What are your boundaries/red lines for dating?

[Girlywurly]

I'm thinking about this today, because yesterday I had to cancel an otherwise promising first date because the guy had still not confirmed details of where/when we were meeting by lunchtime on the day of the date, due to having lots of unscheduled business meetings.

I feel that this is very disrespectful of me, my time, and my work and parenting responsibilities. I'm not going to get all dressed up and sit waiting for my phone to buzz, especially when I've got a babysitter in who I've had to pay for.

The guy in question seemed quite surprised and uncomprehending when I messaged him to say I don't do last minute meets and suggest we were not compatible in this regard.

Got me thinking how everything has different notions of what's acceptable.

So what are your boundaries/red lines for dating?

Wow; typical MN the original post is completely lost in internal arguments and gets twisted to each posters particular viewpoint and hobby horse.

In answer to the original post; OP totally agree if the other person cannot be bothered (whatever sex) to put as much effort into their personal life as their business, and worse than that assume you don't also have the time pressures as they do, then why bother. I would have done the same.

All the other issues of who pays and who doesn't are down to personal preferences, background, upbringing, whatever drives us all and our view of the world; we are all different, get over it.

Again referring to original post; what are red lines and boundaries, for me.........selfishness, bad manners, racism, uncleanliness, overbearing, and yes all their ex's are wrong and mad!

Interesting thread though kept me amused for a few minutes.

Sorry helena I can't post a reply to your question because any answer I'd give would be patronising and disingenuous.

Sorry helena I can't post a reply to your question because any answer I'd give would be patronising and disingenuous.

Oh dear.

Yikes, Computer, even my parentheses are slutty!?!

Niche? You betcha. For the discerning (and loaded) gentleman only.

So Bant if you went on a date with a woman whether it be a third fourth or fifth date and it progressed to the bedroom you honestly wouldnt mind if she had hairy legs due to forgoing a wax so she could afford to pay her way on dates. Because for women on a low income it does come down to choices.

Another important point well made by Helena.

And shout out to Brogadaccio who is right about, well, everything!!!

Bant, I think you are doing a reductio ad absurdum here. The OP is after a short term fling or two and wants her dates to organise and pay as a kind of seduction ritual. That doesn't make her an escort. She does not want them to pay a lot, nor does she want to date anyone she doesn't fancy anyway, both of which are required of escorts. The money is symbolic of the effort she wants them to make so she feels desirable, not a fee for her services.

Personally, to me as a bloke the OP sounds like an over-sensitive PITA who spends half her life studying this stuff. Dating her wouldn't be worth the hassle for me. Obviously she needs to know the time well in advance so she can arrange babysitting. But expecting her date to show "leadership" by choosing an, er, cocktail bar 7 hours in advance seems nuts. However this is what a lot of women are like, they expect guys to invest time and effort, otherwise they feel they're giving themselves away too easily to someone who's not that bothered. Totally different mindset to most guys, but there it is. Equating this to escorting is disproportionate.

BTW I don't buy this tosh about women in the UK getting paid 30% less. In the UK women aged under 40 in full time work earn on average slightly more than men. After 40 men earn more on average, again mainly because by that point they've spent a lot longer working, work longer hours and are expected to be main breadwinners by themselves and others. Women are far more likely to choose to work part time and to choose family friendly careers and that carries a financial cost by mid-career. That's their choice, not society's problem. Pay discrimination has rightly been unlawful for decades.

Yep, dogfish, I think your first paragraph is a pretty accurate summary.

Don't fully understand why less hassle is preferable though? I'd rather have excitement than ease.

Was chatting recently with that male bestie I mentioned earlier and he said that he loved being around women such as myself who seem to harbour the conviction that they're the protagonists of a grand romantic narrative, and deserving of all the excitement, drama and pleasure that entails. He said he found it humorous but also hugely enlivening, and that he wouldn't want to live without it.

I thought it was a really odd thing to say, but quite interesting too. Maybe there are other men who feel this way too?

Hassle doesn't equate to excitement. Sometimes hassle is just that; hassle.

If planning a date and letting me know well in advance where/when to present myself is too much hassle, then that's not a man I have anything further to say to.

Fair point OP. See it as a game and it can be exciting, like a dance. And a dance is your romantic narrative in a coded form. For some people dances are glorious, for others they're a palaver. Particularly if you do one every day.

There's a fine line between loving a dance and being a princess. But your bestie's comments are not at all odd, and if there weren't a lot of chaps who feel like him balls and grand weddings would never take place because blokes would never have initiated them unprompted.

My friend, (who's known me since I was 18), said that in spite of aging, chronic disease, PND and relationship breakdown, I've not surrendered the notion of myself as a romantic heroine that I had when we met as freshers all those years ago. He says that gives him courage.

Thought that was quite a nice thing to say. Also think that it's a shame that so many of the responses on here have been, 'you're not all that, OP ', 'who do you think you are?' etc. Isn't life hard enough without dragging everything down to the same dreary level?!

Sex, romance dating, etc are supposed to be FUN!!

Thanks, dogfish.

Feeling a bit misty-eyed and sentimental this morning!!

OP - I have skim read the thread and just wanted to say fair play to you.

You know your boundaries, you know what you want, and you have handled the criticism on this thread very well.

The reason this topic has interested me is because before my current DP, I was very much of the "go dutch" mentality - I didn't want to "owe" anyone anything or for anyone to think they owned me by buying me things and paying for stuff.

Our first date was amazing as I finally thought fuck it, he is insisting on paying, just let him pay. The places we went were out of my reach financially and he wanted to take me. So I did it.

I am really glad I did. Its been a year now, and my initial fears of "owing" and "owning" have been dispelled. I pay for the odd day out / lunch / cabs / trips - what I can afford. He pays for the vast majority of stuff...because he wants me to enjoy these things with him...not because he wants to lord it over me.

He still sends me flowers and buys me treats and pays for most evenings out. On the first page of this thread a PP said this romantic stuff at the beginning of a relationship is a red flag.... It made me wonder. Is it still a red flag if he is doing this stuff a year into the relationship?? Or is he just a harmless soppy romantic bloke?

If I was your chap lego, there'd soon come a point when I'd start wondering if the relationship was conditional on me being the benefactor, whether because of the outlay itself or because if what it said about me. Then I'd reign in the spending and see if anything changed. If I knew my treats & nights out were being viewed with suspicion, no way would I continue with them. Your chap sounds ever so slightly naive, TBH.

We love each other very much, dog.

He has told me that he shows his love for me through gifts and treats. He knows that if he was penniless I would still be completely in love with him, and I would. It took me a long while to get used to the way he treats me. I can't quite believe how my post has been construed! I spend what I can when I can...but as a mother with a part time job it is difficult. I show him my love in other ways. He doesn't doubt my love and I know he loves me and we are very happy. I just wondered if people saw his over indulgence of me as a red flag, as someone mentioned up thread

That's great to hear, sounds lovely. Am a dude myself and none of my numerous male friends would dream of throwing money at a lass in order to control her, far from it. He will be delighted to know it's not all about the nights out.

If planning a date and letting me know well in advance where/when to present myself is too much hassle, then that's not a man I have anything further to say to

You don't say!

Anyway, good luck on your dating escapades.

Rude to waiters
Bad socks
Keeps you waiting to arrange times (was contacted at 6 pm once!)
Bad breath

I'm with you on all of those scabby.

I'd never want anything to do with a man in ostentatious socks.

But how do you cop a look at their foot-garb before things get too far advanced...?

On the same subject, I don't like men who thinks it's OK to keep them on in flagrante. Socks are not bedroom attire!

OP I don’t know why you’re getting such a hard time on this thread, I’m totally with you on the confirmation times. I went on two dates with a man once, and he seemed completely normal. He got slightly funny if I left it too long to answer his texts, but I didn’t really think anything of it. Until our third date, when he kept me waiting till half seven that night to confirm (I lived right in the centre of the city at the time, so not quite as bad as it sounds, but still). I told him he’d left it too late and we’d have to rearrange and he hit the roof. Sent five (longish) texts in a row, traducing my character, and saying he never, ever wanted to see me again. It was the most bizarre overreaction I’ve ever witnessed. And leads me to believe that keeping you waiting to confirm means one of two things, neither good: a) I’m lazy and can’t really be arsed, or b) I’m weird and very controlling.

She's not speaking for you. She's merely saying that she, personally, finds men attractive if they pay for a date. We all find different things attractive in other people.

Certainly wouldn't wish to speak for you, Afterthestorm. In fact, other than applauding Helena's point, I think I've avoided remarking on the grooming issue thus far.

It sounds as though our price points are pretty similar for beauty purchases. I think you may have understated how these things can add up though, and end up consuming quite a large chunk of a limited budget. Also, there's the issue of time. For Thursday's abortive date, I'd set aside a couple of hours the previous evening to do full hair removal (with my cheapie razors), had spent some time picking out outfits, done a mani-pedi and had popped into town to get my brows threaded and pick up some (Primark ) hosiery!! On the day, I knew I needed about 1.5-2hrs to shower, blow-dry my hair and do full makeup. That's time I could have been working - equivalent to about half a day. It has a financial value, even if it's not easy to determine exactly what that is. There's also the mental load: the effort involved in keeping track of all these miscellaneous tasks and scheduling them in alongside work, childcare, housekeeping, etc.

I don't feel resentful about making these efforts. No one's forcing me - I could turn up in a onesie with unwashed hair if I wanted to. The bottom line is, I like having sex with very attractive men. It's a priority for me so I do what I have to make sure it happens!! I want to attract my partner and turn him on, but if he's making scant efforts to do the same for me, well, it ain't gonna happen!! I don't demand an effort from him that's in excess of what I make. Obviously, some people will prefer a more casual approach, but if that's the case, they won't be compatible with me.

(I do on the other hand feel massively resentful about the obligations on women to prettify themselves up, wear loads of slap, etc in environments such as the workplace, where sexual appeal shouldn't come into it. But that's another thread.)

Sorry not read the whole thread. You do sound a little more traditional and princessy than I would be. I'm more of a laid back type so wouldn't really need to know venue till the day - so long as the date was definitely on. I wouldn't expect to be paid for at all - because I prefer to be an equal party in a relationship (and I've mostly earned more than most men I meet). I suspect the guy was more like my style than yours.

But then I'm not a high heels, skirt and dressed to the nines type either, as on a weekday night I'm usually in work clothes and at the weekend pretty casual.

I had a more traditional boyfriend at one point who wanted to me to wear more skirts and dresses - which I didnt think was cool on a casual london saturday night. We parted ways.