Am I mad to end my marriage because he won't put the bins out?

[toastandjamplease]

Hi all,

Namechanged to protect the innocent! Apologies that I think this will be a long one but don’t want to dripfeed! I have been married just over 20 years. We have 3 DCs, all high-school age. We both work FT, although my husband works much longer hours than me with lots of travel. My OH does most of the taxi-ing on weekends, taking kids to football on Saturday mornings etc. He also cooks on the weekend and takes care of everything IT-related. We have a cleaner who keeps the house just about under control.

However, everything else is done by me. That is, all the school runs, after school activities, laundry, shopping, most of the cooking, DIY, day-to-day tidying etc. I have always done more than him but things have fallen even more on me as his job has involved more and more travel. He is supposed to do the laundry when he is here but does maybe 1 load in 10 and only when I ask him to put the wash on.

We recently moved house, which has brought things to a head. It is not massive but has a large garden and it quite remote. It was very much my choice and I cannot tell you how much I love where we live now. But it is too much for me to do all the above single-handed. I have told my husband (repeatedly) that I cannot do this any more. I work 40 hours a week on top of doing pretty much everything around the house and garden and I am exhausted. More than anything, it is not just the practical side of this but the emotional. That is, I feel like though I am constantly looking out for everyone yet there is never anyone there to look out for me. If I forget to do something, it just won't get done.

At Christmas, I told him that I couldn't do this anymore and unless he started showing a bit more support then I would be asking for a divorce. I gave him a couple of very clear examples of what I mean. First, he has never changed the beds in 20 years of marriage. I told him that makes me feel like he takes it for granted it’s my job and is demeaning. Second, in the 3 years we have lived here, he has never put the rubbish out – it seems like even the laziest husbands talked about on here “do the bins” and he won’t even do that. Last week, I forgot to put the bins out so (of course) the rubbish didn't get collected. I am so sick of being in charge of practically bloody everything. At Christmas, I told him that these things are like little snapshots of how everything is left to me. In effect I was giving him a couple of very simple things he could do to show that he was listening to me. But, since then, he hasn’t taken the rubbish out once or changed a sheet.

My husband works very hard, he earns a lot more than I do, and he is a very generous person. We bought this house because it was what I wanted, it is not his thing at all but he wanted me to be happy. He is brilliant in a crisis. We agree almost entirely on priorities re. the children and I would say that he is a great father, but I know that part of being a great parent is setting a good example to your children and I think we are both setting a poor example – him by being lazy around the house and me by being a martyr about all things domestic!

Given how I have laid out my stall, I feel like he is giving me no choice but to tell him this is over. But it feels like such a drastic step. In particular, it will mean selling the house and probably moving much closer to the kids’ school. The kids will be fine with the move (I think) as they will be nearer friends etc. but will be heartbroken about us splitting up. In practice, he spends half the year away anyway so I’m hoping in practical terms I can keep things on an even keel for them. I feel so awful about the whole thing but it’s like he’s given me no choice - I have told him how I feel and he has demonstrated time and again that he will not value what I do around the place or help in any of the ways I have asked him to. Since we moved house, the argument has almost moved beyond what is fair to what is possible – I just cannot do it anymore.

So, I guess I am looking for reassurance on a few things. I am terrified we’ll all end up worse off in every way and it will all be my fault as I’ve allowed this situation to develop but am suddenly saying no more! The questions I keep turning over in my head are these:

• Am I being reasonable to divorce my husband because he won’t put the bins out (and take on other things around the house)?
• Will the kids understand why these things are such a big deal or will they blame me?
• Will I get over selling this lovely house to move somewhere cheaper and more practical? I can hardly bear to think about it but it will have to be done.

Any thoughts would be welcome. I haven’t spoken to a soul about this is RL and am terrified of what I think I’m about to do... Thank you!

If you work 40 hours a week and he works more hours than you and also travels a lot plus drives the DCs around at the weekends and does the weekend cooking when would you think he would have time to change beds and take the bins out or do the laundry? And what about when he is away? What would happen then?

Your DCs are old enough to change their own beds. So that presumably leaves yours. If you increase your Cleaner's hours she could do that.

Your DCs are also old enough to have a couple of other chores each. One of them could be responsible for bins.

I think a family meeting and a list of things that need doing and a brain storming session as to who does what and ways to simplify your lives would be useful.

I got fed up of the changing beds thing too. Wrestling with vast double duvet covers and sheets is not my idea of fun. Nor is nagging another adult to accept that sheets need changing more than just when his mum is coming over.

I bought an extra single bed. Clean sheets whenever I want them, and he can wrestle with the double sheets all on his own (though I do help if I'm feeling either kind, or frisky...). If you have space, that might be less drastic than full-on divorce.

So, it's not a massive house, you have a cleaner, a gardener and 3 DC old enough to pitch in, and your DH does help at weekends when he's home..... perhaps you could give some examples of what you feel are all these things not getting done and bringing you to your knees? I'm not trying to be snarky, it's just I really don't get it. And maybe your DH doesn't either.

It's not about the bins really. It's about the fact that another human being who is meant to love and respect you can't change their behaviour in the smallest way to help you. By not putting the bins out he is basically saying you're not worth his time and effort. I'm married 20 years and have my own bins/dishwasher issues. It's not why we are separating but it is a symptom of a larger issue.

I know how you feel OP. My do has never taken the bins down and never cleaned the bathroom. He works full time and earns up to 4 times what I do. I work part time but looking to increase with DD going to high school.
It's difficult. In a sense you could say, it's ok because he earns more, travels etc. But you know in your heart as I do that he is demeaning you and leaving I get you to do the dull stuff, the dirty stuff because he doesn't fancy it and he knows it'll get done. It's what it says about what he thinks you are.
You're not in danger so you don't need to rush off. You either leave for self respect and face reality of single parent life or you make a pragmatic decision to suck it up for the nice house etc.
It's so worth thinking about whether you like each other's company. DP and I rub along well, same sense of humour etc. So it doesn't make it easy for me to split.

Well Toastandjam, I feel for you and would be bloody furious if I were in your shoes, and would also be very resentful!
It sounds as though your dh feels entitled to pick and choose the bits he does and doesn't take any responsibility for actually managing all the tasks and organisation of the children and their hobbies, let alone carrying out a good share of doing the chores and other tasks. His commitment to family life is lacking. You sound as though you want you and your husband to be an effective team, and that most certainly isn't happening at the moment.
I get that he works long hours away, but that doesn't excuse him joining in the mundane chores that need doing, when he is around.
You work long hours too- when he's away you have no choice about to do it all the chores, but he shouldn't expect you to do it all when he's actually there.
I think it's difficult to make teenagers do regular chores. I agree that they should, but in reality they usually need a huge amount of nagging to do it, which ends up putting more stress on you than it's worth sometimes.Also, to be fair, they seem to have huge amounts of homework and loads of GCSE and Alevels is certainly not a walk in the park! Their chores need to be seen to be reasonable.
I think you need to make a huge spread sheet of all the tasks and chores, and 'areas of responsibility' that need doing, on a daily, weekly and termly basis' (I'd be tempted to go away to a hotel on my own to do this, telling them what you're planning, so they realise it's a big deal). Then sit down with your husband to discuss what is a 'fair' division of labour. Use a cleaner and a gardener to pick up some of the areas of slack. Then, with your dh on board with an agreed plan, tell the kids together how the household expectations are going to change. MAke sure you review it weekly, and that DH takes joint responsibility for owning and implementing the plan.
Think about whether a few hours set aside (on a friday night? Before ordering a take away?) for everyone to pitch in, including husband, to get the bulk of things done together. Make everyone responsible for their own washing and ironing (different wash days for each?) TAke turns with your dh to do the taxi ing around with the kids on a saturday- it can be fun hanging around waiting for them in a cafe with an ipad etc!
But most of all, try and build in some quality fun time for you and DH -with and without the kids, as your current lifestyle sounds pure drudgery to me with no let up on the horizon. I think it's this aspect that's leading you to thoughts of divorce, and that most needs your urgent attention

On subject of bins, the black bin only gets emptied every 3 weeks in our area. I forgot last month and was raging. Had to take all the bags and and take them to the tip. Really doesn't make you feel warm to the person who could have helped.

Good grief. It's like using a cannon to kill a chicken.

Good point chillyegg on page 1

IMO some people – men and women – are just rubbish at this stuff.

Well possibly but by and large women have to shape up or endure endless criticism and are expected to do. Men are too often indulged/tolerated/allowed to pick the few chores they are willing to do, often by the women around them. We can all be guilt of doing this, its a hard form of socialisation to resist.

Still wondering if anyone can explain to me why traveling for work means he can't help with house stuff. Its not my experience. I'm also astonished at people insisting he works longer hours when the OP holds down a full time paid job and the full time house job, but presumably decades of feminism still haven't gotten the message across that household work and management is an actual job.

Not read past page one.

Set up a schedule and get everyone involved. The teens are bloody old enough to do a big chunk of housework and gardening. They can certainly make their own beds and put the bins out. My eldest has been putting the bins out since he was 9 and he and my next two (9 and 11) can make their beds. They also Hoover, dust and even my 9 year old has mopped the floor a few times. They've all made their lunch and will sometimes make their packed lunches.

I do most of it because I'm a sahm but they all pull their weight.

Woah - loads more replies, thank you!

Just to respond to a couple of things that people seem to think I am being evasive on or unrealistic over :) My children make their own beds and open curtains in the morning. I've tried to get them to take it turns to cook a meal each week, which works if I remind them numerous times and provide ingredients for said meal but they do at least do something in the kitchen. DS feeds the dog. They all put their clothes in the wash basket more or less and will put their clothes away I refuse to squeeze any more into their Ikea tubs of clean clothes! They also walk the dog uncomplainingly and change the litter tray if I ask.

My OH does not do all the cooking on weekend. I do 90 percent of the cooking whether he is here or not. He makes a plate of pasta on a Sunday night. Appreciate this is more than some but it is hardly a 50/50 split!

Likewise, he usually takes DCs to football Sat and Sun morning although I do this sometimes if he is having a lie-in. I tend to do any afternoon activities especially parties as he doesn't like to deal with other parents. Fair enough but just wanted to be clear that as with the cooking, it is not that I am sat around painting my nails while he does all the work!

Someone asked about leisure time. Once matches are over etc. at midday he tends to watch the footie etc. all afternoon while I am either taking kids somewhere or else doing the garden or the multiple DIY-type things that seem to pile up.

During the week, if he is home, I finish work at 5 then usually have somewhere to take someone til 7 or 8. He gets up late, works 12-9 then watches tv or similar, while I am usually doing stuff around the house.

Someone asked up-thread how much there can be to do if we have a cleaner. She does 4 hours a week so there is still laundry, ironing (kept to a minimum!), tidying up, shopping etc. I don't know what it is but it seems to take a lot of time!

And I really don't have especially high standards. The whole thing about sheet-changing seems to have taken on a life of its own. It's not that I insist on changing the sheets every week and my OH thinks it should be once a month. The sheets are changed once a fortnight or whenever I get round to it. He has never offered to do it and has never changed the sheets when I have asked him to. I honestly think it is clearly a case of him being a lazy arse rather than me being a high-maintenance harridan.

Just wanted to come back on a few things people said I hadn't commented on so you didn't think I was ignoring you.

Thank you again!!!

Still wondering if anyone can explain to me why traveling for work means he can't help with house stuff

I guess if he's not physically in the house then he can't do it? My DH works away usually 2-3 nights a week, which means on those nights I obviously have to do everything.

Massive over reaction to get divorced over this , increase the cleaners hours and get her to do the beds, get a handyman to do some jobs , get the dc on a rota to do bins / lawn etc even if you pay them to do it and get an ironing service to do all the ironing - sorted .

I guess if he's not physically in the house then he can't do it? My DH works away usually 2-3 nights a week, which means on those nights I obviously have to do everything.

I deeply disagree with this idea that because someone is traveling for work they can contribute nothing to the running of the house. True he can't take out the bins on those nights but he absolutely could help with the innumerable house hold management grinding tasks which don't require physical presence (including reminding kids to do chores and homework).

Doing just a few of those does at least keep the traveler closer to the family and the home based partner feels less like a single parent and more appreciated.

How much diy and gardening is there to do? What's wrong with him watching TV on the weekend instead of doing diy.

It sounds like you expect things to be done your way or he's being selfish.

I think I'd leave for a month. Your kids are old enough to cope as is he. I'd give him very short notice and book my self a short term let of a month. Go home for a weekend after 2 weeks. See how it's going. You'll all have a better idea of how you feel after that.

It is about equal division of household tasks while you are both at home. It doesn't sound like you get to laze around doing nothing, so I don't know why he gets that pass just because he's at work longer. You are both filling your time.

An awful lot of men view domestic things - house/children, as their wife's territory, as if she is the only one who lives in the house and like she impregnated herself. If you feel he is doing less than he should then he is! We can say "Wow, he makes tea on a Saturday, what a gem, no-one makes tea for me on a Saturday!" and set the bar that low, but if you're unhappy you're unhappy. You shouldn't minimize that.

Your DC are absolutely not doing enough. Picking up their own clothes, opening the curtains and feeding the dog would be fine if they were 5 or 6, but they are teens! Get your DC to pull their weight then see if you still want a divorce.

At 13, it was my job to set the table for meals, load and unload the dishwasher, hang out the washing and feed the dog (to be fair it was my dog so not a family chore per she). One brother mowed the lawn once a week and washed my paand the other hoovered and mopped the floors twice a week, and my sister did all the by hand washing up and gathered up all the laundry and put it on. Can your DC not do some of this?

And washed my parents' cars, that should say!

I have 4 kids and my cleaner works 8 hours a week. She does all the ironing. Comes 2x week. We also have garden help.

My kids do a lot more than yours, despite being out of the house 7-7 and being 8,11,11 & 12.

Dh does a lot more than yours too. He also does 7-7, and does an hours worth of chores in the evening and does bed time.

I do taxiing and am the main earner with much shorter hours and work from home. I do 90% of cooking, shopping etc. I do 70 % of home admin. He deals with most workmen.

Our set up feels fair. Yours would piss me off.

*Blimey, sorry but this sounds like a first world problem to me. You have 3 kids capable of helping out, cleaners, a gardener, a hard working husband with a large income and your dream house..... a lot of people would kill to have this sort of "problem"!

Stick a rota on the fridge for the kids, if they don't do it then it doesn't get done, simple. Or try a rota style app if the kids have phones? It's time for you to delegate!*

^ This!

I deeply disagree with this idea that because someone is traveling for work they can contribute nothing to the running of the house. True he can't take out the bins on those nights but he absolutely could help with the innumerable house hold management grinding tasks which don't require physical presence (including reminding kids to do chores and homework)

I didn't say they have to contribute nothing. My DH contributes loads, he does all the cooking when he's there and we split most other jobs. I just meant that on the nights he's not there I'm obviously the one cooking, putting the bins out if it falls on bin night, putting the kids to bed (mine are toddlers), cleaning up after dinner, stacking the dishwasher etc. Because he's not there to do it. Of course I didn't mean that him working away three nights a week absolves him of all responsibility for anything ever, that would be ridiculous.

Perhaps by moving to a remote location, your dream home has become more of a burden.
My opinion is that by secondary, most teenagers are fully able to get themselves to their own myriad of activites. I suspect living where you do had stopped this to a great extent.

I also think that from what you have said, your kids actually do little to help. Making a bed in the morning is nothing. Get one of them to take responsibility for the bins. They have always seen you do everything so they expect you always will.

Erm as a single parent yabu. If you got divorced youd be doing it all any way by your self but struggling emotionally and financially

This. I do 99.999% of the work in my household so I don't see that divorcing him is going to help you at all!

TBH, your children need to step up given they appear to be doing very little.

One of the best things I did was to teach my DSs how to iron their school shirts for example. Originally it was to repay lost travel cards at £1 per shirt but I've not ironed a school shirt since.

I don't make my children do nearly enough now I think of it.