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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

To abide by my mother's wishes and not let my sister know when she has died?

294 replies

Bonjelica · 23/06/2017 18:24

Half-sister has been estranged for nearly 10 years. She has MH issues, had a breakdown and started accusing my parents of doing awful things to her when she was a child. She insinuated my father (her stepfather) sexually abused her. This was a lie and is unforgivable. My mother took the painful decision to have no further contact with her and therefore her children because of this and has suffered greatly for not knowing how her grandchildren are.
Since then she has posted occasional nasty messages on Facebook but we have not heard anything else from her.

Mum is now 75 and has been in ill health for the last year. She has stated clearly that she does not want my sister to know when she dies, to be invited to the funeral, or to know where she is buried.

This doesn't sit right with me but I have to honour her wishes don't I? Despite being extremely angry with my sister (still), I think she at least deserves to be told when she passes.

Any advice on how to handle this would be appreciated.

OP posts:
QuiteLikely5 · 24/06/2017 09:27

What a lovely bunch of people you are!!!

Deserting her because she made an allegation? Would it not have been kinder to speak to her yourself and hear what she had to say?

I think your mother is being very spiteful by not wanting her daughter to find out she has passed.

Who cares? Whatever we say here - there is still a woman out there estranged from her family because she made an allegation - it is wrong to say she has got MH issues too!

Alisvolatpropiis · 24/06/2017 09:27

I don't really buy into "last wishes" like you mothers,I'd tell her I'd honour them but ultimately do what I felt was right after she passed.

OptimisticOllie · 24/06/2017 09:33

Why are you so sure your sister lied?

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/06/2017 09:40

Having thought some more about this.

Whatever you tell your sister (if you tell your sister) what good will it do her?

As far as I can tell the message is

'Hi sis, mum has died, the family says fuck off.'

You are not opening doors to reconciliation you are shouting abuse through the letterbox.

mrsclaus100 · 24/06/2017 09:47

We have absolutely no idea what any of this family have been through over the last 10 years and jumping to conclusions about abuse allegations being true/untrue and assuming that the OP has never explored this is ridiculous and not for us to pass comment on. So the original question IS entirely relevant and the only question we should be answering here.

HmmOkay · 24/06/2017 09:58

Your mum can't decide this for you. Of course you can reassure your mum in the time she has left, but she can't decide what happens after she's gone. That is for you to decide.

For what it is worth, my feeling is that someone in the family or circle of friends will find your sister and let her know, maybe a cousin or aunt or uncle or family friend. Someone will feel that her daughter should know. She's on Facebook so it would be very easy.

That then brings the problem of your sister finding out that her immediate family tried to keep it from her. Plus there are her children to consider - don't they deserve to know that a grandparent has died?

So I'd tell her myself and that way you get to take control a little bit.

gamerchick · 24/06/2017 09:58

Your mother sounds like a pretty awful person OP. I wouldn't agree to shit tbh. final twist of the knife indeed.

DoIDontIhavethetalk · 24/06/2017 10:02

I'd be inclined to abide by your mother's wishes but more for your half sister than her.

The fact that she has MH issues and you use that to brush off her side of the story does not sit well with me at all.

I have MH issues as a direct result of long term abuse and I am the black sheep of the family for not being believed. Knowing when my parents dies will do me no good at all - I'll mourn even harder than I already do.

0nline · 24/06/2017 10:08

Having had the experience of belatedly discovering an estranged parent's death thanks to third party googling finding some random people on the internet talking about it... her plan means there is a good chance of post-death, unpleasant fall out for the people she loves.

Because one way or another your sister will find out, sooner or later. Not risking raising the current tensions to new heights when she finds out secondhand is in the interests of all those left behind.

I do not have mental health challenges on a level with your sister's to navigate, but still coped badly with both the complicated grief and the punch to the guts mode in which I discovered dad's death. More than a year later I still have extended periods when it becomes abundantly clear that an extended denial stage can only take you so far, and wound on wound makes it less easy to stick to the high road and not lash out with similar disinterest in other people's feelings.

Your sister sounds considerably less well placed to manage a context where a death notice can be perceived as the deliberate hurling of a barrel of salt on a badly healed wound. Personally for your own sake and that of the rest of the family I would accept that your mother will not have to live with the consequences of her choice, whereas the rest of you might well have to.

I have had to reconsider my own stance in terms of what I want in the case of my death. Prior to being on the wrong end of "don't tell" I might have been inclined to take a position like your mum's.

But not now.

I don't want my death turned into a bullet to fire at the other estranged family members, no matter the extent to which they have badly let me down. My mother invented accusations of paternal perversion with me as the object of his sexual interest. She has maintained that lie, despite the very evident cost to me, for three decades. I am 50 years old but part of me remains trapped as a terrified, horrified 16 year old being instrumentalised in a fleshcrawling act of pay back. My struggle with self-loathing and a rather flimsy attachment to the status of being alive can be traced back to the moment of her act of impulsive revenge. Which was then doubled down on for decades.

If I die before my mother, I would much prefer her not to be at my funeral and that can be organised with some planning in terms of non-announcements and less obvious choices for the disposal of my body.

But I will not let my final act in the face of what our relationship could have been, should have been, be one of vengeance, punishment, or "here's your quid pro quo" in terms of rampant dismissal of another human's needs and feelings. At the very least my final wishes involve letting her know the how, when and why of my demise before it becomes common knowledge to complete strangers on the net.

I don't want her unsuccessfully resisted temptation to take revenge, with me used as the weapon of choice, to be what ultimately defines me. But it will, if my final wishes strongly suggest that at the end of my life what she did dictated my last choices. And I don't want the family I created to have to carry my bucket of pain for me when I am gone. I want my personal bucket buried/burnt with me. As far as I am able to control the way things pan out, I don't want it to feature in any way, shape or form in the lives of the people that I love, and leave behind.

My mother's legacy is a child damaged at her own hand, for lack of impulse control. I don't want that to be my legacy too by choosing my mother's "just desserts" as the priority when I die, leaving DH and DS with both the logistics and fall out from that.

Also with my last breath I don't want to make identical choices to my father, in terms of not making room for the feelings of those left behind for the sake of making a point.

From 1984 onwards it has all been about avoiding my parents' mistakes. Will have been utterly pointless if I just go and copy their respective playbooks right at the end.

I don't think your mother's path is one that will lead to least pain for anybody. Despite the attractive qualities it promises. And grief with extra added complications can be a right bastard to manage.

In your shoes, because of my background and experiences, I would let her go on believing her wishes would be respected so she doesn't become distressed, but give myself permission to manage her passing in a way that prioritised "least harm" for everybody left behind.

And

Cos this kind of "godawful from every perspective" stuff is far from easy to have heaped on your plate.

HmmOkay · 24/06/2017 10:17

0nline, that is a very powerful post. I'm sorry that happened to you.

windypolar · 24/06/2017 11:31

Good luck and ignore the hideous accusations on here x

Don't be so crass, mrsclaus. I think your post is insensitive under the circumstances. And 'x' kisses? I think you're on the wrong forum

NotMyPenguin · 24/06/2017 11:42

I feel so sorry for your sister. Hard as it may be for you and your mother to hear, false accusations of sexual abuse are very rare, and sadly sexual abuse by family members is a huge risk in childhood.

I would strongly suggest that you at least remain open to the (uncomfortable) possibility that she has been telling the truth and has suffered the terrible loss of her relationship with her mother and you as a consequence.

Is there any way that you can try to arrange for some counselling for your mother to try to work through her feelings about all of this? It just seems so sad to contemplate her dying without reconciling on any level with your sister. You might really regret it later.

FastAbsorbingCake · 24/06/2017 11:43

The need to deny CSA is disgustingly strong in some people, please note I am not calling them disgusting, the idea that your world is built on a lie is shattering.

But…

I have experience of a once aquaintance not only admitting to the rape of a minor female relation. (For context she was 11, he was 32, not a childish experiment or any of the other shit) he was convicted and served time.

2 of his children have gone no contact, and from some unguarded comments I suspect they may have been abused too.

The others would swear blind that their father would never done that and the only reason he plead guilty was to not have them go through a trial.......... And oh yes did you know their siblings are mad…

False accusations of sexual abuse, particularly CSA are very very rare.

Your mothers efforts to control what happens after her death ring warning bells.

As does your description of your sister.

At the end of it all it's up to you, but there must be something niggling at you to question your mothers decision.

honeyroar · 24/06/2017 11:58

OP your mother ought to read Online's poignant post - it might make her think.

I find it impossible to understand how a mother can get to the point that she wants to hurt her child from beyond the grave. My own mother and brother haven't really spoken for 10 years, I think my mum just gave up trying to cope with him and the stress he brought, but I know she's sad about it deep down, and I know he's still in her will. I don't see him much either, but I'd still tell him if she or my dad were ill/died.

Lelloteddy · 24/06/2017 12:03

I would tell your sister NOW that your mother is ill.

Then SHE has the choice about what she wants to do.

NoSquirrels · 24/06/2017 12:14

Everyone else has commented on the mentally unwell/not being believed aspect, so I won't.

But I do want to comment on the "respect their final wishes" thing. No. You don't have to. That person will be dead. They will not know. Other people are living, and their feelings and relationships should be the priority. Do least harm, as Online wrote.

If someone's "final wishes" were illegal, you wouldn't feel obliged to carry them out, I hope. It's the old example we give to our children of "if someone told you to jump off a cliff, would you?" Your DMs final wishes are in my opinion immoral, and the least your sister deserves (the very least!) is to be notified personally that her mother has died.

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/06/2017 12:42

mrsclaus100

1/ the OP's sister has been abused and her family has disowned her
2/ she has MH issues and the family has disowned
or
3/ she has MH issues and has been sexually abused so the family has disowned her.

None of which paints the OP or her family in a great light

mrsclaus100 · 24/06/2017 12:54

Boney I'm not denying that any of these couldn't be possible but again, we aren't here to pass comment on whether the family are painted in the best light. The OP asked for advice on what to do with regards to telling her sister about her mothers illness/death. Notice, the OP has also now backed away and not responded so I can only imagine these comments have caused some distress.

AndBandPlayedScotlandTheBrave · 24/06/2017 13:12

Make superficial promises for an act of kindness (whether deserved or not) for your mum. Keep the promise for five minutes then discard and and decide for yourself what you should do without the thinking filter of what your mum would do. You are not obligated to preserve or perpetuate her, imho, distorted way of thinking.

Abitcomplex · 24/06/2017 13:18

Op, are you the family scapegoat by any chance? We are the ones who get the shit/ responsibility 'dumped' on us, messengers for other people to shoot etc.

I was the family scapegoat before I went NC with narc mother and enabler father, and the last daughter to go NC after my other 2 sisters, so many years apart from each other.

Before I went NC, I was taken to one side by my parents and asked if I'd be the executor to their will. I was told that as I was their only daughter that was still in the family fold, I was to be given my siblings share of the money from the will as well as my share. But........if my siblings came to claim their share, I had to give it to them. So basically it was like this as an example;

Congratulations! You have won £10,000 on the lottery! But if any of the other people who bought a ticket without the winning numbers approach you, you will have to give them a share. So don't 'enjoy' your prize, just in case.....as it isn't really 'yours'.

So if I hadn't gone NC, I would have been left with the dirt to sweep up, and I think this is what your Mum is doing to you. You have my utmost sympathy. I also think your DSIS is telling the truth, and you know deep down it's true Flowers.
Sorry for derailing xxx

NotYoda · 24/06/2017 13:29

mrsclaus

I think you are being really patronising here. The OP has lived with this, and she chose to post about it. Don't you think she's considered the possibility that her father was an abuser?
She has chosen to deny it outright (but FWIW no-one can know whether it's a lie or not including her). No one has set out to hurt her, but if she's hurt maybe it's because she's now facing it.

There is no such thing as a question that can be answered on here without context. The context is everything, unless you follow some kind of dogmatic approach

windypolar · 24/06/2017 13:29

'm not denying that any of these couldn't be possible but again, we aren't here to pass comment on whether the family are painted in the best light.

We can comment on whatever part of the OP we see fit, you can't control the direction the discussion takes.
I should imagine the sister not being believed that she was sexually abused is suffering from far more distress than the OP.

windypolar · 24/06/2017 13:32

Do you know what scapegoat means, abit? Definition fits the sister of the OP more.

Abitcomplex · 24/06/2017 13:41

Hi Windy, I see what your saying, but also the OP is too, as her Mum is putting the her in an intolerable position.

The parent dumps the crap on the scapegoat then runs away leaving the scapegoat to deal with the fallout, e.g. Her mum won't be around to see what damage it might cause to op's sister.xx
Also the sister who has been estranged because she knows a truth that is 'uncomfortable' (for want of a better word) for the family x

Gaggleofgirls · 24/06/2017 13:46

I think you should tell you're mum you'll have no part in such a callous act.

Either way from the situation your mum is in the wrong. As her child she she should have supported your sister first and foremost. Whether that be following up all aspects of an investigation or to help to tackle mental health issues that would lead to that sort of accusation.

We have a very similar situation within my own family. I have maintained a good relationship with both parts, despite obviously having my own views I refuse to discuss them with each party. They are entitled to their opinions but as nothing will ever be proven/unproven I prefer to sit firmly on the fence.

As her sister maybe you should have been more supportive, she will have needed help either way. To twist the knife in from the grave is another heartless act from your mother, and to be part of this you are equally as guilty.