Am I mad to end my marriage because he won't put the bins out?

[toastandjamplease]

Hi all,

Namechanged to protect the innocent! Apologies that I think this will be a long one but don’t want to dripfeed! I have been married just over 20 years. We have 3 DCs, all high-school age. We both work FT, although my husband works much longer hours than me with lots of travel. My OH does most of the taxi-ing on weekends, taking kids to football on Saturday mornings etc. He also cooks on the weekend and takes care of everything IT-related. We have a cleaner who keeps the house just about under control.

However, everything else is done by me. That is, all the school runs, after school activities, laundry, shopping, most of the cooking, DIY, day-to-day tidying etc. I have always done more than him but things have fallen even more on me as his job has involved more and more travel. He is supposed to do the laundry when he is here but does maybe 1 load in 10 and only when I ask him to put the wash on.

We recently moved house, which has brought things to a head. It is not massive but has a large garden and it quite remote. It was very much my choice and I cannot tell you how much I love where we live now. But it is too much for me to do all the above single-handed. I have told my husband (repeatedly) that I cannot do this any more. I work 40 hours a week on top of doing pretty much everything around the house and garden and I am exhausted. More than anything, it is not just the practical side of this but the emotional. That is, I feel like though I am constantly looking out for everyone yet there is never anyone there to look out for me. If I forget to do something, it just won't get done.

At Christmas, I told him that I couldn't do this anymore and unless he started showing a bit more support then I would be asking for a divorce. I gave him a couple of very clear examples of what I mean. First, he has never changed the beds in 20 years of marriage. I told him that makes me feel like he takes it for granted it’s my job and is demeaning. Second, in the 3 years we have lived here, he has never put the rubbish out – it seems like even the laziest husbands talked about on here “do the bins” and he won’t even do that. Last week, I forgot to put the bins out so (of course) the rubbish didn't get collected. I am so sick of being in charge of practically bloody everything. At Christmas, I told him that these things are like little snapshots of how everything is left to me. In effect I was giving him a couple of very simple things he could do to show that he was listening to me. But, since then, he hasn’t taken the rubbish out once or changed a sheet.

My husband works very hard, he earns a lot more than I do, and he is a very generous person. We bought this house because it was what I wanted, it is not his thing at all but he wanted me to be happy. He is brilliant in a crisis. We agree almost entirely on priorities re. the children and I would say that he is a great father, but I know that part of being a great parent is setting a good example to your children and I think we are both setting a poor example – him by being lazy around the house and me by being a martyr about all things domestic!

Given how I have laid out my stall, I feel like he is giving me no choice but to tell him this is over. But it feels like such a drastic step. In particular, it will mean selling the house and probably moving much closer to the kids’ school. The kids will be fine with the move (I think) as they will be nearer friends etc. but will be heartbroken about us splitting up. In practice, he spends half the year away anyway so I’m hoping in practical terms I can keep things on an even keel for them. I feel so awful about the whole thing but it’s like he’s given me no choice - I have told him how I feel and he has demonstrated time and again that he will not value what I do around the place or help in any of the ways I have asked him to. Since we moved house, the argument has almost moved beyond what is fair to what is possible – I just cannot do it anymore.

So, I guess I am looking for reassurance on a few things. I am terrified we’ll all end up worse off in every way and it will all be my fault as I’ve allowed this situation to develop but am suddenly saying no more! The questions I keep turning over in my head are these:

• Am I being reasonable to divorce my husband because he won’t put the bins out (and take on other things around the house)?
• Will the kids understand why these things are such a big deal or will they blame me?
• Will I get over selling this lovely house to move somewhere cheaper and more practical? I can hardly bear to think about it but it will have to be done.

Any thoughts would be welcome. I haven’t spoken to a soul about this is RL and am terrified of what I think I’m about to do... Thank you!

He taxis the kids tho clubs at weekends and does all the weekend cooking....that's pretty good.

OP also works long hours and at two different jobs - full time paid, full time unpaid. Does that mean she gets to pick a few preferred chores at the weekend and assume some muggins will do the rest? Or does being the wife mean she has to be the muggins?

I think you should decide on task division as a family, rather than you telling people what to do.
It makes it everyone's responsibility, and together you could come up with great solutions.

I wonder if your standards are different. you change the sheets because you want them changed. He's not bothered at that point. I think he sounds like he does actually quite a bit and not at all lazy. Two full time jobs are hard to manage with running a house especially if children are involved. Perhaps they should have more chores? Why aren't they doing stuff like the laundry? Mine do.

Agree with PP, if you were a single parent you would be doing everything anyway (plus everything dh currently does).

There are some really good suggestions here - increasing hours for your cleaner and gardener and making sure your kids start pulling their weight a bit more sounds like the easiest fix. Couple counselling if making practical changes alone doesn't fully address the issue. It does sound as if you've got into a bit of a negative frame of mind about it, understandable if you're exhausted.

can you outsource more stuff?

For example, my cleaner changes the bedding. Could you increase the number of days that the cleaner comes? Get a gardener?.

Your teens can strip their own beds, and do their own washing (mine do, or it doesn't get done). I do a jobs list for my teens (actually all my children) each day, this includes bins, emptying dishwasher, hoovering etc. Everyone in a house needs to pull their weight.

it's probably worth trying all of that before you decide to end things with him. I'm on my own and in many ways it's easier - no resentment etc, but the workload is relentless. As to whether you stay in the house - imo if the relationship is crap then a nice house doesn't make up for it. On the other hand, your relationship doesn't sound so bad. You just need more strategies in place.

2 parents working full time plus, with 3 children, even if they are teenagers, is bloody difficult. In fact all the people I know with 3 DC ended up with at least 1 parent going part-time. If you are managing working full-time and your DH is away a lot, that's even harder, and it does mean everything with devolve on you.
It does sound as if he's reasonable when he's around ( except for the bins, is he never there on bin night?) but there's an awful lot to do. Get the DC to help, buy in extra help, cut your hours if you can/want to. Set up reminders on family calendar - everyone in this house gets a reminder popping up on their phone for bin night ( all teenage+).

I refuse to do the shopping by myself ( plead bad back) and if I do an online order I make it a real dull basic shop unless I have had help with meal planning and shopping list. They now remind me when in time to do shopping, and have started creating/adding to the list of their own volition.
You have done all the thinking ( wifework) for your family, maybe they don't know what's involved, but it's time they did. Maybe family planning sessions would help?

It's not trivial, you do all the wife work. If you were single, you'd still have to do it, but without the resentment simmering away. He hasn't changed after you've told him, because his life is too damn convenient for him.
I think you need to move somewhere the children aren't reliant on taxiing- it's going to become more and more of a problem- then see how things are. If he doesn't want to change, it will show you how much he actually cares about your relationship.

He's probably blood knackered, he works all those hours more than you and still does all that when he's home. A lot of people that work away and long hours come home and do nothing so I'd count yourself lucky. If you got a divorce you'd be doing it all on your own anyway. Not putting the bins out, when he does all the other stuff, is the most ridiculous reason for divorce I've ever heard

I'm curious - to all those posters who thinks DH here works long hours so OP should be grateful for anything he does, do you honestly not believe OP is working long hours as well? She is working full regular hours plus full house hours during the week or do hours spent running the house and family not count as hours?

I'd wager her total hours are longer and she doesn't get a quiet evening in a hotel with no kids to chase.

As pp mentioned, your children are old enough to do some chores around the house like putting the bins out.

I do think your husband needs to understand how this makes you feel. I would go on strike to make my point. Counseling sounds like a better idea.

Still no response on how much the kids do, how much down time her and her dh have both together and apart, and if their lives can be simplified in any way?

I'm not a fan of the woman being expected to give up her career and wage simply because the man has been able to focus on his career and so has a better job as a result. If anything, he should be sacrificing his career for a bit so she can catch up! I say that as someone who has fallen into that trap myself.

I think you are being unreasonable, yes.

I hate all this division of work thing.
If he was doing absolutely nothing all day,then I could understand it, but he works hard too.

It's just the way it is sometimes. It's annoying, boring etc, but someone has to do it.

I hate that I do the majority of the cooking and washing up!, But DH sometimes starts work at 5am and is fit to drop by tea-time!

Have you asked the kids to do more?

Well I started off thinking that I was unhappy with my marriage for similarly trivial sounding reasons.

When I scratched the surface I realised that my husband is actually a deeply selfish and lazy individual who liked the idea of having a family but was unwilling to put the effort into doing the mundane work associated with it. Instead he preferred to find ways of avoiding his share by "forgetting", putting things off, doing them badly so that in the end I gave up on him. It made me miserable but my happiness was not important to him. That's not the action of someone who loves you.

If anything, he should be sacrificing his career for a bit so she can catch up! I say that as someone who has fallen into that trap myself.

This is the commonest regret I hear expressed by my divorced peers - that they let their careers drift to support their DHs when the children were young and never had reciprocal support to rebuild their own path because they never saw themselves as future divorcees. Its massive financial risk for any woman to take.

From neonrainbow
"Your problem is with your kids i think. Your husband appears to do a fair bit while he's there but you've raised three lazy kids who by the sounds of it has not been taught that the upkeep of the house you are all living is all of your responsibility. That's your and your husband's fault"

I entirely agree. I notice that in all your responses, you have either omitted or skimmed over the prospect of your children helping whereas I think this is imperative to resolving the problems you describe.

I would say that his job is not compatible for family life. Could he not do a job which is?

Weekend tasks - split them up and rotate them. Does the weekend ferrying involve participation, or can you get some alone time while waiting? I bet you are doing a whole morning tasks while he does that....!

Give him a list of chores which are his and you will be reminding him. Stop doing his laundry for a while and see how he likes it.

Its not about the bins. Its about you being the one doing the looking after and being on your knees and the person who is supposed to care doesn't change even when you told them four months ago.

**you will not be reminding him!

yabu this sounds so easily sorted your dc need to step up ion return for pocket money, it should be quite simple for one of them to put the bins out. The dc should be stripping and remaking their own beds if they are high school age and perhaps each of them could take a turn cooking once a week.

im wondering how he could do more if he is away 6 months of the year and when hes here he works more hours than you do.

maybe you change bed sheets too much for his liking? maybe he doesn't care if he sleeps in sheets for 6 months at a time but you want them changed every week - why should he change to your standards?

why do you work full time? do you need to?

sounds like its not that he doesn't do stuff that's the problem but that he works away from home a lot of the time and you don't have time to do everything because you work full time so things get left.

Maybe you need to speak about both your work patterns and see what needs changed to suit you as a family.

I think this is a thread where it would be interesting to hear his side of the story.

I don't mean that snarkily, I'm not implying that OP isn't telling the whole truth, just that I suspect it would be much easier to understand the problem and see where the differences really lie.

To which end, OP have you considered couples counselling? Just so that you can hear each other's honest point of view in a safe environment? Counselling isn't only for those who are about to split up, it offers a different way of communicating to avoid the issue building to the point where splitting up IS very likely.

im wondering how he could do more if he is away 6 months of the year and when hes here he works more hours than you do.

Where on earth do you get from? The 6 months or the notion that he works more than she does at home? He does three self selected activities at the weekend and nothing during the week. She works full time and does all the wife work.

Its also simply not true to say that because you are traveling for work you cannot contribute to the practical running of a house.

You need to get the kids to help more, give them their own jobs including bins

I think this is not about bins and actually about the OP feeling taken for granted and feeling under appreciated.

I say this because I have periods of feeling the same, when day to day life relies on you alone, it's hard and yes if OP was single she'd be doing it all but that's not the point! Doing everything because there is no one else is a lot different from doing everything because the others in your life don't care enough to do it! (I say this as someone who spent many years as a single parent)

OP does your H ever make you feel appreciated for everything you do? (Of course this works both ways!)

I know once or twice when I haven't planned dinner or similar and it's just not been done by DH because he just assumes I'll be doing it, I get pissed off and frustrated that life doesn't seem to flow without me jollying it along.

If you got divorced, would you be planning on staying single, or would you be hoping to meet someone new? Because if the latter, I would be surprised if you could meet someone who would be an improvement on your husband - you'd certainly have to be extremely fortunate. He may not be perfect, but who is?

There are many people who wouldn't be prepared to live in a remote area just to please their partner. There are many men who wouldn't do all the cooking at the weekend. Yes, on the face of it there's no reason why he couldn't change the sheets or put the bins out sometimes, but you may just have to suck that one up and look at the bigger picture.

IMO some people – men and women – are just rubbish at this stuff. They don't see what's in front of their noses and breeze past things merrily. Housework and child-wrangling, if it's all being done, is quite invisible as well - if the tidy, clean house is the norm, many of these rubbish people (particularly if they haven't observed the work behind it because they're away) won't really think too hard about how much paddling is going on under the smooth surface.

All the hand-wringing in the world about 'wifework' etc won't help if he's one of those types who is just a bit rubbish (as opposed to actively expecting you to do it all and making nasty comments if the house isn't up to his standards, which has come up in past threads and is different, and abusive). Assuming he is otherwise worth it – and it sounds like he is – you need to take control of this situation and turn it around so you feel less downtrodden. I know you shouldn't have to tell people they need to pull their weight, but like I say, some just don't get it. So that will probably mean a family meeting to explain your feelings to everyone, not just your DH. Then agree a rota with allocated jobs for everyone, including the children. Anything that you are keen to outsource (cleaner makes beds and does bins, monthly garden tidy by gardener, etc), go ahead and make that a reality. Everything else is done according to rota. Add reminders to phones etc if that's what will help prompt things.

There is never a need for one person to do everything. I noticed something great about my in-laws which I reflect in my own house: DH does not get to sit down/relax until DW does (or vice versa).

Also, ensure your standards are not so sky-high that you aren't able to accept others' efforts, and that you factor in some downtime for both of you, together and separately.