Let him have his 50/50 to get out of paying maintence - it will soon stop when he works out that childcare is more expensive that whatever he would be paying you... Call his bluff!

Another voice adding to the "this is just about maintenance" chorus.
If you agreed to his plan, you would be doing all the practical childcare and he would be having a sleeping child whilst paying you no maintenance.

If I were you I would stop the evening visits immediately, and agree to just the nights he actually has your son himself, apart from anything else it will help you to clear your mind, and start drawing boundaries both physical and mental.

Forget about him being your friend, he isn't. In fact he is planning to shaft you financially, and he is already emotionally threatening you with talk of court. There are standard percentages for how much of his income he would have to pay as child maintenance, look them up and see what he actually offers. That will tell you a lot about how devoted a father he is.

Remember that he has had time, maybe months, to plan and prepare his arguments, so he is much more mentally ready than you in these very early days.

Of course he's trying to swerve paying his son's maintenance, and it's revolting. Let him take you to court. A family court should be experienced enough to see it for what it is.

I do admire that he works such long hours and wants to commit to 4 days a week

But you acknowledge straight after that he wouldn't be. The OP keeps him up after his bedtime now so that he can see his DF, so in reality he'd be committing to four bedtimes a week. Not exactly quality time.

wow nice to see in these enlighten times of equality the farther is entitled to what access the mother decides to give him

These times are more enlightened because family courts focus on the needs and welfare of the child, not the rights of either adult.

This little boy has always had a SAHP, and the usual view of the family courts would be that he is entitled to continuity of that - not to be shuttled off four nights a week to sleep at his DFs just so that his DF can avoid paying maintenance. If his priority was spending time with his child, he'd want to see him on his days off.

Get proper legal advice, tell him you've done it before him. These fuckers who use these ploys to scare mothers don't like that. I bet this bloke has never looked after his son on his own, least through the night. They don't give a shit about their kids, just about £ they don't have to pay.

wow nice to see in these enlighten times of equality the farther is entitled to what access the mother decides to give him

Custody has sod all to do with equality - it is (or should be if the parents actually care) solely about what's best for the child and what the father is proposing isn't best for the child (staying up late just to be put to bed somewhere else and then dropped back at mum's first thing in the morning isn't ideal visitation) and is most likely being done so he can fuck with mum's finances as he'd be then the legal resident parent and would get tax credits etc. and technically mum would be liable to pay maintenance to him. She's been the stay at home parent so their son is used to being in her care primarily and the aim of custody, especially in these early ages, is to keep things as similar as possible for the child while still ensuring they get to spend enough time with the other parent.

I think if he proposing 50:50 then you need to be clear he responsible for those days, so drop offs/pick up and also caring for your ds if he is ill on those days. Otherwise you are unpaid childcare, it would be worth bringing up this point with him if when this gets discussed again. Will he really be happy with this? Whatever you feelings are about going back to work - it is also worth stressing that you will planning to work those days that he is not with you.

As soon as I read your OP, I knew it was about avoiding maintenance.

His plan for 3-4 overnights a week, with you being his free nanny (well, paid for by the state), shouldering ALL of the mental load and the hard work, meaning he avoids paying maintenance, is outrageously entitled of him.

How involved was he with your DS before you split? I mean with the hard work (nappies, night waking, tantrums, meals, etc), not just the fun "let's go to the park" stuff.

YANBU to refuse to be your ex's unpaid childcare. However, you also state that you don't want your child being in childcare when you can look after him. You need to make up your mind on that one.

YABU if I think that you can continue being a SAHM after a split and rely on child maintenance to support this lifestyle choice. Therefore, when you return to work, your child will need childcare at some times. Surely, it doesn't matter if this is during the father's contact time or yours.

50/50 contact is a reasonable starting point for discussions but think it fairer if you got 4 nights one week and his 4 nights were the next. That's truly equal. Many Dads are only around for bedtime and breakfast and these moments are important for building a relationship.

Definitely start mediation and lawyer up if needed. Good luck.

No wonder he's an ex. I'm speechless at his entitled demands.

Fuck letting him come over to the house anymore, OP. Let your DS get that sleep he has been missing out on for this twat.

Just say "great. If you're doing 3.5 days a week, those can be the days I work." His days are your free days.

Or he can pay you for childcare on those days and you might not need another job.

YABU

I think most parents want to spend as much time with their DC as possible. If he is working in the daytime then I'm sure the hours in the evening are extremely important to him and your son.

It's irrelevant if it's his dream job or a crap job it wouldn't alter the fact that most parents want to see their DC as much as they can even if it's just 'quality time' at night. ( I hate that phrase but you know what I mean...)

If you are SAHM then why is DS in nursery? Completely misses point of thread!

You need to start from the point of view of 50:50 childcare, and neither parent getting all the crap bits or all the fun bits.

Start by him seeing his son outside the home. He collects him and takes him somewhere, then returns him.
If he wants overnights then he has roughly 24 hours, childcare while he works is your exs problem not yours.

A quite normal pattern is every other weekend and a mid week night. You need to remember that contact is for the good of the child - not the parents. So excessively late nights etc. Don't really work.

So he's moved out but not paying any maintenance yet? Is he still paying the bills and stuff?

My initial thought was if he does 4 nights would that not mean he officially had him the most? As for benefits and maintenance they usually go on nights at each parents house. I'd be very careful Op and I'd be getting legal advice promptly.
I also think it's time he started taking your son out for contact and not just visiting at your house.

50/50 is great! If it's best for the child and each parent is actually doing their share of the care as well as splitting cost of clothes, after school activities, school lunches/trips etc! If you go down that route make sure all those things have been agreed on in advance.

Starting point is what's best for the child.

It will be rare that it's in the best interests of a 2 year old, where the Mum is a sahm, tto have 50/50.

MN is very keen on 50/50 but having spoken to solicitors it's by no means a starting point.

Also it's really important that he knows he can't just do the nights, then claim he has to pay no maintenance, while you are still tied to staying at home that day.

His nights are also his days if you go down that route.

PPS I love that the f4j guy who has wandered in her to justify the unjustifiable can't even spell father.

I love how you saying he is being selfish, he want to be part of the kids life.

so lets just say this.
if he was the main mainecare and making some nice ££.
he can work and pay childcare wile he is at work. the child would have the same reteen (could even be in full time nursery this would also help develop the kid).
This would leave you to be able to find a full time job rather then being on benefits or have a part time job and able to support the kid.
yes access would be given when you have time off.

Some great advice thanks. I will call a solicitor today and see where I stand legally.
Some of you obviously didn't read my posts properly because I'm getting a lot of 'Of course he should see his father' etc.

That is not what I'm saying!

It's just not going to be beneficial to DS if he's being picked up later in the evening just so his dad can put him to bed, then he'll have to wake him in the morning and bring him straight back.

It's for his benefit, not for DS benefit. Which is what I'm finding so unreasonable.

Also I agree with 50/50 custody. When it suits the children and the parents can work with 50/50.
For the foreseeable future, I don't work and he works a lot.
He keeps saying he shouldnt be penalised for working but that's not it - he doesn't have to work all these hours but he chooses to so it gives him a head start in a promotion etc.
But he won't give that up,and DS shouldn't suffer just so he feels like he gets more time with his son. That is what I'm finding selfish. Not that fact that he wants to see his kids, fucking obviously.

But firstly, you should be working. IMO.
Secondly he shouldn't be penalised for being the only working parent. That is in fact correct. DS will also suffer through financial issues if his parents cannot provide for him. DH having aspirations for promotion, which will benefit DS as much as exDH isn't something to penalise - we have all said that he just needs to pay for childcare not use you as childcare.

This is a fundamental difference of opinion vs working parents and SAH parents - clearly you have very different ideas. Working parents aren't any less of a parent because they choose to have a career. You should not use this against him in this argument that him working is preventing him having a relationship with DS, because it is also seen as important to provide for that child financially as well as emotionally.

So you need to just stop trying to press that point home.
All you need to focus on is:
You will not be childcare for him on his days
You will be going back to work (whatever suits you, in your opinion on working parents) and not working around him
Who is primary carer, re the tax credits and child benefit
What is a practical solution for DS, what times are going to work for him
Him paying maintence now during the current arrangement
Getting legal advice

I'm sorry if I was hard on you about this
Many parents don't have the luxury of being a SAHP and they have to work. You feel that DH is 'choosing' to work more than see his child but this opinion is kind of irrelevant - it's up to him what he does, you can't tell him how to be a father and be the moral police. If it's a bad decision on his part then that is his price to pay. You had a child with a man who likes to work and clearly has high goals for promotion - this was ok when you were a couple but not now? See how that doesn't make good sense. Just as he can't make you get a job you can't force him to give up his job. If he wants DS for a couple of hours per evening and the rest is childcare then that is what many parents have to do with their kids and it is his parenting to choose to do so. The morals of it don't apply.

But I'm not saying it isn't a good thing he's working so much I've never said that, I've actually always admired that about him.

But at the end of the day, because he does work so much, it's not going to be possible for him to have DS 4 nights a week without putting him in childcare which is pointless, he could be at home with me, and see his dad when he's actually got time off work.

I'm trying to do the right thing but first and foremost put my son's needs first.

We already agreed to a schedule that works around his job and would mean he gets DS 2 nights a week and 3 nights every other week but now all of a sudden he's demanding more contact that he can't commit to.