He had an affair...breaking out the Ben & Jerry's (2)

[Syc4moreTrees]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/thirty_days_only/2914533-If-hes-having-an-affair?

Not sure if I've managed to create a link to the old thread...someone more tech savvy can maybe help me out a little bit if not?

The old thread closed before i could thank you all again for all the collective wisdom, it's been a very surreal month to say the least, but it's been crazy how much support you can get from a bunch of lovely strangers.

So thanks!! You're all awesome!

I'm so conflicted 😔

He needs to get back to work (we're both self employed), but there is no way enough room for him to set stuff up at his parents. I'm trying to resist making decisions to punish him, even though it's very hard not to want to just smack him in the head and make his life difficult. I don't want to make an already horrendous situation worse by allowing myself to behave badly in response. I just don't really know what a reasonable reaction is.

Part of me thinks it would be helpful for him to rent someplace, even if it's just a work space if he can live with PIL for a little longer, but he keeps telling me that's like giving up on the hope we can get past this.

From his point of view I guess he thinks he's said sorry now, he's stopped doing it, and now it's up to me to either suck it up and move on, or to pull the plug on things.

I don't feel like I have any head space at all for making the decisions!

I know there's a split here of people who stayed and people who left, can you remember how you knew what to do? What was right for you? Do any of you regret?

Sorry if I'm making no sense, after my initial elation at finishing my case I feel so deflated and sad. I've just been doing work stuff to keep busy and now it's back to reality again

Yey for maternity leave!!

Hope everything goes well for the move and just sit back and let him do all the packing it really is the least he could do. If you're worried about him moving himself in but do want him there to help you out could you put an end date in place like six weeks after you've given birth he needs to have his own place to move into and mention that regularly at such and such date you'll be out yet? Also can you see if there is any office space to rent close by he could use as a freelancer if he needs a lot of stuff? If not he could just hit up a Starbucks

He booked a second visit to London and would have carried on his affair whilst you sit at home heavily pregnant with his 3rd child if you had not caught him.

He has shown fuck all remorse and appears to believe your being unreasonable.

Ask him why he wants to 'fix' your marriage?
Ask him why why he thinks he deserves you?
Ask him if the shoe was on the other foot, could he ever forgive such a betrayal?

I couldn't forgive, it was just constantly in my head and told him to go see if the grass is greener.

I couldn't allow my girls to think that such behaviour is acceptable or a part of a healthy, loving relationship - if he loved me, he wouldn't have wanted anyone else.

You need time, time and more time and perhaps a bit of space too.
Him renting somewhere to work is not 'giving up' it is helping you. I can see how he just wants everything back to normal so you can ignore what he did, but you both need to face it, accept it, and forgive before you can move on. However you choose to move on.

Ignoring will just leave a festering boil hiding, it will come out sometime sooner or later.

You will make your own decision in your own time. I don't know you, but if he pushes you to make a decision when you are vulnerable you may end up resenting that as much as the 'affair'. I would suggest you don't like being bossed around.

Explain to him the space is for you to make the right decision not just any decision. He might not like it but that is the consequence of his actions. Man up and face it.

Part of me thinks it would be helpful for him to rent someplace ... but he keeps telling me that's like giving up on the hope we can get past this

So, turning this on its head, it seems as though he feels that if he does move to the new house with you, then that is giving him the signal that you will get past this - and you are not ready to give him this signal.

Ask him if the shoe was on the other foot, could he ever forgive such a betrayal?

I wouldn't bother asking him this - he'll just say yes (even if it isn't true).

I know he has done a lot of removal/packing work - but he would have been doing that anyway. He has been reluctant and/or slow to do the things you have asked him to do to show that he is serious about making amends - coming off his game, deleting people etc - he had to be given time to do that (and I suspect his parents put their oar in there too).

I can tell though from the tone of your posts that you are very very weary, so if it works to have him there for a pre-arranged limited amount of time, then I am sure nobody would blame you - even if then the limited time was perhaps extended. I think it will be hard to then say, after 3 months or so that no, it isn't working, you can't get over it and he needs to leave - but this possibility will have to be made clear to him and he must expect it.

You ask how people knew what to do in these circumstances. Well, like you, they don't always. My ex had an affair when we were both coming up to 40. He wanted to leave with the OW and move abroad with her and leave me with our children who were then 10 and 8 - but at the last moment she changed her mind, dumped him and went back to her ex. My ex was devastated at losing her and having ugly old me instead (she was 10 years younger).

I wanted my him to leave - but like yours, he didn't want to. He didn't have a job, he was doing final exams blah de blah. He refused to live with or even tell his parents. He got angry with me when he kept asking me what I wanted and I kept saying that I wanted space, for him to leave. In the end, in temper, I said "I keep telling you what I want and you keep telling me I can't have it - so why don't you just tell me what you're going to do?". He then asked for another chance and I was weary and sad so I said yes.

Eight years later HE decided it wasn't what he wanted and buggered off anyway - at a much less favourable time for me. I kept his dirty secret for 8 years - and what good did it do me? I have never had another partner - and not only that, neither of our children (who are now in their 30s) has a LT partner. I am sure that somehow, even though we didn't intend it, our relationship damaged them in this way. I now consider those eight years to have been wasted from my point of view.

You aren't in quite so bad a position as I was - family and friends know what he's done, so they don't expect you to be playing happy families. You sound as though you have a reasonable income and you have supportive family (well I had that too) - but you have to make it clear to him that you are not in a position to decide for certain now whether you want him back.

I am really sorry this is so long - hope it is of some use to you.

Trees I think it boils down to whether you feel he is really sorry and repentant. Do you feel confident that he won't screw up likr this again? And most importantly do you still love him and want to rebuild with him?

We can all speculate on here his real his remorse is but only you see it face to face to know what he's really feeling.

Trees you have been more than reasonable and he is still being incredibly selfish. You have told him what he can do to help you and he's not doing it - because he doesn't want to, and fundamentally he believes his feelings are more important than yours.

From his point of view I guess he thinks he's said sorry now, he's stopped doing it, and now it's up to me to either suck it up and move on, or to pull the plug on things. So he wants to fix things, but not if it involves any actual effort on his part? Or does he just want to make you the bad guy because "he tried"? As socialengineering says, he'd still be having the affair if he hadn't been caught and somewhere in his mind he knows the OW is there as a fallback - if she's drunk emailing you she's surely doing the same to him, even if he's not responding.

You deserve much, much better.

but he keeps telling me that's like giving up on the hope we can get past this this is emotional blackmail. You are heavily pregnant, how fucking dare he!

Also if there's no room for his work stuff at his parents - that's his problem not yours. He's had time to sort something out but he couldn't be arsed.

Trees, I'm so sorry you have had to go through this at such a vulnerable time. I am a solicitor and I have no idea how you have managed to keep up with your caseload and appear in court with all this going on and being heavily pregnant, you've done amazingly well. Honestly!

My thoughts, for what it's worth, is that he needs to stay out for now. You've established a status quo with the DC of daddy living elsewhere and I think you need to be 100% sure that you want to give the marriage another go before he comes back so as to cause minimal disruption.

I also think you need a period of time to think about all this when you're not pregnant or in a post natal hormone fog and I can't see that you'll get that if he moves back in. I think in his mind if you say yes to this it will signal to him (rightly or wrongly) that you are on the road to forgiving him and all he needs to do is keep up the best behaviour for long enough and it will all be forgotten.

I think in your shoes I think I would tell him to stay at his mum and dad's and get a workspace. You can emphasise that it's unreasonable to expect you to make a proper decision whilst pregnant/recovering from the birth and you need time and space.

I would get a night nanny/maternity nurse in to help you for at least 2 weeks, preferably 4 (or 6!) so that you have someone you can rely on so you can rest, especially if you have a section. Realistically you will need someone there 24 hours a day for at least 2 weeks.

Once baby is born and you are recovered you can look into getting some counselling together to work out the best way forward and then make a decision in your own time without the pressure.

I really wish you all the best op and best of luck with the c-section and your lovely new baby.

Its not your fault there isno space for his work stuff.. he is the one that is refusing to get his own place. He hasnt taken responsibility.

He is forcing you to make a decision before you are ready.

Hes is looking more and more like a cock lodger.

Only you get to decide how and when you move on from this. He doesn't get to do the I've said sorry wait more do you want routine. Is he sorry or sorry he was caught.

Do whatever you need to do right now as you're at a vulnerable time, but in no way let him think you've magically forgiven him.

You may not be able to get past this so do not let him emotionally blackmail you. How dare he.

There are so, so many co-working spaces he could use, cheap desks/offices etc. He really doesn't NEED to come back to your new home.

You can do so much better than him. If you let him move in with you it will be so much harder kicking him out again and more unsettling for the kids so don't allow that unless you choose to forgive and remain married to him.

As for the birth which you mentioned up thread; if there's any possibility that him being there will trigger distressing emotions then for your own safety and that of your baby you need to keep him out. You don't want to have your blood pressure shoot up to dangerous levels or have a breakdown during the birth. The only important thing is that you and the baby emerge healthy, only someone who can keep you calm should be there with you.

I agree with Schnitzel, he's laying on the emotional blackmail so that he doesn't have to take any responsibility, whether that's practical or emotional.

You need to tell him that he's deciding that's the case not you, and right now he's not making the decisions. So if he can't see that you need space and he needs a desk in a co-working space (I have in the past arranged one for DH within 45 min when our internet went down so it's not hard), then he's basically that he doesn't want to try. And if he's not going to do what you want, right now, he can go away.

I've not been posting because you've had so much good advice from people who've been through it, but this has made me furious. How dare he lay it on like that when you are heavily pregnant and he's betrayed you.

If his parents are still being helpful, I might have a chat with them too. Tell them that if he really wants the marriage to work, he'd better get his finger out and Do What You Say.

He absolutely 100% needs to rent a place of his own to work/live.

Tell him that if doesn't and keeps hanging around like a bad smell invading your space you will really lose your shit and that will be the end of your marriage.

You need time. A 6 month lease on a property nearby would give you that space but also mean he can help out.

If you take him back it has to be your decision freely made, not because he won't leave you alone.

He also needs to stop telling the children it's up to you when he comes back. That is manipulative and cruel.

Just to emphasise that he coukd be 100% genuinely remorseful and you could even forgive him completely but that still wouldn't mean that you'd be obliged to have a relationship with him. That same relationship doesn't exist any more. He broke it and it's not fixable. You could choose to start over with him but you can't have the same one back. It's gone.

If he moves into the new house it will be very confusing and upsetting for your children if he then moves out again, especially if they're already feeling a bit squeezed out by the new arrival. And on past form he'll definitely play it as "I'm so sad but mummy is making me leave".

You said on the other thread that the new house would be a safe place for you and your DC, don't let WH take that away. One day you might want him to come and join you there. But let it be YOUR choice, made with joy.

I have a friend who stayed with her husband after a full blown affair. He actually moved in with the OW for a short period. She set out a list of demands, including ending all contact with the skank whore (who knew all about her and their 3 kids) and her husband obliged. They also attended counselling together and made time for family day trips and time together - something that they'd let slide after so long together. They've come through the other side and are now happier and stronger than ever. They're living proof that it can be done if you're prepared to work on it very bloody hard and ultimately forgive him.

His counsellor thinks we've spent too much time together, and that we should have interests outside each other and the kids. Too much togetherness is apparently what has lead him down the route of this OW.

I don't really know what to say about all that.

You're all very wise ladies, and have given me lots to think about. I really don't want to confuse the kids any more than they already have been, so will speak to him about renting nearby if we can make that work financially. The new house will be a little further from his parents, and someone will have to do school runs until we make it to the summer. My only family is my brother and he's quite a distance away so not much help practically, though invaluable in all other ways.

It wild how life changes before your eyes sometimes.

Too much time together led to him having an affair? Rubbish. Him being a dick led to him having an affair.

WTF?! Your working parents to young children, what time does he and his therapist think is available for hobbies? Oh hang on...he did have a hobby and time to himself to play it and look where that led.

Tell him he can have that space he so desperately needs....in his very own flat! What a dick!!!

he's just minimising op, don't listen to his silly nonsense!

Oh and tell him he needs a new counsellor

Too much time together?! That's a convenient excuse. I'm pretty sure it was his obsession with his bloody game and time to himself playing said game that lead him to meet the OW in the first place?

Fuck that shit.

Too much time together?

Sorry Trees, but I call bullshit. What utter crap