Would really really appreciate some advice...

[5Wilf5]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice if possible please. I apologise in advance if this is a long post but I need to get my feelings out.

I am a 41 year old guy, been with my wife since age of 22 - married for 10 years. 2 gorgeous children aged 5 and 3.

Ever since we got together the physical side of our relationship has been poor, and that's being polite. I estimate we have had sex less than 20 times in 20 years, and that takes in the times it took to conceive two children. I am a physical person, I love the thought of being intimate and close with someone, my wife is the opposite - she is cold and I think she feels awkward in intimate situations. I don't blame her for this, her parents are the worst union of two people it's possible to imagine, and they ultimately got divorced after 35 years of marriage.

Any form of closeness between us over the years has been virtually absent, very limited holding hands, hugging, no cuddling up on the sofa enjoying a glass of wine etc. As I sit here and write this I cant even remember the last time she smiled at me, let alone laughed.

In 2012 I started having an affair with someone we both know (shitty I know, I'm sorry). The sense of excitement for both of us was off the scale - she was in a not great relationship too, also with two kids. We were both quite measured about it at first - it was just an affair we were enjoying, we were not going to do anything to endanger our marriages, specifically our children.

Time went on and we became much much closer, after about 2 years I realised I really loved this person and, although she never told me how she felt, I know she had very strong feelings for me.

Ultimately, sadly, we split up circa August '16 due to the fact that she was terrified that if her husband found out he would go for custody of their children. So she is carrying on with her marriage for the sake of keeping her family unit together, and I respect her for that.

Just before Christmas last year guilt and sheer frustration finally got the better of me and I told my wife what had been going on between me and the other woman. For a couple of hours my wife was devastated, then seemingly returned to normal. We carry on now as if nothing had ever happened, my wife still even chats to the other woman via text and if they see each other at school. I can't get my head round that at all to be honest.

So now I am left in a situation where I am not in love with my wife, I'm not father of the year but I adore my boys, and yet I've remembered how wonderful it is to have a close relationship with somebody.

What do I do? Leave and go and live in a flat, hoping that I might meet someone and the psychological damage to my children isn't too bad? Stick with it at home, hoping things might just get better? The thought of not having a real relationship with anyone for the rest of my life makes me feel physically sick.

I'd really appreciate anyone's help, at times I've been so low and felt so trapped I've been nearly suicidal.

Thank you

So, different set of circumstances but when I was a teenager I had an affair with a man who sounds very similar to you, OP. He didn't have any kids but was otherwise in a similar circumstance: he had married someone he didn't have much emotional or sexual connection with and I was the consequence of that. They had- at the time the affair started- been married five years and had sex twice. She had issues surrounding penetration and didn't like having anything inside her. Was all very fucked up. Anyway, he did leave her for me in the end but that was all a horrible mess and we didn't last. He ended up getting back together and I bet they- to this day- haven't had sex again. It just wasn't on the radar with them and it didn't ever seem to be brought up.

BUT he was fucked up ....Dad had abandoned him and his very young teenage mother early on, he had been married in his early twenties and he and his wife had a daughter who died a few days after birth and she consequently had a breakdown and left him for a colleague. He had literally pointed to a town on a map and moved there with nothing and no one- just happened to be the town I lived in. Married his second wife within two years of meeting her. I'm not excusing the affair he then had with me and the horrible marriage that they wouldn't discuss and the trail of destruction he left in his wake BUT there were very clear reasons he was such a mess- what's your reason OP? You don't have to tell us but you need to think about what's lead you here and deal with those things because otherwise, like my ex, you're just doomed to have a miserable life.

No wonder she doesn't want to have sex, you cheated on her and she doesn't trust you.

But he had the time and emotional capital to not just have a very long affair, but to hide it from his wife. For years. He could have used that time and emotional capital to try to improve things - or end - his marriage. He chose not to.
Exactly. No matter how sad the circumstances, he made a number of deliberate choices in not addressing the problem for many years, then starting and continuing the affair. Now he's sad and frustrated because he got dumped. Boo fucking hoo. If it wasn't for this continued demonstration of self serving behaviour I might have some sympathy for the rest of it. Note I'm not the only one thinking telling his wife now (and letting her come to terms with it while he's away) is kinder than waiting and then springing it all on her. But I doubt OP is thinking of his wife in this....

I don't really Agree with affairs (why would you not just leave if unhappy and then start a new relationship once free to do so) however I feel for you because this doesn't seem like a marriage. My parents were unhappy and showed little affection to each other I'd say your children would be better off seeing you apart and in a healthy relationship with someone else children need positive role models for relationships and being only surrounded by unhealthy relationships can affect them

I've resisted posting on here, both because i am starting to wonder if I know the OP who may have changed some details and also because I am looking at it from a point of view that would probably mean a flaming from most on this thread.

The only person I feel sorry for in this whole set up is the OW. Yes I feel sad for the wife but really I do believe that any woman in a long term sexless marriage knows there is a chance their DH could stray. Especially if there is no real connection or discussion between them. I think the very fact she was briefly devastated then okay with it says a lot. Surely she should have been wanting to know answers or walked away? Or at the very least continually bringing it up...."you didn't put the bins out, and you shagged that mum from school", that kind of thing. I think she is well aware that her DH could be getting it elsewhere but would rather not think about it because she is happy with the set up.

And sympathy for the OP. Not on your nelly. See the thing is he had this amazing connection with someone, but he's not longing for that is he? Instead he wants a nice little flat somewhere in "intimate connectionville" where women are going to be knocking on his door all ready for a relationship. It's not like that out in the dating world. The nice women, the ones who are kind and nice and amazing in bed - they are married.

The OW loved you. She was obviously in a shit marriage to the extent she was worried her DH may take the kids. And when she told you this and said her only option was to stay in an unhappy marriage, you let her go back to that. Rather than manning up and being what she needed, being honest with your wife, and moving towards a life with someone who tried to make you happy. Instead you told your wife (which could have been disastrous for the OW) and when that didn't work you sunk into the "my wife doesn't understand me, I need somebody to adore me, why is my life so awful".

I sincerely hope the OW finds the courage to leave her DH and finds someone new who can make her happy. It must be horrendous for her to watch you and your DW together and know that whatever she offered you, you preferred to be unhappy in your marriage.

I truly hope OP that you find the courage to make a decision with all of this, not to spend years pinballing between women looking for something that may never exist again.

Yes I feel sad for the wife but really I do believe that any woman in a long term sexless marriage knows there is a chance their DH could stray.
I do feel sorry for those in a sexless marriage where there are no physical /mental/emotional reasons for it, but I would still expect the unsatisfied partner to try and come to some mutually acceptable solution without cheating. As OP seems not to have tried this to any great extent, I hardly think his wife should have been expecting him to go out and cheat.
As for OW, if her marriage was so shitty that she felt she had to cheat, why couldn't she find a single and available man? So no sympathy there I'm afraid. Did she expect a lying cheat to be her white knight and rescue her from her crappy marriage? Probably not.

Am writing this from hotel room on iPhone. @strawberryshortcake40 you've really unnerved me, I've read your post about 10 times - I don't think you do know me, but please could you pm me and tell me who you are?

@standingupforitanywhere yours was a lovely post thank you so so much. Honestly I could not have put it any better myself.

I am finding some posts on here laughable - and I mean laughable - the thought that after 20 years with someone (that's half of my entire lifetime) and two children who we both adore I would tell my wife one night that I intend to split up with her and move out...... And then piss off with work for a week the next morning. What a complete joke. I can hardly even be bothered replying to this sort of garbage.

Youll forgive me if I have not described the relationship between my wife and me very well. It is strange and it it is hard to describe. Yes there is little if any physical emotion or sex between us, no we don't have loads of laughter or making jokes all the time, but we do have a fantastic understanding of each other, time, experience and knowledge. A deep connection, if you like, without on the surface showing much outward signs of love. Brother sister is the only way I can think of describing it, brother sister, not sister sister.

Other questions I can think of offvthe top of my head: no, not virgins. I am from a perfectly normal background. Nothing to comment on that.

One other thought (again thank you @standingupforitanywhere) my wife's father is an extremely intelligent and well qualified man who is socially awkward. My wife thinks he is borderline autistic spectrum. I do wonder if there is more of this in her than I first realised, that she has always found it hard to deal with things like this

Thanks

And then piss off with work for a week the next morning.
Fair enough, but why will you be waiting until June (I think you said) to tell her, if you are only away for a week? Believe me, if you sprung this on me I'd not want to see your face until I had processed it. It's easier to think without the 'trigger' being right there. And you're not out of touch while away, as you have just demonstrated, she would be able to consider what she wanted to say to you before texting/emailing /phoning. Your way is not the only way, you know. Having had a few 'difficult' conversations, I have found I had better considered questions when not stood right in front of OH. And also thought of more to ask.

@fritzdonovan I said I had a 'manic May' I'm away this week, part of next week, all the week after and most of the week after that. June it is.

Good luck then wilf, don't really know why you came on here asking for advice if you are going to call it 'garbage' and 'a joke' when it conflicts with your opinion though. Just an extension of the personality which got you into this situation in the first place, I guess.

Ah fuck it, its not worth it is it? I'll try one more time then I'm out, as it's a waste of time. I don't know why you really posted (except to get adoring women saying "poor you, she deserves it"?)

But you're evading how you've managed to spend such a long, long deeply amazingly connected relationship avoiding any basic talk of sex or relationship needs.

I have to ask, do you even have a real sister? (And what's the difference between sister-sister and brother-sister in your opinion too?)

Because I have brothers and what you're describing doesn't sound sibling-like to me. Brother-sister relationships aren't these emotionless "deep innate connections" where you're left unable to communicate on issues or laugh together or argue on things bothering you.

Overall - it just sounds like some imaginary, idealised bullshit, much like your affair and fantasies. You sound completely incapable of maintaining a real relationship. Maybe that's why you went for this relationship, for reasons like Fell has outlined, who knows.

One thing's for sure, you've characterised your wife as an emotionless unfeeling robot, who doesn't give a shiny shit about you and didn't realise you were ever unhappy - now you're saying she has ASD. So why wouldn't you just spell it logically and unemotionally out to her? My post above was heavily sarcastic because of course you wouldn't. I wonder how much of your characterisation is remotely accurate. You don't know her and you've obviously not tried if you've never once asked her about these things.

@felloutofbed2wice 'BUT he was fucked up ....Dad had abandoned him and his very young teenage mother early on' well isn't that what I would be doing and precisely what I want to avoid? It is precisely this that I am struggling with

alonsypot phew, I was beginning to think it was just me who didn't want to give him a pat on the head for being 'honest'...

@fritzdonovan thanks, good bye

@alonsypot we've had many many bust ups over the years some of which have ended up on the subject of lack of sex. I do not think she knows how to deal with the subject. She finds it awkward, embarrassing an difficult to deal with. On the basis of that you'd have me pack my bags and leave? How shallow a person do you think I am?

No I don't have a sister but I can't find any other way of describing the relationship between us

Goodbye? I'm hurt, OP.

5Wilf5 I also have a brother (with whom I have a brother-sister relationship, obviously) and we laugh and are emotionally connected. What you are describing with your wife is not a deeply emotionally bonded relationship I can relate to. My sibling relationships are - for wont of a better word - "normal". This means we understand deep and tough feelings, and can "go there" even if it's uncomfortable, if it is worth it. But we laugh, we have fun, we are connected.

I don't get any of that from your posts.

Hence recommending some form of counselling - individually, and as a couple - to understand how you are relating to each other.

Having kids is tough, and stresses "normal" relationships. But yours was abnormal - dysfunctional - before you had kids. You need to explore your part in that scenario.

Leaving aside everything else - you need to explore why you married and conceived children into a relationship where you and the mother are not intimate.

we've had many many bust ups over the years some of which have ended up on the subject of lack of sex. I do not think she knows how to deal with the subject. She finds it awkward, embarrassing an difficult to deal with. On the basis of that you'd have me pack my bags and leave? How shallow a person do you think I am?

Someone who should ask their LIFE PARTNER to deal with the subject - through counselling if necessary.

However, given that you didn't do that in the many years you had to try - pre-kids, and pre-affair - then yes, you should pack your bags and leave.

Shallow people ignore problems because it's not anything to do with them...

Ok thanks @nosquirrels what you are saying does make sense

Life and love are so complicated. I feel for you both. I hope you find the happiness and love that you want and need.

Thank you for the lovely post @fortheloveofcharlotte

Calling people who don't agree with you 'haters' always makes my teeth itch. There's general all purpose hate, and there's thinking someone is being a dick about something specific. It's almost always the latter.

Relevant related point: you're the one who had the affair but you seem to think of yourself as the victim. I find that interesting.

I think there is an element of different understanding of the nature of marriage too. Isn't the old church liturgy about 'marriage being for the procreation of children'? Maybe OP and I see our marriages as being about a family unit, rather than a couple. Romantic love, very desirable, doesn't necessarily last throughout a marriage. Some couples split up as a result, some stay together but lose that element.

Caveat: I'm not condoning OP's affair and saying 'poor you'. Having an affair is not ok. DH and I have never had an affair. Our family unit meets all of our needs except this, and as a result we go without. I have worked very hard on my marriage for 25 years. I know love is an active verb, believe me.

OP's wife also needs to work on their marriage too. Not because it is her fault, but because their marriage is not working.

@strawberryshortcake40, please?

@standingupdoritanywhere I love your posts - you speak such sense

@standingupforitanywhere