"Surrendering" to your femininity... Have you done this/ do you do this?

[MoreSacredDance]

Name change because this could be a bit "outing" put together with some other posts of mine.

My husband and I are currently going through the toughest period of our marriage. I am hopeful and positive though, because we both love each other very much and want to stay together.

In short, he feels emasculated and this has filtered into lots of different parts of our relationship, including a much reduced sex life. I accept that my behaviour have led to or worsened this. My job means I have to be strong, confident and in control. I have probably attempted to use a lot of the "tools" I employ to succeed at work within our marriage, and that has NOT worked well. I see that now.

I watched John Wineland's "What Men Crave" ten minute talk and it was like a lightbulb moment. My husband has actually told me all these things, just in different ways that I didn't take time to listen to and understand.

I don't think it's a bad thing for a husband to want to lead or feel like a hero or all those other cheesy things. Especially if that is what he feels is missing in his marriage. I think it IS possible for me to surrender to my femininity while still being strong, assured and confident. Submission and surrender are different in my eyes now. Deep down, I actually do want to surrender at times as I am exhausted from constantly fighting to control every little thing.

But how do I do this? Has anyone else recognised this and actively made this change? I'm not even sure where to start in a practical sense.

I think part of the reason for the reaction to your OP is the term 'surrendered' which is an odd choice in itself but also resonates with a really controversial book The Surrendered Wife en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrendered_wife There was a woman on here who tried it a few years ago with pretty awful results.

Nah
Ditch him and get a real man whose dick doesn't wilt because a women is strong and confident.
HTH

This^

Hi Jux - Thanks for replying.

Yes, I think he is realising that he needs to and can learn to be more decisive and assertive. I am being very honest and saying that I don't think I give him a lot of chances or space to do that due to the controlling and domineering aspects of my personality. I need to find some ways to let go of this. As Errol suggested, this is not being weaker! I don't want to think of it in that way because it only fuels the issues I have with those particular parts of my personality that I try to suppress (in that I do see them as weaknesses). If I show them a bit more, then perhaps this is where he can make more decisions and be more assertive.

I'm a very strong, direct and confident woman. I'm also quite senior at work in a job that involves controlling, organising and directing.

But I would say I do have a softer, more vulnerable side. I'm clumsy, I lose things a lot and I let my DH help me in these situations.

I also have an illness (bipolar) and so he gets to take care of me when I'm unwell.

When these sort of things happen I tell him how grateful I am that he's around to take care of me (because I am) and that he's my rock (because he is). I genuinely believe this balances things out in our relationship when otherwise I would be the strong leader all of the time.

I don't like the way that it's framed as 'emasculating'/'femininity' etc.

A better way to think of it is that there should be a balance in any relationship. Sometimes you should be the leader and decisive ones other times you should rely on your partner (where they have strengths that you don't, when you're ill, sad, stressed, etc).

There's no need to go back to the 1950s though, this balance can be found without becoming a Stepford wife.

Do you think you have issues being vulnerable and depending on other people generally?

OP I just read this comment of yours and think it hits the nail on the head...

"If I can find ways to show and be comfortable with these vulnerabilities, rather than hide them, then perhaps this gives my husband a chance to show that he actually has corresponding strengths and therefore feel like he has more of a role and value in our life together."

Just don't confuse this with outdated and misogynistic views of femininity and masculinity. Both sexes have to find a way to show their vulnerabilities...it's what creates intimacy and gives the other person a chance to be the lead/nurturer. Nothing to do with being a man or woman.

ergh, this sounds awful. Sorry OP but if your husband can't cope with you being a human being, then ... well, I don't know what you can do.

It sounds as though you're making all the changes, as if you accept that your husband is right.

Why can't he change?

Is it really unthinkable that...

• A woman can sometimes be the one in the wrong in a relationship challenge?
• That a man is allowed to have feelings and communicate these to his wife?
• That the wife may then want to consider ways of altering her behaviour if she accepts that she's the one in the wrong in this specific instance?

Isn't this how good relationships work...some challenges it will be the man, some the woman, many it will be a bit of both.

Yes, OP has barked up the wrong tree with linking it to some misogynistic nonsense but at the root...however if she is in fact being domineering and not allowing any vulnerability to show then why not consider some tweaks to her behaviour?

stumbly - Thanks so much. Your replies have been very helpful. It's exactly this intimacy that we are missing and I think we are closer than we've ever been to figuring out how to get it back. It sounds like you are very self-aware and that is what I am hoping for both of us. :-)

Listening to what he says rather than deciding for myself what he wants or needs and then doing/ giving him that

This just sounds like what any one should be doing in any relationship. Not just between men and women or any romantic relationship but in friendships too. Just translates to being reasonable and caring and nothing to do with masculinity or femininity

If it helps...I went through some similar thinking although it wasn't related to relationships as I was single at the time.

I always struggled to let anyone see my vulnerabilities, I had a need to feel 'strong' all of the time and perceived anything else as 'weak'. I could never ask for help or rely on anyone else.

I had some counselling and realised it stemmed back to things that happened in my childhood where there had been no-one to rely on and I'd had to sort out situations on my own. A useful mechanism at that time that served me well but that stuck around well beyond the time it was useful.

I worked on this with the counsellor - why being vulnerable with people you trust isn't 'weak', the downsides of always needing to be strong and not ask for help (in my case eventually led to my bipolar disorder causing me to be in a psych hospital because I just 'powered through' or tried to with a 'stiff upper lip' until I broke).

If you tend not to listen, then that's a trait you should change. If you tend to be domineering and railroad over what your husband wants, that should definitely change.

I have no idea what that's got to do with 'emasculation' and 'surrendering to femininity' - all that implies is that women are weak and submissive and men are strong leaders. Surely that's not what you believe?

I suspect that what's going on here is that your husband is a lazy but controlling idiot who doesn't like that you're more successful than him and he's somehow convinced you that the reason he's so pointless is because you don't let him do the fantastic manly things he's destined to do. I predict what will happen when you 'surrender' is that everything will fall apart and it'll still be your fault.

I understand that you may have some communication issues in your marriage, OP, but I don't see how they relate to masculine and feminine roles and why your partner feels that it is your fault that he is feeling emasculated. Could you be more specific?

Why does he want to 'lead'? Can't you both lead?

pencilvester - Yes, we both should lead at different parts and times of our marriage. That's what I want and am asking about. As described in some of my other posts, I find it difficult to allow him to do this and am looking for practical ways that I can start to show some vulnerability and therefore space and opportunities for him to have more of an active role in our marriage.

Sparrowhawk - "Those are things you should change". I have figured this out. In my post I was asking for practical advice for how I actually do this when it feels quite terrifying to let go of that control.

Don't really understand what you will be doing..

Yes you do. It is something Americans have dreamed up. Basically to please a man the woman has to be a doormat, sex on tap, yes dear no dear. Bleurgh! If that was the right way then how come so many women write on here about their husband treating them like shite.

Why does it terrify you to let go of the control?

I don't really get this emphasis on vulnerability. Maybe you're not vulnerable. Why do you have to show you are? Surely you should marry someone where you can be you, and they can be them? Why should either of you change your personality? It's easy to change very specific things, like taking your turn in washing up. But surely your personality is pretty fixed?

If you're being bossy and controlling at home because you're used to having to be like that at work, then yes you need to try and stop doing that. But that has bugger all to do with surrendering to your femininity (wtf?) or with your husband needing to be a hero (double wtf?).

I must admit I find it totally cringeworthy when people talk about their personal relationships as though they are in some kind of management team-building exercise. Be kind to each other, don't be controlling. That just about covers it imo.

Ugh. Feminity and strength are not mutually exclusive concepts.

I suggest you invest in several jars which are hard to open; and say oooh my hero when your husband manages to open them

Develop a fear of spiders and shriek if you see one

If you hear a noise at night; wake him up and ask him what it was (invent a noise if necessary so he feels appreciated and strong)

Study early James bond girls for extra tips on swooning into his manful arms

Alternatively find a man who is not threatened by your strength, who doesn't need you to be vulnerable to feel strong and who appreciates a strong assertive woman (I promise such a man exists)

I suspect that he is feeling controlled/managed more than he is feeling emasculated.

If you're a domineering control freak, then of course you should back off.

But this has nothing that do with masculinity or femininity. It's just a matter of being courteous to your partner.

If he finds the control unpleasant ( and who wouldn't) and you find it exhausting, then it's a no brainer really.

What happened the poster who tried the doirmat treatment?

Lots of men in their 50s and above were brought up in the belief that they would have the upper hand over the women in their life, be that their wife, their coworkers or pretty much anyone else. Some men reach their 50s or so still believing that to be so, despite all sorts of societal messages about equality.

When men discover, late in life, that women are supposed to be their equals, it can be a terrible shock to their ego.

It sounds like you want to 'lessen' yourself so that he can feel like the big man. What will that cost you though? Don't lose yourself to please someone else - you'll regret it eventually.

How about he works on becoming a 'hero' without asking you to compromise who you are? That sounds way better to me.

I work full time and EX had been a stay at home dad for the last 3 years (it happened that I found a good job after we relocated overseas and he didn't even try, that is besides the point because if he was happy with it, I would have been). One of the most insulting things the EA bastard said to me once was "you are so alpha female". He called me this because I am able to adapt to situations, ama strong independent woman who travels all over the world. I am in no way domineering and very much a touchy feely mother.

What pissed me off is that he deemed an alpha female as a negative thing, when it should be a celebrated thing.

He is an Ex now for 6 weeks. He wanted me to be less independent in order to make himself feel more of a man, without actually doing anything to sort himself out.

"Alpha female" is a compliment pudding21!

Glad he's an ex