Struggling with DC and feel hurt that DPs don't help

[FurryGiraffe]

I'm finding myself increasingly hurt and resentful of my DM and it's affecting our previously close relationship. I really don't want to fall out with her, but I'm not sure how to proceed.

DH and I have two DC: 4 and 1. DC2 is a delight, but an appalling sleeper. This is mainly due to illness and food intolerance issues, which cause him discomfort and wake him up. We're working with the GP to fix things, and it is very very slowly getting better, but at this point we've had 7 months of very disrupted and fragmented sleep and we are both exhausted. DC2 wakes evening and night so evenings are often absorbed by dealing with him, with the result that DH and I often don't eat together and it's fairly rare that we even get to watch an hour of tv together without having to pause it for one of us to sort DS2 out, which all adds to that sense of never being off duty IYSWIM. It was just about manageable when I was on maternity leave, but add in full time work (even in a very flexible job) and commuting and I feel at breaking point: tired, constantly tearful, stressed, very very down.

My DPs live 15 miles away. DF still works full time but DM is retired. She is in her early 60s with no significant health issues. I visit regularly with the boys and they are wonderful grandparents, but they very rarely have either or both of them alone. They used to babysit DC1 in the evening fairly regularly, but haven't since DC2 was born. DM did look after them both for a couple of hours so we could visit schools for DC1 and they have had DC1 once overnight since DC2 was born.

Now, I know that they are my children, not my DPs' and that my DPs no doubt feel (quite rightly!) that their child-rearing days are over and they are under no obligation to look after them. That's fine. I get that- I agree with that, completely. But I am really really struggling and my DM knows that. Moreover, I know how much help both sets of DGPs gave my DPs when I was a child (childcare, financial, DIY, gardening- you name it). DM also regularly visits her sister and helps her out with cleaning/household stuff. I can't help but feel that if in 30 years time one of my DC and their partner were in a similar situation, I would want to help, because they're my children and I love them and I would want to make things easier for them. Even if it were sodding hard work and even if it knackered me, I would want to help. I feel hurt that my DM doesn't seem to want to help. And the longer it goes on the more hurt I feel.

Rationally, I know my DM hasn't done anything wrong, but emotionally, I'm really struggling with it. Being chronically sleep deprived probably isn't helping at all- I'm very emotional/quick to anger etc at the moment. But I need to work out a way of getting past this because it's affecting my relationship with DM- I really don't want to see or speak to her at the moment and I feel horrible about it.

Help!

I'm really sorry your mum is so useless. I can't imagine being like that for any member of my family. We help one another out - even when it's boring and hard work - because we love one another.

As for the age thing - pah! I'm a few years' younger than your mum, a single parent and run my own business. Donald Trump is president of the USA and is 70. 60 is not that old.

I think I'd have a frank conversation with her and see how it goes - if you have a big row so be it. At least you won't feel the simmering resentment any more

Really sad to read this turned instantly into a generation bashing opportunity. Im sure your DPs thoroughly enjoyed their 6 weeks maternity leave, total lack of pre-school, zero top up benefits for low earners, a social care programme focussed around what are now recognised childhood ailments/difficulties (ADHD was only properly acknowledged/identified in the late 1980s for example.) Oh and yes, 2 incomes were always required to buy a home. Always.

Sorry to burst the generation bashing bubble, but regards state and social support, todays generation have never had it so good.

its not hard to help out, its the thought that counts

when mine were small and never ever slept, I was on my knees like the op

my mum was almost 80 and I had no other relatives at all

I knew my mum couldn't babysit my 2 boisterous kids, but what i used to do, regularly, was strap them into their car seats, drive the 30 minutes to her house, she'd look out the window expecting me, she'd come out and sit in the car with the kids in the back seat asleep, I'd go into her house, straight upstairs to bed, set my alarm for 40 minutes, crash out to sleep, get up when the alarm went off, go back to the car, she'd go back into the house, I'd drive home and the kids slept throughout this, on the way home I'd drive through McDonalds and get a strong coffee with plenty sugar to keep me awake.

My poor old mum, sitting in the cold car for that time I was asleep....but my god those wee naps kept me going. It was the most she could do for me and she did it. Thats all the op wants.

If the issue is, if you didnt realise just how demanding and hard it would be....you should have asked your mothers.

you are completely missing the point caroline

the baby boomers often had a lot of help from their parents and now they have retired with time on their hands and good pensions they are unwilling to offer their kids the help they got so readily

my sister is like this, but the other way round, when her kids were born mum and dad were fit and healthy and babysat whenever she needed them, then when dad was gone and mum was elderly and frail, her kids had grown up and my sister never went near mum, never thought of her and visited twice a year.

some people are just me me me, but its hard taking it when you didnt see it coming.

I feel for you op yes it's not a right for them to help but it would be nice if they could and healthily and available to do so. Sadly my own dp aren't really able to help too much due to ill health but do a hell of a lot more than my inlaws do. What's worse is mil had loads of help and would leave the kids to go away for a week on holiday. We can't even get appointments or night out. She will happily babysit sils baby constantly. I've learnt now that it's totally her loss and she's missing out on building a relationship with my dcs as she rarely makes the effort to see them. I know when my dcs are older male or female I would always be they to help out and support them as best as I could.

There are multiple things here:

My mother for instance took care of her parents when they were elderly, in return for their support when she needed them.

I probably will not take care of my mother when she is elderly, partly because she has offered me no support as an adult.

My mother gave the support to her parent out of guilt and did this instantly after her children were grown - so add on another 10/15 years of caring for someone AFTER you just spent 20 years raising your kids. So she's likely all 'cared out' and wants her own life/time back.

I sat and watched this happen and I don't want it for myself - It is selfish.

So the payoff is that I let my mum have the rest of her life to enjoy without being burdened to me, and then I probably won't be burdened to her later on (I will help but i am not going to take on a carer role)

"the baby boomers often had a lot of help from their parents and now they have retired with time on their hands and good pensions they are unwilling to offer their kids the help they got so readily"

Really? What utter rubbish.

Caroline, you are so bitter about this subject that you are either one of the mothers we are talking about or you had no help so you can't stand the thought of someone else having it.

We are not wrong for wanting our mothers help when we have our own children. Just because we have given birth doesn't stop us from being daughters who still require their mothers support and love.

At times when we are so low and over stressed we feel that by our mums offering to help we are being nurtured and loved. You don't stop wanting this just because your an adult now with children.

There is an 'army' of around 9 million grandparents, providing free childminding to support their offspring returning to work. Perhaps not surprisingly, beloved offspring expect this service for free (or else theyd arrange their own, No?) So whose profiting from this arrangement?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/21/childminding-grandparents-hire-babysitters-give-rest-new-report/

Yanbu - to my mind it is not about whether your DM is jumping up and down with excitement to do childcare (perfectly understable if not) but whether she is prepared to set aside what she wants temporarily to help you, her daughter, out out at a difficult time. That is what people do for their friends and family generally. I would be extremely hurt if I was really struggling and I asked my mother for specific help and she turned a blind eye.

I can only think that she just doesn't believe it's all that bad - possibly being slightly wilfully blind if she is really not keen on childcare. Or she is worried about getting sucked into an ongoing role and/or thinks you need to stand on your own feet (fairly or unfairly).

For the sake of the relationship I would look at other options like paid babysitting and think about other ways in which your DM could help you which are perhaps less of an issue for her? Otherwise if you ask for help make it very specific and clear that it's temporary and that you have other support in place?

Candle, you are so wrong on so many levels. My gripe is quite simply the one way street, that indeed your post has reiterated. Its the me, I, my needs generation (sweeping generalisations right back at you). The vast majority of young mothers from every generation (unless you live in a small village in wales with family immediately around you) did it alone. My point is, that maternity leave, child care provision, provision for low income families, the law on child support /separation/housing, has never been as supportive of young mothers, as it is today. This whole baby boomer argument is utterly ignorant, and dare I point out, filled with bitterness.

Perhaps a change in attitude from one of, you had it easy in your day you should help me out, to mum, I cant believe you managed to do what you did with no childcare places, no tax credits, no support for 'behavioural' issues (because of course they only appeared in the last 10 years), 6 weeks or 3 months maternity leave (depending on which generation of baby boomer youre attacking) no paternity leave, Im finding it really difficult?

I sometimes read posts on here and wonder if certain posters have read anything the OP has put. This is one of those times.

Caroline. I really don't expect my DM to hand everything to me on a plate. I don't think for a moment that she had everything incredibly easy, though the hardships were different. I don't expect endless free childcare. My children are at nursery while we work and I wouldn't have it any other way. Of course I realised small children were hard work (but of course did not realise, because no one does really until you're in the middle of it.) I did not anticipate though that when my baby was a year old I would be in a position of trying to hold down a full time job on an average of 4 broken hours sleep per night. Maybe I should have done, but I did not. And you know what? If I had known that this was how it was going to be, I wouldn't have had a second child. That's a bloody painful sentence to type because DS2 is gorgeous and wonderful and amazing and I love him to pieces. But I do sometimes wish that we'd never had him because everyone (including DS1) would be a lot happier and healthier. However, we are where we are, and where we are is that I'm at breaking point and feel that my mum doesn't care. If that makes me a self-centred generation bashing cow, then so be it.

Candle has it exactly I think:
We are not wrong for wanting our mothers help when we have our own children. Just because we have given birth doesn't stop us from being daughters who still require their mothers support and love.

At times when we are so low and over stressed we feel that by our mums offering to help we are being nurtured and loved. You don't stop wanting this just because your an adult now with children.

That's it in a nutshell.

Op, you sound very down and I can recall feeling the same when I had a poorly dd2 and working full time with my dh working away a lot. My dm would not help out at all. However, as the girls grew older she helped out in the holidays and although she was a difficult woman my dds have really happy memories of their time with her.

To flip it, I am a grandparent carer, have started again and brought up two boys. I have been doing the school run for 25 years. It has been hard, but not anything to do with the children, just the fact that the father of one has taken me to court constantly for contact and my resistance is his extreme violence. It has forced me to live in a state of fear and it has been very stressful.

My eldest dd now has two more children with her dh. I used to have the eldest during the holidays, but he is difficult to manage and I mean difficult. Her baby is just lovely but I simply cannot face having him overnight. I know in myself that enough is enough. She makes regular pa comments that there is only her sister who can babysit but what little time I get to myself, I just want to be alone.

Sometimes the thought of it is harder than the reality and I think this may be your parents' position. While I may sound selfish, I just wanted to give another perspective.

I agree with Caroline
Would have loved the state assistance parents get today! I didn't get very much assistance from SM - the only 'GP' around - except when DC very ill but I learnt not to expect it. My DC my choice.
Now almost old enough to be a reviled babyboomer! But, as with most actual or potential GPs, don't get to retire till 66 so not the charmed idle life you imagine :)

And I do remember the zombie-like state of interrupted sleep over so long... But it passes.
So I can empathise. And its nice to have help.
I do wonder if people lose confidence with young children once they pass the time when they had them themselves. My expertise evolved with the age of my DC. And new parents lists of instructions and Do's/don'ts can be quite daunting....

Putting aside the generation argues, I really can't imagine saying "no, I served my time" to struggling family member or friend if directly approached for help and being able to help.

It would be lovely if they could help but the problem is that you need to arrange your life differently. I suspect she sees it won't just be a one off, that you need to see that your work, home life isn't working for you so something has to change. If your mum doesn't want to offer childcare then you've got to look at other ways. Maybe get a nanny or au pair or you or your husband cut down on working hoursor work different shifts or whatever.

Most of us don't have any help so we have to sort our lives to suit. I became a sahm when I had my second and went on to have 2 more. With dh working away a lot or late into the evening, we didn't have couple time or rest etc. Having young children is full on and I don't blame the grandparents if they decide that they don't want to do it again.

Going against the grain it seems here but it seems you expect your DM to help out... should be a bonus IMO!

Mil had 2 weeks bed rest after her c section.

Day 4 after mine she was surprised I hadn't made her and fil lunch when they visited. Didn't bring any food sat waiting to be hosted business as usual. Visiting midwife was appalled.

I do sympathise OP, (I know hard to believe!) but perhaps nows the time to be utterly practical. Im sure youve got your morning routine off to a fine military art, jus to get out the door each day, try to think practically about evenings/nights/weekends. Try to see what sort of help and when would help you. Do you want a day off on a weekend? Would that help? Is it the evening routines that are utterly wearing? What steps could help, now, today?

Then ask your mum for something definate. Its too much imo to put responsibility for DC2 on your mum, youre clearly working through things and it will get better, but youd be mortified if she childminded and fed DC2 pizza! (There was a thread about this a while back) So how do you think your mum could help you practically now? Would having DC1 every other weekend actually be really helpfull? Its not favouritism, its the reality that DC1 happily settles at DPs.

Its a period of time. It will pass. But do be clear on what you feel would practically help.

Most of us don't have any help so we have to sort our lives to suit.

Not sure how true that is, especially for parents of very young children as OP is. This suggests 35% of parents have some grandparent care, but it's higher when the children are younger as OPs are.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/181364/CWRC-00083-2011.pdf

Millennium Cohort said 71% when the mother is working and/or studying. And this is before we consider help from other family members too.

So help from family is something that, at absolute minimum, exists in a very sizeable minority of families and, for those where both parents are working (like OPs) probably a majority. Perfectly understandable that someone would feel saddened not to have access to this help, especially when the person who prefers not to bother received a great deal of help themselves. That must feel like an extra kick in the teeth.

Plus, nothing OP has said suggests this is something that can be tackled by just changing her life. She's on 4 hours sleep a night, and has a young child with health issues who cries a lot because of them. There's no life or work arrangement where that wouldn't be an absolute bastard to deal with. This is before we even consider the question of whether either parent could reduce their hours of work, or afford a nanny, or house an au pair.

My mum has never had kids overnight and on the 2 occasions she's had them for the day it's been an ordeal and she's just let them watch tv and eat crap all day. It's a shame and she's missing out but I've chosen to distance myself.

This is the problem. People want "support", "help" etc, but want to be able to dictate how that is provided. If your DM or anyone else unpaid is taking care of your kids, you should be thankful rather than criticizing how they do it. A day of watching TV and eating crap won't kill the kids, and it still gives the parents a day off.

"It takes a village" worked with the village all parented the same way. It doesn't work when one condition after another is set, and any deviation from that is seen as "an ordeal".