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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

"Surrendering" to your femininity... Have you done this/ do you do this?

183 replies

MoreSacredDance · 22/03/2017 10:05

Name change because this could be a bit "outing" put together with some other posts of mine.

My husband and I are currently going through the toughest period of our marriage. I am hopeful and positive though, because we both love each other very much and want to stay together.

In short, he feels emasculated and this has filtered into lots of different parts of our relationship, including a much reduced sex life. I accept that my behaviour have led to or worsened this. My job means I have to be strong, confident and in control. I have probably attempted to use a lot of the "tools" I employ to succeed at work within our marriage, and that has NOT worked well. I see that now.

I watched John Wineland's "What Men Crave" ten minute talk and it was like a lightbulb moment. My husband has actually told me all these things, just in different ways that I didn't take time to listen to and understand.

I don't think it's a bad thing for a husband to want to lead or feel like a hero or all those other cheesy things. Especially if that is what he feels is missing in his marriage. I think it IS possible for me to surrender to my femininity while still being strong, assured and confident. Submission and surrender are different in my eyes now. Deep down, I actually do want to surrender at times as I am exhausted from constantly fighting to control every little thing.

But how do I do this? Has anyone else recognised this and actively made this change? I'm not even sure where to start in a practical sense.

OP posts:
Joysmum · 23/03/2017 19:46

She said her actions are making her husband feel emasculated, and she is wondering if she should "surrender" like a proper woman in order for him to save their relationship

She's not actually said what he's said. That's her perception having watched that video.

Anyone could say the same if their partner were overbearing, domineering and not collaborating with them. That's what numerous posters have pointed out and gender has nothing to do it with it. M
That's why I posted as I did from the start to advise the OP not to confuse matters by seeing this as a gender or feminist issue, it's simply about feeling considered and respected. That's what we all want.

Bananamanfan · 23/03/2017 19:56

I just watched that video and I'm gobsmacked that a man is telling women to separate what makes them successful at work from what makes a successful relationship. That advice is so glaringly obviously applicable the other way around in so many people i know that i cannot continue with anymore of that bs. As for the men just emerging from "the haze of guilt"- Shock

Joysmum · 23/03/2017 20:00

Yeah it was filing wasn't it Bananamanfan

Both DH and I have both been guilty of bringing our work home with us, talking too fast, and getting stuck in a rut in the bedroom.

We'll never be guilty of assuming this is a gender and equality issue, nor of overly dramic pauses and asthmatic style breathing for effect Grin

Bananamanfan · 23/03/2017 20:03

He's just so darn adorable that he has to leave those pauses so that we can recover in time for the next nugget.Grin

PoorYorick · 23/03/2017 20:03

I don't think I will seek this video out. I've just got a new laptop and I don't think the screen is boot-proof.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 20:06

He's just so darn adorable that he has to leave those pauses so that we can recover in time for the next nugget.

Grin

He wants us to think he is saying all this with some reticence. My bum he is.

JigglyTuff · 23/03/2017 20:25

I can't believe he gave that talk at a meeting of highly successful professional women and they didn't just walk out

Kr1stina · 23/03/2017 20:33

She said her actions are making her husband feel emasculated, and she is wondering if she should "surrender" like a proper woman in order for him to save their relationship

Anyone could say the same if their partner were overbearing, domineering and not collaborating with them. That's what numerous posters have pointed out and gender has nothing to do it with it

I've read lots of threads on MN where women have said that their partner is over bearing and domineering . Not one of them has said that they feel that his actions are defeminisimg them and they want him to surrender like a proper man to save their relationship.

Nor had anyone advised these women to get their husband to surrender.

And I've never seen a man posting for advice because he fears his actions are defeminisimg his wife / partner and he wants to surrender to his masculinity .

And I've never in my life heard a man talking in such terms.

Which suggests to me that the whole issue and concept is in fact gendered.

Naicehamshop · 23/03/2017 20:36

Couldn't agree more, Kr1stina.

Sylvannas · 23/03/2017 20:37

Bertrand it meant what I said it meant. In society there is chivalry and there is also feminism. There can be a quality mix of both.

To give you an example, my (male) friend was going into a shop, a lady was exiting the shop. He held the door open for her. She had a massive go at him saying how she was perfectly capable of opening it herself.That example is a bit OTT mind

You can be a delicate feminine flower getting hubby to open the hard to open jars in the house and still be equals in the relationship. It's different for each person I guess.

BertrandRussell · 23/03/2017 20:42

"To give you an example, my (male) friend was going into a shop, a lady was exiting the shop. He held the door open for her. She had a massive go at him saying how she was perfectly capable of opening it herself.That example is a bit OTT mind"

You know something? I have come to the conclusion that this story is completely apocryphal. I have never met anyone it has happened to- but I've met loads of people who know someone it's happened to...........

I don't think feminism and chivalry are two sides of the same coin. Or even anything to do with each other at all.

IfNotNowThenWhenever · 23/03/2017 20:50

Ha! I was just thinking that I have heard that story a million times, and yet never met a single woman who has "had a go" at a man for opening the door for her. And I know some right stroppy feminists Grin

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 21:00

JigglyTuff: Indeed.

BoBaraMoMara · 23/03/2017 21:02

Could you have managed to listen to that talk without heckling him?

Sylvannas · 23/03/2017 21:15

LOL.
Well I'm afraid when it comes to your belief in authenticity of a genuine experience I've shared, I really don't care.

My point was exactly what you are saying. It's not a question of one or the other. But some people consider them as much. That was my point.

Shoxfordian · 23/03/2017 21:24

Ugh. Just watched that talk and wish I hadn't.

" It's not something in the way she thinks; it's something in the way she moves"

What the actual fuck

Am amazed 901 people liked it. I added one thumbs down to the dislike though; please go dislike it too!

BertrandRussell · 23/03/2017 21:33

"My point was exactly what you are saying. It's not a question of one or the other. But some people consider them as much. That was my point."
So are you saying that the OP should let her dp be more chivalrous?

Batteriesallgone · 23/03/2017 21:53

Nobody knows what the DH is thinking because at no point did the OP say or even clearly allude to what he actually said.

The OP and all her later posts were about her, her feelings, her interpretations, and her 'revelation' when watching this sexist crap. She didn't say her husband agrees with it or even whether he had watched it.

One might argue if you want to resolve an issue with your DH you'd be best starting with listening to what he has actually said, rather than seeking out the latest extreme/sensationalist guru on the internet to listen to instead. But I think the OP has buggered off so we'll never know.

PoorYorick · 23/03/2017 21:57

I've got no intention of watching this video but based on what people have said about it, I can't really believe it would sway a reasonably intelligent woman whose natural tendency is control freakery into submission and surrender. Something's off with this.

I mean fuck it, I actually am a genuine sub and it's making me want to nail his balls to a spanking horse.

user1487175389 · 23/03/2017 22:02

Sorry but thats bollocks.

Nothing inherently feminine about being passive or submissive.

Nothing inherently masculine about leading or dominating.

We're all complex people with needs and emotions. You need to be with someone who doesn't need to get off on subjugation of the person he's supposed to be an equal partner too. He should be confident that the enough in himself that he doesn't feel the need to try and make you 'less' than you are and dress it up as your 'true feminine nature'. It's 2017!

QuiteUnfitBit · 23/03/2017 22:07

I can't really believe it would sway a reasonably intelligent woman whose natural tendency is control freakery into submission and surrender
I've not watched the video either, but I think you've nailed it. Wink

PoorYorick · 23/03/2017 22:16

Oh bollocks. This post will probably get deleted for troll hunting but is it yet another one of those UK Punter twats we made fun of last week, trying to get us to watch the video and fall on the floor with our legs in the air? They're fucking everywhere at the moment.

BoBaraMoMara · 23/03/2017 22:28

Alas, PoorYorick I think you are correct.

AntiGrinch · 23/03/2017 22:31

I'm a feminist, a radical feminist in fact, but I would like to stand up for chivalry (although that is not what this thread is about).

Men and women have different lives and are treated differently. One example of where women's lives hugely differ from men's is when they have children. But there are many other examples.

If a man acknowledges his privilege relative to you, and behaves generously towards in you an attempt at palliative recompense, I see that as chivalry, and I appreciate it. "Equality" is mean and doesn't touch the sides. I never want a partner (or even a friend) who is concerned with "equality" ever again, because if men really are friends to women, and really do want to make moves towards fairness, than they have a fuck load further to go than "one for you, one for me OH HOWL OH WHINE YOU GOT ONE MORE SWEETIE THAN ME"

If I am exhausted (because I work "the second shift"; because I have to that much more at work to get the recognition of a man; because I earn 75p to his quid and don't have money to throw at my tiredness; because I have to do that much more to my body for it to be considered suitable for polite society; because 4 years of pregnancy and breastfeeding have left my body rickety and weak with a shonky, painful pelvis; because I was groped on the tube, a-fucking-GAIN; etc) - if I am exhausted, and a man lets me have the seat rather than him and pours me a drink before he pours his own - he is on my side. At least he might be. There are ways and motivations of doing things like that are not about being a patronising git but are as my friend. And I will fucking take it. And you could call it chivalry.

A man who grabs the seat for himself, grabs the drink for himself, and then whines "well they wanted equality" has no idea what fairness actually is.

PoorYorick · 23/03/2017 22:33

I'm amazed they've got the time. Aren't they balls deep in naked, willing women?

You wouldn't think these paragons of strong masculinity would have their knickers in such a twist over the existence of a parenting website that laughs at them. Why is that, I wonder.

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