"Surrendering" to your femininity... Have you done this/ do you do this?

[MoreSacredDance]

Name change because this could be a bit "outing" put together with some other posts of mine.

My husband and I are currently going through the toughest period of our marriage. I am hopeful and positive though, because we both love each other very much and want to stay together.

In short, he feels emasculated and this has filtered into lots of different parts of our relationship, including a much reduced sex life. I accept that my behaviour have led to or worsened this. My job means I have to be strong, confident and in control. I have probably attempted to use a lot of the "tools" I employ to succeed at work within our marriage, and that has NOT worked well. I see that now.

I watched John Wineland's "What Men Crave" ten minute talk and it was like a lightbulb moment. My husband has actually told me all these things, just in different ways that I didn't take time to listen to and understand.

I don't think it's a bad thing for a husband to want to lead or feel like a hero or all those other cheesy things. Especially if that is what he feels is missing in his marriage. I think it IS possible for me to surrender to my femininity while still being strong, assured and confident. Submission and surrender are different in my eyes now. Deep down, I actually do want to surrender at times as I am exhausted from constantly fighting to control every little thing.

But how do I do this? Has anyone else recognised this and actively made this change? I'm not even sure where to start in a practical sense.

[DoubleCarrick]

DH is the boss in our relationship I just subtly make sure I get my own way

In all seriousness, I get what you mean, op. Feel free to pm me, I have some thoughts that I'd rather not share on here as I've already upset loads of people on another thread this morning and don't fancy doing it again as I don't name change often

[Cricrichan]

Huh? You're equal and a team. You don't need to pretend to be weak to make him feel manly but you need to be fair and make sure that you're both happy with your decisions and that he gets to have his say too.

[TheNaze73]

3 billion people on the planet, all won't want the same thing. I think communication is key here.

[sonlypuppyfat]

I think I know what you mean, I think some men feel like spare parts unneeded etc because women can do without them

[ErrolTheDragon]

I don't think it's a bad thing for a husband to want to lead or feel like a hero

So, does he proactively try to do that?

If you're actually domineering, and your partnership isn't equal, then maybe you might try to modify your behaviour. That's got nothing to do with 'femininity', it doesn't mean you need to pretend some weakness or incompetence.

[Batteriesallgone]

So I think maybe what you are saying is that you find joint decisions difficult, so one person tends to lead on any specific thing.

You are more controlling than him so you have ended up being the lead in pretty much every area.

I'm not sure it's about learning to be submissive so much as learning to listen. Especially the difference between hearing and listening. I suspect this is a skill that would aid you in other areas of life too, particularly higher levels of management at work.

Does that sound right? Or do you really want to learn to be submissive?

[PickAChew]

It's as ok for a husband to want to feel like a hero etc etc as it is for his wife to want to feel that way.

Utter sexist bollocks.

[GooseberryJam]

If he doesn't feel you listen to him, fine. If he wants to tell you what to do, it's not fine. A lot of this way of thinking comes across as men being resentful that they're not the boss of everything anymore, when there's no reason for them to be other than that they're the MAN.

My dad came from a working class background and all that, but he let my mum have total charge of family finances because she was good at dealing with them. He saw that as a win win for us all. How is your husband about the things you do better than him? Would he prefer to be in charge 'just because'?

[corythatwas]

BreatheDeep Wed 22-Mar-17 10:24:27
"Hmm, I think I understand what you're trying to say. He feels like he isn't relevant in the relationship as you make all the decisions and have control. I don't think that's anything to do with masculinity or femininity though. You need to be equals and make decisions together. Neither of you should be in control."

This, If you, personally, are a control freak and he doesn't get a word in, why do you have to make that about male and female, when it's pretty obvious that this submissive language has the potential of feeding into some pretty misogynistic thinking.

Dh feels like a hero because he has been there for his children and me during some pretty difficult times, because he has been able to meet some of the most basic needs of his children from the day they were born, because he can see that they have taken on values and ways of being from him that makes them into pretty decent people.

And I feel like a hero for exactly the same reasons.

Two heroes standing side by side. Achilles and Patroclus. Men are clearly capable of these equal side-by-side relationships: that is what male-male relationships have looked like since times immemorial, so why do male-female relationships have to be conceived in terms of submission and hierarchy?

[ErrolTheDragon]

In your job, it sounds like a lot of the time you have to be 'the boss'. But surely some of the time you're interacting with peers in different departments. Do you try to 'take control' of them, or do you use skills such as teamwork and delegation? If you are interacting with a colleague you respect as an equal, surely you don't feel that 'surrender' or 'submission' come into it at any point? There might sometimes be compromise. There might be decisions that wouldn't be precisely what you'd have made, but you accept them and get on with the job.

If that makes sense in your workplace, shouldn't it also apply in your marriage?

[MoreSacredDance]

Thank you for the thoughts and taking time to read and respond, especially to those who took time to work past the knee-jerk reaction that my husband is a misogynist pig who wants to grind my self worth into the ground! I'm not an idiot and wouldn't be married to someone like that.

We have to use words to try and explain things. Words like femininity/ masculinity have meanings and connotations and this is why I used them- to best describe the situation. I haven't said that these words or traits must apply universally and only to a man or woman.

There are a few things here that definitely help, such as:

Listening to what he says rather than deciding for myself what he wants or needs and then doing/ giving him that

Modifying domineering behaviours, such that I allow more of partnership and for trust to build up in our relationship.

Thanks again for all your posts!

[BeyondUser24601]

May I suggest in the nicest way, that mn relationships might not be the best place to get positive feedback on this idea.

[corythatwas]

The difficulty with using the words femininity and masculinity is that you are telling both himself and yourself that you need to practise specific habits of listening and submitting because of your gender. It is hard to avoid the connotations that it is, somehow, particularly bad when a woman is decisive or that a man will suffer more from this. And that can easily lead to the idea that the woman has to be less decisive than the man, because men are somehow more sensitive plants, or because a man's suffering matters more than a woman's.

When actually, all that is required in any relationship is for both parts to behave like decent human beings.

[TheNaze73]

Listening to what he says rather than deciding for myself what he wants or needs and then doing/ giving him that

I think that applies to both women & men. When people get complacent, stop listening & get assumptive, problems start to happen. Men & woman will have shared goals & aspirations within a relationship however, for a man to truly understand a woman's needs & vice versa by assuming, is a recipe for disaster

[JellyWitch]

Why can you not work as an equal team? Play to your individual strengths and prop up each other's weaknesses.

You shouldn't need to surrender to his ego to facilitate that.

[deadringer]

You have to live your life as it best suits you, but i could not live with a man who felt emasculated because i am a confident woman and have a strong character. I am who i am, he is who he is and it either works or it doesnt. There is nothing wrong with compromise but it seems its always the woman who has to make changes.

[Batteriesallgone]

The reason relationship advice like this 'surrendering' stuff is appealing is because it's formulaic. That's also why it's crap.

Imagine if it works temporarily, and you spend the next however many years still not effectively communicating, just following an external set of rules.

You need to find a real way of hearing and understanding each other.

[MoreSacredDance]

Just to be clear, and you may want to read through my post again if you didn't see it this way, this is not about surrendering to another person or their ego or will. It's about surrendering to the parts of MYSELF that at the moment I don't allow into my marriage, because I (not him!) view them as a weakness or something to constantly try to hide.

If I can find ways to show and be comfortable with these vulnerabilities, rather than hide them, then perhaps this gives my husband a chance to show that he actually has corresponding strengths and therefore feel like he has more of a role and value in our life together.

[TheChampagneGalop]

"surrender to my femininity"

Can you tell us what this means? Because I truly don't get it.
The language you use is vague and sound sexist. If you simply want a more equal relationship with your DH where you both decide things not just you, it could be worded better.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Maybe think of it more as 'expressing parts of my character'?

[TheChampagneGalop]

Reading your latest post it sounds more like what Errol says, yes?

[MoreSacredDance]

Errol - I think that would actually help a lot. Easier said than done for a lot of people I imagine, but I can definitely try to accept these things as part of me, and know I have my husband there as support so it doesn't feel so intimidating to do so. Thank you for being so constructive with your thoughts and replies :-)

[MorrisZapp]

Could you give actual examples of the kind of things you did before, and what you do now?

[Jux]

That way madness lies. Do consider this very carefully.

Why are you the one who has to change?
Can he not change? Why?

If he is indecisive, can he not learn to be more decisive?
If he is unassertive, can he not learn to be assertive?

IMO, if he is unhappy due to his own failings it is not up to you to change yourself so that he feels like his failings are strengths - thus making the whole less than the sum of its parts - but it would be your role to support him in his own assertiveness training.

Do you see the difference? I'm sure you do. Does your dh, more to the point? I imagine he will disagree in some way though.

What he is saying is he wants you to be weaker so that he can feel like a big strong man, without him having to make the effort to be a big strong man (and I expect you became stronger within marriage because you had to pick up the slack from his not being a big strong man).

This is not a good route to travel, believe me.

[ithakabythesea]

OP, it sounds like you think your DH is a bit of a wimp - do you struggle to fancy him? I don't think changing your personality will help with that, maybe you need to find a man who isn't threatened by you. In truth, you are not going to find it easy to change and I foresee great disappointment ahead when your bloke doesn't magically 'man up'.

If he is not a strong and capable man now, you dropping the reins is unlikely to make him pick them up - it will just lead to disappointment and frustration when he has a new excuse to whine that it is all your fault for not doing 'being a woman' correctly.

I think open communication is required and if you have no children, think deeply about your basic compatibility.