Would really really appreciate some advice...

[5Wilf5]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice if possible please. I apologise in advance if this is a long post but I need to get my feelings out.

I am a 41 year old guy, been with my wife since age of 22 - married for 10 years. 2 gorgeous children aged 5 and 3.

Ever since we got together the physical side of our relationship has been poor, and that's being polite. I estimate we have had sex less than 20 times in 20 years, and that takes in the times it took to conceive two children. I am a physical person, I love the thought of being intimate and close with someone, my wife is the opposite - she is cold and I think she feels awkward in intimate situations. I don't blame her for this, her parents are the worst union of two people it's possible to imagine, and they ultimately got divorced after 35 years of marriage.

Any form of closeness between us over the years has been virtually absent, very limited holding hands, hugging, no cuddling up on the sofa enjoying a glass of wine etc. As I sit here and write this I cant even remember the last time she smiled at me, let alone laughed.

In 2012 I started having an affair with someone we both know (shitty I know, I'm sorry). The sense of excitement for both of us was off the scale - she was in a not great relationship too, also with two kids. We were both quite measured about it at first - it was just an affair we were enjoying, we were not going to do anything to endanger our marriages, specifically our children.

Time went on and we became much much closer, after about 2 years I realised I really loved this person and, although she never told me how she felt, I know she had very strong feelings for me.

Ultimately, sadly, we split up circa August '16 due to the fact that she was terrified that if her husband found out he would go for custody of their children. So she is carrying on with her marriage for the sake of keeping her family unit together, and I respect her for that.

Just before Christmas last year guilt and sheer frustration finally got the better of me and I told my wife what had been going on between me and the other woman. For a couple of hours my wife was devastated, then seemingly returned to normal. We carry on now as if nothing had ever happened, my wife still even chats to the other woman via text and if they see each other at school. I can't get my head round that at all to be honest.

So now I am left in a situation where I am not in love with my wife, I'm not father of the year but I adore my boys, and yet I've remembered how wonderful it is to have a close relationship with somebody.

What do I do? Leave and go and live in a flat, hoping that I might meet someone and the psychological damage to my children isn't too bad? Stick with it at home, hoping things might just get better? The thought of not having a real relationship with anyone for the rest of my life makes me feel physically sick.

I'd really appreciate anyone's help, at times I've been so low and felt so trapped I've been nearly suicidal.

Thank you

I really fee l for you OP. The thought of being alone probably feels like it could be worse than staying put. But, you deserve some happiness in your life don't you? You should be with someone who loves you and wants to hold your hand, cuddle, be intimate. I know that's not the be all and end all but its clearly important to you. I'm surprised you have lasted this long to be honest.
This will be a difficult time for you, whatever you decide. Carrying on with her and perhaps having more affairs will only make matters worse because then you can see what you are missing at home.

she's just not a physical lovey dovey type person, she's quite cold and austere. But, as part of my family, I do think the world of her and respect her

So,you knew exactly what your wife was like when you married her, and let her continue on for many years thinking this was acceptable to you. You chose to admit your affair out of frustration after it was all over. What a thoroughly charming thing to do! You split up with OW a number of times because of guilt, but kept on going back for more until OW finally finished it. Sorry, but this does not indicate any 'respect' for your wife to me.

I'm with the other pp who say to leave. TBH your wife deserves more. I really don't know why you are not getting slated, as one pp put it. An ongoing affair over a number of years is pretty low behaviour.

"What do I do? Leave and go and live in a flat, hoping that I might meet someone and the psychological damage to my children isn't too bad?"

yes. It will be better in the long run, so much better. I was with someone similar - it won't get better and it's so lonely. It eats and eats away at you. Your wife is emotionally damaged and you can't 'fix' this. Your children will be fine - but not so fine growing up in a relationship model like this. Find someone else who can love you properly and your children will see this and learn that there are many types of relationships, some don't work, but some do. They are much more resilient that you realise.

Its possible that your DW would really like to make this right but doesn't know how. If her childhood so damaged her that she doesnt know how to be less inhibited then there may be a case for counselling or some kind of therapy? Tbh I do feel for her.

Of course you should separate. It's a no-brainer. Because the alternative is far, far worse (no fun, no sex). To be honest, I'm wondering whether you have a very low sex drive, as most people would have left years ago with sex only being once a year. You'd have more sex if you were single!

Counselling may be helpful for you, either singly or jointly. If nothing else it will help you talk through the logistics of splitting up once you get to that stage.

I'm not going to slate you at all, but as others have said. I can't understand why you married her knowing exactly what she was like.

Did you not have any loving relationships before her to even compare with?

What sort of relationship did your own parents have, that made you think your relationship was good enough to the point of getting married to her?

What do I do? Leave and go and live in a flat, hoping that I might meet someone and the psychological damage to my children isn't too bad?

Yes. I think you should split up with her.

What kind of example of a relationship do you want your children to grow up seeing?

The damage to them will be worse if you stay in the marriage and your children will grow up thinking it's normal to be like that towards your spouse.

They'll see how your wife treats you in regards to lack of affection and coldness and think that's how they should be treated by a future partner.

As you know (from your wife's upbringing), parents are key in what their children become in life.

Stick with it at home, hoping things get better.

Think rationally. Why would they get better after 20 years?

Can I ask if your wife likes to receive affection?

Is she cold towards other people too? Friends, colleagues and family?

It doesn't sound like she's cold to your sons. Perhaps she's only like this in your relationship.

Maybe she's doing it to protect herself from getting hurt and that's why your affair didn't bother her. Because she'd built a wall around herself just in case.

Added to this... She probably expected or suspected it anyway.

I take it the OW doesn't know you confessed?

You deserve better than this. I Don't waste your life in a relationship with no affection.

It almost sound like she just wants you there to be a family unit, regardless of whether or not you're happy. It's about presenting an image of being a happy family.

You only get one life and you can take steps to meet someone if you really want to.

What do I do? Leave and go and live in a flat, hoping that I might meet someone and the psychological damage to my children isn't too bad?
Yes. You said you're like brother and sister, and that's not a marriage. Why should you live the rest of your life celebate and affectionless?!

Stick with it at home, hoping things might just get better?
Your wife never wants physical affection and has only wanted sex with you on average once per year. She has always been like this so what make you think she will change now? It obviously works for her. What did she say when you discussed your feelings regarding the lack of sex and affection? If you've not discussed it then you should because unless you know the real reasons there is no way anything will change. Could you stay together but have an open relationship (not that I think that's the way to go as emotionally it could turn very messy indeed, and perhaps more so for you than her)?

Re Somerville's post - to be clear my oldest was born in 2011,

And you then began an affair in 2012. When there was a 1ish year old at home - and instead you prioritised time with the OW. You seem to think you're a decent father but you don't sound like you are to me.

Younger boy was conceived (first time try) during one of the episodes I had split up from OW for a few months due to my feelings of guilt.

And at that stage you hadn't told your wife. So you had unprotected sex with her when she believed you were in an exclusive relationship with her. Whether or not you used condoms every single time with the OW, it does not 100% protect from all STD's, and you should have been honest with your wife. You also shouldn't have brought another child into the shit-show of your deceit, nor gone back to the OW once you had.

In no way am I saying I was doing the right thing,

Indeed...

I am just trying to give the full picture. During my on and off 3.5 year affair my guilt trips and subsequent splitting up from her happened about four times and is probably a large part of the reason why she finally dumped me in order to stay with her family.

You know what? You never got the guts to end it properly with OW - you just messed her around until she did it. Now you've told your wife about the affair, I reckon hoping that she'd do the dirty work for you and end the marriage. She hasn't, and you're still too gutless to end it yourself.

Sort this shit show out by ending your marriage, paying maintenance and sharing all responsibilities for your DC, and get counselling to help you to grow up a bit before you enter another relationship.

Was 2012 your first affair /indiscretion?

Thanks to all for the responses, some of which are a bit hard to read but there's a lot of truth being said. Some replies:

1. I married her despite the physical problems because my previous relationship was the polar opposite. Incredibly physical to the point of being violent - we literally HATED each other but, my God, those feelings transferred themselves to the bedroom and the sex was off the scale. My wife and I were so close (too close?) as two people and I felt this was much more important than a lack of physical stuff. I never realised you could actually have both.
2. The thought of being alone does feel more scary than staying put and resigning myself to celibacy and this is why I haven't been able to move out yet. Quite simply I lose my kids. My wife is very reasonable and access would be no issue but I know I would miss all the little things, like reading a story at bedtime. This hurts.
3. She does only want me so we have a family. If I moved out I don't think she would miss me herself at all, she'd miss a complete family and she would worry about the boys.
4. Re sex and the affair I had sex with my wife ONCE during the entire 3.5 year affair with the OW. Shoot me if you like but I don't feel too bad about that.
5. I have discussed with my wife the lack of sex many many times over the years and most recently at Christmas. I even asked her if she liked men or not. I can only believe she has very low sex drive or is asexual.
6. Yes I split up with OW a few times because of guilt. Why is that so bad? I used to drop off my older boy at school thinking 'hey I'm shagging that woman over there!'' what a shitty thing to do, of course I felt guilty. To be honest I was always more surprised at her that she had seemingly no feelings of guilt whatsoever.
7. Does my wife like to receive affection? Honestly I can't remember. The whole sex/physical thing has become such an elephant in the room for us over so many years I have forgotten. I have to say probably not, she's cold, there's no getting around that.
8. It is absolutely right that my wife would quite possibly like to make this right but doesn't know how. However I feel the relationship is now so rotten and we have said so many bad things to each other over the years I genuinely wonder if there is any way back for us. I think I know the answer. On the flip side we have been out in north Wales today, we (i.e. Our family unit) have had a lovely time on the beach with friends. My wife and I have been nice to each other, we've had a great time with the kids WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would chuck all that away and cause a great deal of pain to everyone in the process? I feel a good way from the depths of despair I felt at Christmas but equally I wonder how long before those feelings come back to haunt me.
9. She's not cold with the boys at all, quite the opposite, in fact I have to tell her to stop carrying the three year old about lol :)

10. 'Paying maintenance' - don't even go there, I'd give my life for those boys, let alone my pay cheque.

you had sex once and got your wife pregnant! Great sperm!

Why do you actually want from this thread?

Was 2012 my first affair? Yes.

I guess I want to know whether I should stay in an unhappy relationship but in a nice family or chuck everything so I can get my oats a couple of times a week and sit next to someone on a sofa.

You should leave. You are setting a poor example of a relationship to your children. And after describing your previous relationship you should also have some counselling to address what a healthy relationship actually looks like.

To be honest I don't think there is anything wrong if your wife isn't particularly physical and has always been like this, but clearly it isn't what you want or suits you now , so you either decide you can live with it, you live with it till your children are older or you get out now and see them right and seek a more physical relationship

Or.. thinking about it from a different point of view, to an average person just how important is sex in a relationship where there's a family? After 5 years? After 10 years?

There must be a million people in my position, I guess my difference is my relationship has never been about sex whereas - I think - sex typically drops off for a lot of people after children.

My ex OW would tell you she does have a healthy relationship with her husband. I know she just lies there while he gets on with it. Is that really so different to my situation?

'You should leave. You are setting a poor example of a relationship to your children.'

This is what I am most worried about and ultimately why I think I probably will leave. I suspect they actually pick up on more than I hope they do, specifically distance between their mum and dad.

Sex typically drips off for couples. You kept having sex though... with a mistress.

Have you sought her forgiveness? Have you shown her you have changed? Can she even begin to trust you again?

If not through affection, how does she feel loved? Does she appreciate your help with things or your time, small gestures that show you have thought of her and value her and who she is in your family? Do you search out ways to bring her happiness? Do you tell her she looks great, or that you are grateful for the things she does? Does she appreciate gifts? Do you give her time off for herself? Have you run her a bath or prepared her breakfast?

Sounds to me that for whatever reason she has shut down a whole part of her life, she has her head down getting on with what she needs to do, takes care of kids, pours hereslf into them, and leaves you to get on with it. Perhaps start small and start afresh, show her you will fight for her. Re-build her confidence. Ask around and find a counsellor you could see individually and together. If the way she behaves is a mixture of her parents and her life experiences, topped off most recently with your betrayal then it will take some considerable time, effort, love and work to change but what if your commitment is what she needs to see before she can find joy in her marriage too?

Op watch the film Fireproof.

I would leave if you're both not in love with each other anymore otherwise you could try to seek treatment.

Argh yes ok - I cant deny it although me and OW didn't actually have sex that much, we didn't have much opportunity.

We probably had sex 15 times in 3.5 years

@treadsoftly thanks very much that's a really useful comment and I think you're right on every count tbh

Re sex and the affair I had sex with my wife ONCE during the entire 3.5 year affair with the OW. Shoot me if you like but I don't feel too bad about that.

Doesn't sound like you tried very hard with your wife. I've heard it said before that if your partner isn't that interested in sex, they're not getting what they need from it - have you ever tried to fix this? Because now admitting you didn't do it very much with OW suggests the actual sex wasn't anything to write home about. So why did you really keep the affair going?

You still don't sound remorseful in the slightest. Your idea of what a healthy adult relationship and family responsibilities are sound quite selfish and shallow. I think you would benefit from fixing and improving your relationship with your wife and understanding mature behaviour through counselling. Although you apparently haven't taken any previous advice on board, so probably won't change now either.