Am I mad to end my marriage because he won't put the bins out?

[toastandjamplease]

Hi all,

Namechanged to protect the innocent! Apologies that I think this will be a long one but don’t want to dripfeed! I have been married just over 20 years. We have 3 DCs, all high-school age. We both work FT, although my husband works much longer hours than me with lots of travel. My OH does most of the taxi-ing on weekends, taking kids to football on Saturday mornings etc. He also cooks on the weekend and takes care of everything IT-related. We have a cleaner who keeps the house just about under control.

However, everything else is done by me. That is, all the school runs, after school activities, laundry, shopping, most of the cooking, DIY, day-to-day tidying etc. I have always done more than him but things have fallen even more on me as his job has involved more and more travel. He is supposed to do the laundry when he is here but does maybe 1 load in 10 and only when I ask him to put the wash on.

We recently moved house, which has brought things to a head. It is not massive but has a large garden and it quite remote. It was very much my choice and I cannot tell you how much I love where we live now. But it is too much for me to do all the above single-handed. I have told my husband (repeatedly) that I cannot do this any more. I work 40 hours a week on top of doing pretty much everything around the house and garden and I am exhausted. More than anything, it is not just the practical side of this but the emotional. That is, I feel like though I am constantly looking out for everyone yet there is never anyone there to look out for me. If I forget to do something, it just won't get done.

At Christmas, I told him that I couldn't do this anymore and unless he started showing a bit more support then I would be asking for a divorce. I gave him a couple of very clear examples of what I mean. First, he has never changed the beds in 20 years of marriage. I told him that makes me feel like he takes it for granted it’s my job and is demeaning. Second, in the 3 years we have lived here, he has never put the rubbish out – it seems like even the laziest husbands talked about on here “do the bins” and he won’t even do that. Last week, I forgot to put the bins out so (of course) the rubbish didn't get collected. I am so sick of being in charge of practically bloody everything. At Christmas, I told him that these things are like little snapshots of how everything is left to me. In effect I was giving him a couple of very simple things he could do to show that he was listening to me. But, since then, he hasn’t taken the rubbish out once or changed a sheet.

My husband works very hard, he earns a lot more than I do, and he is a very generous person. We bought this house because it was what I wanted, it is not his thing at all but he wanted me to be happy. He is brilliant in a crisis. We agree almost entirely on priorities re. the children and I would say that he is a great father, but I know that part of being a great parent is setting a good example to your children and I think we are both setting a poor example – him by being lazy around the house and me by being a martyr about all things domestic!

Given how I have laid out my stall, I feel like he is giving me no choice but to tell him this is over. But it feels like such a drastic step. In particular, it will mean selling the house and probably moving much closer to the kids’ school. The kids will be fine with the move (I think) as they will be nearer friends etc. but will be heartbroken about us splitting up. In practice, he spends half the year away anyway so I’m hoping in practical terms I can keep things on an even keel for them. I feel so awful about the whole thing but it’s like he’s given me no choice - I have told him how I feel and he has demonstrated time and again that he will not value what I do around the place or help in any of the ways I have asked him to. Since we moved house, the argument has almost moved beyond what is fair to what is possible – I just cannot do it anymore.

So, I guess I am looking for reassurance on a few things. I am terrified we’ll all end up worse off in every way and it will all be my fault as I’ve allowed this situation to develop but am suddenly saying no more! The questions I keep turning over in my head are these:

• Am I being reasonable to divorce my husband because he won’t put the bins out (and take on other things around the house)?
• Will the kids understand why these things are such a big deal or will they blame me?
• Will I get over selling this lovely house to move somewhere cheaper and more practical? I can hardly bear to think about it but it will have to be done.

Any thoughts would be welcome. I haven’t spoken to a soul about this is RL and am terrified of what I think I’m about to do... Thank you!

I feel for you. My dh works long hours as I don't work as we've got three kids and two have disabilities. He does the odd bit at the weekend like wash up but doesn't clean bathrooms etc. I feel like all the crap jobs get left to me and I don't mind doing whilst I'm around but it feels like the kids are solely left to me. You end up feeling resentful and taken for granted and lets be honest who actually wants to clean a toilet?! It isn't fun. I do think a lot of me are helpful but a lot are lazy and just don't see it. My dh never lived alone and aside from working did very little in the house his mother did it all. My dad was the same.

First, kids need to help. Secondly your dh needs to maximise what he does with his time when he's around and you need a list of jobs then need to be done then set aside time together of a weekend to do them.

My kids are still young so we need to be a bit more hands on.

My parents moved to their dream house in the country when I was a teenager- and it was a massive pain in the arse! Everywhere I wanted to go was either not on a bus route or the buses stopped at 7pm. If you are spending two hours + every evening driving around- this is probably why.

Blimey your kids do nothing

Being tidy (which is basically all you ask) isn't a chore, it's basic manners.

My dd does her own ironing, the dishwasher, her bathroom and bedroom, feed the animals when asked, cooks when asked. I expect her to do these without nagging. She does homework at school without prompting and works 7 days a week on a paper round.

If I want more from her I'll pay her.

Of course I didn't mean that him working away three nights a week absolves him of all responsibility for anything ever, that would be ridiculous.

Fair enough, sorry. However this is exactly what others seem to suggest and I see it a lot on these threads - that a traveling DH must be absolved from all household duties.

I'm the traveler in our family (albeit my kids are grown now) and I've always still done the household management/non physical tasks whilst traveling. I see a lot of traveling women doing this as well.

My male-parent colleagues mostly have a wife at home picking up the slack, remembering the birthdays, chasing the homework etc. (and putting their own careers on hold).

No reason why the men couldn't do more household stuff when they are away - they don't work longer hours than I do and they are generally saving commute time if they are doing the Mon-Thurs routine. I note they do mostly find time to go to the gym, cinema, socialise with colleagues mid week.

It often strikes me in these threads that the women posting about having to manage 100% of the wife work whilst DH picks and chooses a few tasks at the weekend could be my colleagues' wives.

Maybe, as he is away so often, he feels a bit like a visitor in his own home? Stuff gets done, whether he is or isn't there. Perhaps he doesn't like to interfere with how things are done?
I can remember feeling a bit like that when we had a bit of a role reversal for a while...DH became a househusband, looking after the children and I was working full-time. When I got home, everything was already done, other than for me to then spend some time with the kids and bath them and put them to bed. I also did the washing up from our evening meal.d

There have been periods over the years with role reversals, and when it was my turn to be stay at home mum, I did the lion's share of work which also includes me doing all the driving as DH doesn't drive.
Now, with kids almost all gone, we both work full time, and we do what we can. I wouldn't say it's 50/50, I sometimes feel resentful if I've finished work, gone shopping, come home and put it all away, then made tea AND washed up, but he does things that I don't do, like the garden, diy, and cleaning the bathroom and toilet. He is Mr Tidy and I'm not ! ( probably our biggest source of rows). Doesn't make us feel like divorcing though. We've been together long enough, we know neither is perfect.I don't think it's got anything to do with one or other of us ' not caring enough'.d
DH is the one who remembers about putting the bins out...I always forget!

Your kids are horrifically lazy. When i was growing up if i wanted to do what i wanted to do with my time id have to do at least a chore first. Not just picking up my own bloody laundry. We would be putting the laundry in the wash and hanging it out. My siblings and i took turns doing the ironing, sorting the socks, hoovering, dusting AND we did all the clearing up after dinner every night. I don't think that was excessive either. Perhaps you should look at why your children think it's reasonable to let you pick up all the chores before you get on your husbands case about it.

No reason why the men couldn't do more household stuff when they are away - they don't work longer hours than I do and they are generally saving commute time if they are doing the Mon-Thurs routine. I note they do mostly find time to go to the gym, cinema, socialise with colleagues mid week

That is true. Mine does all houseful admin and bills/finances while he's away as he's generally near a computer whereas I'm wrestling 2 toddlers.

I sympathise. It's about the attitude and not the bins. I think teamwork at home is a fine balance and there is no single recipe but it has to feel equitable between the two or resentment creeps in.

I don't really understand what he says in response to your discussing him doing more. Does he acknowledge he needs to do more but fail to do it? Does he think it's fair as things stand?

There are practical things to do to help - up your cleaners hours so she does some sheets and laundry, make sure your children contribute.

But fundamentally it seems you need to sort things with your husband so you are not the default everything. If it were me I would jointly discuss and try to agree spheres of responsibility between you rather than delegation by you. Then let him get on with it (or not).

My DH and I are still working things out on this front. We share cooking and always have done and take care of different house related admin in a fairly even way. but at one point I was doing most 'domestic' things (and probably still do more than him (emptying / reloading dishwashers etc, laundry)) and getting up almost every morning with the children (which I was fine with provided I got down time later in the day). But he has decided he wants to make sure he does half (not sure what the epiphany moment was - I think he felt partly it was unfair, partly morally disadvantaged, and partly saw the odd flash of resentment which he knew he as not good for the marriage).

I do sometimes point things out like that I empty the dishwasher every morning at the same time as I give the children breakfast before he realises and then does the same thing when he does breakfast. But I avoid 'nagging' or instructing and there's now no resentment because he wants to be more equal and doesn't think I should be default everything. He takes pride in our being a team. That said I sometimes get the feeling he expects to be thanked for stuff which I do every day with being thanked 🤔.

I do think in some men there is an ingrained default about 'wifework'. Certainly my DH grew up in a household which was pretty traditional to the extent his father did no domestic stuff at all other than gardening and bills - even cooking. I remember being shocked that even as young adults the default was to leave the table to the mother to clear after dinner 😨. Can take a while to recalibrate.

I'm not sure comparisons to being a single mother is helpful. Presumably the issue is less how much she is doing than it it is being shared with her partner.

Please don't cut your working hours just to pick up your husband's chores.

Mine does all houseful admin and bills/finances while he's away as he's generally near a computer whereas I'm wrestling 2 toddlers.

Yes quite. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather get to my own bed at night and eat my own food - traveling a lot for work can be tough. However the fact is I can get a load of household stuff sorted out in a couple of uninterrupted hours whilst watching random drivel on the hotel TV. I also do any family calls/chasing etc, event planning type stuff.

I really struggle with 'X can't do anything and must be cosseted because he travels for work and does long hours' when from observation some of those long evening hours are socialising and down time which the home based person rarely gets. In rare moments of honesty (after a couple of drinks) some of them will admit to quite liking regular out of town roles because it gives them a break from the bedtime routine

Definitely get your dc to do more.My youngest dc does the bins! It will also break the cycle especially if your dc are boys.

Children need to start taking responsibility as it doesn't just switch on when they get married.I suspect your dh is of the generation where his mum did everything and it just doesn't occur to him to step up.

I have a wonderful brother and his wife was complaining that he doesn't take much domestic responsibility.He is trying but feels it's a habit he has to develop and like all behaviours need consistency to develop.He's absolutely one of the good guys but never had to do housework so just doesn't see what needs to be done.

I also think you should only do what you can do, don't be a martyr and pick up jobs when shattered.If it's too much then stop.

Prioritise the important stuff and leave other things..Your family will fill the void if you just let go.

You will feel happier as a result.

Your kids are horrifically lazy

No, they are underused.

4 hours cleaning a week for a family with 3 kids is nowhere near enough. We have 11 hours a week with two children. I'd say you need at least 12 hours.

My cleaner does all the cleaning, bed changing and all the ironing too.

I think, given your joint working hours, a house with a big garden that needs a lot of DIY is just too ambitious. The fact it's lovely is neither here nor there. Big gardens are a huge amount of work, so unless you want to fork out more money on a gardener, I'd suggest you move to a house with a much smaller low maintenance garden. Something that doesn't need so much DIY. In a town with good transport so you're not constantly ferrying your kids. They should be using public transport and getting themselves around by now

With two working parents your children need to be much more mature and independent. Have a rosta for all chores and any pets, so they don't have to be asked. They should all be doing their own washing (they need to be able to anyway as they will be going tips uni soon).

This will all make a big difference.

Then you can tackle your husband, who isn't pulling his when he's around and isn't listening to you.

His weight ^^

Who are these men who 'have to develop a habit' of housework? Are women somehow born knowing how to do it/assuming they'll be the ones to do it? Just how old do you think the OP's husband is - 150?

My 51 year old partner is perfectly capable of doing his half of the domestic stuff. What with the fact he's expected to and all.

You can divorce you husband for any reason you wish but those jobs will still need to be done. The bins will still need to be put out, the beds changed, etc with no help whatsoever. The difference in household tasks will change very little by a husband who works away a lot not being around at all and with a lot less disposable income for you to employ outside help.

Op - I also sympathise and you don't sound like a spoilt brat.

You sound like you've been backed into an overwhelming workload and unmanageable lifestyle because of the demands of your DH's job.

Would you be prepared to live on less money? If so I'd ask him to reduce his hours or look for a less demanding job and do more around the house.

If you want, or need, the money his job brings in then I'd look at the many practical solutions pp have suggested.

But I'd be really angry with his lack of response to your conversation at Christmas. No better suggestion than counselling though to try and get the seriousness of your feelings heard.

During the week, if he is home, he gets up late, works 12-9 then watches tv or similar, while I am usually doing stuff around the house.

So that's crappy time management and complete laziness by him. If he got up at 7 and worked 8-4/5 he'd then be free to do chores and so on after 5.

Similarly, Saturday afternoon - a few hours of watching footy while you're doing the garden and everything? That's not on. How much leisure time do you get each week? It should be the same.

I agree kingfisher

Why does he get up late just because he starts work later? My husband often works until 9 or later. But he gets up at 6 because he starts work at 8.

If OP's DH got up at 8 even, he'd still have 4 hours to work around the house.

Basically his time not working is free time, whereas OP's is chores time.

I wonder if OP's husband is choosing his working hours/job as a means of opting out of family life?

I get the impression from OP's posts that it's his ATTITUDE & lack of ownership about pulling his weight at home that's the issue.

I'd be cutting back on something.

Perhaps a family meeting, where you make it clear that activities, services etc will have to stop for EVERYONE unless your family steps up. Make a rota, with the clear understand that there will be repercussions. So if the teenagers don't do chores, then no football.

Other than that, it's just you venting, no-one doing anything to help & the cycle continues.

I have a DH who travels a lot and I work way too many hours. I am moving to a role that is 50 hours a week with a short commute and I can't wait.

My solution has been to hire help because my DC are aged 5 and under. You have teenagers. I think the conversation with your DH needs to be about how he can support you in getting the DC to do their chores. The only bed that should need changing in the house is your bed. The DC should be changing their own beds. Laundry, that should be done by them too. Driving them everywhere?!?! Get them bikes, a helmet plus a reflective jacket and they can pedal their way to their destination. Cooking dinner, the DC can cook two nights a week each. It will teach them valuable life skills.

You are feeling lonely. I get it and felt lonely sometimes too when it was me doing all the domestic work after a 12 hour day while DH was away. Your reasons are not good ones IMO for wanting a divorce and I think you are upset with the wrong person in your family. I would be furious with my DC that as teenagers they are not participating in family life.

Also, I do give DH a defined list of things to do. He is busy but has much more opportunity for calling banks, sorting out taxes etc than I do with my role. He might be really really senior at work but he has been the one to take a week off to spend with the kids over their spring break while I work.

My 7 & 11 year old boys do more than that. You need to give them more jobs. Surely they can mow the lawn, garden, Hoover, dust, tidy up etc as well as cook occasionally?

Don't infantilise your teens.

You tried to get them to cook, but you had to nag them about ingredients?

Meal plan. Shop. Expect.

It doesn't matter if they make the same dish every week - just get on with it!

Teens can iron, vacuum, dust, tidy, wash up, lay tables etc. They should be doing more.

Your DH should also be doing more.

I would divorce over this. But I'd go to counselling or mediation first.