Caught DH in a lie...

[NoMoreMarbles]

Ok... background first... DH and I have been married for 10 years and together for 13, 1 11yo DD...DH has a history of lying to "get out of trouble"

I feel a little more stable (ish) today- no wild rage just feel sad now but I'm sure that will change again no doubt!

No reply from the OW yet... and H is being ever so attentive and fussing over me

I feel like I'm just going through the motions of things at the minute... I'm not doing too great a job of putting a brace face on as DD seems to have noticed something is upshe is being much less obnoxiously pre-teen and there's much more cuddles coming my way! She's a sweetheart

I was wondering about your DD as I;m sure she's heard what's been going on - kids always know far more than we think they do. Might it be an idea to tell her (without going into too much detail) but probably best to wait until you've decided whether to stay put or go your separate ways. Oh just remembered you're worried about your DD's sats - they're some weeks away aren't they, so you might have made a decision by then.

I don't think you'll get a reply from the OW. I sent a very long letter (14 typed pages) to the OW and ended saying I was willing to talk with her and gave my e mail address and mobile but heard nothing, and I have to say that really pissed me off and that's why I didn't think it was a good idea to send the text.

My P (I might have called him H - we've been together 45 years but never married......) has been attentive and caring in a way that he hasn't been all through our life together. I thought it would last a few weeks but it's gone on since last summer and I can't deny that I find it far more pleasant than the way things were before. Every cloud.......

My Dd asked a couple of questions this morning in a round about way but as if i was the person who would be seeing someone... she said "mum, if you were to go out with someone but not my dad would he be my stepdad?" it was out of the blue and i think she may have overheard H and I discussing things last night after she went to bed

We are going to speak to her tonight and H knows that she may be angry with him etc

I feel a little better again today! my head doesn't know how to feel from one minute to the next and after having a big discussion yesterday i am happier with my decision to see how things go.

However things have happened i do believe him that there was no physical contact but i'm 100% sure that there were lines crossed in the content of the messages and the lying is not acceptable.

He knows in no uncertain terms that if this were ever to happen again then our marriage is over. I cant at this stage just forgive and forget but i'm working on that and have told him it will take time to potentially trust him again.

I really appreciate the help and opinions here

Threads like this are so sad. How any relationship survives serial cheating I don't know.
No trust? Do you seriously think you can get it back? Not for me. Trust is crucial.

You say "He knows in no uncertain terms that if this were ever to happen again then our marriage is over."

It has already happened again. This is the second time he has cheated on you. Why should this time be any different? Because this time he really means it?

What demonstrates to me that he hasn't changed one jot is that he is still refusing to show you his phone. The only possible reason for that is that their relationship was deeper and more physical than what he has told you.

The fact that he has made you go to his OW begging for answers is an absolute piss-take. He has driven your self-esteem into the ground. One day you will look back at this time and be steaming mad with yourself for even entertaining his BS. I hope you can find the strength to see him for what he is.

Marbles I think you're likely to get some tough words on here now that you're willing to give him yet another chance......
Ultimately it's down to you. He must be some catch if he's dodged yet another bullet x
You do know you deserve better right?

What @psmith12 said

I've posted on these type of threads before ,cheating, gambling, constantly lying about everything and nothing. All I can say is take each day and each emotion as it comes, and you will know when the time is right to make a decision... in my experience there is only one decision to be made but you need to do it when you are ready. noone deserves to be treated like this. When I had a wobble (there were probably only about three TBH) I thought, my son needs to know that no matter what, if your unhappy in your relationship, you can always leave and no one can make you stay. I also didn't want him growing up thinking a normal relationship is one where there is no affection. So maybe think about the example you might be setting for your daughter, that may or may not help. Wish you the best and eventual peace of mind from all this x x

You haven't even let him think seriously for a minute that you'll leave him.

A bit of begging from him and it's all almost back to business as usual, till the next time.

He knows in no uncertain terms that if this were ever to happen again then our marriage is over

So last time, you weren't that clear the marriage would be over if he did it again?

May I suggest you show him the following:

The steps a WS must take for a reconciliation.

Not all of them are required in every situation but, you get the idea:

1. S/He must be totally honest with you about everything
2. S/He must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully.
3. S/He must do everything in his power to prove to you that you are the one that he wants to be with.
4. S/He must prove his love to you...he must be patient, gentle, compassionate and understanding.
5. S/He must feel your pain.
6. S/He must fully understand the devastation that he caused you.
7. S/He must accept full responsibility for his actions.
8. S/He must stop all contact with OP and not try to protect them.
9. S/He must reassure you that it is OK to ask questions.

10. S/He must reassure you that you will not drive him away by doing the things that are necessary to heal. 11. S/He must recognize when your struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you. 12. S/He must be able to tell you how sorry he is and show you. 13. S/He must re-enforce to you, that you are not responsible. 14. S/He must put his own feelings of guilt and shame aside and help you heal first. 15. S/He must reconnect emotionally, mentally, and physically with you and stay connected. 16. S/He must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy. 17. S/He must be willing to seek counseling. 18. S/He must learn what is and is not acceptable when communicating with the opposite sex...he must establish boundaries and not cross them.

Sorry to say, but once the trust has gone, the marriage is over surely?
He's a deceitful man who is not worthy of you. Sure he'll cry and beg. It clearly means nothing.
Seriously, don't waste your time on him.

Why would you do all this without proper evidence?. Currently he can reveal to you whatever suits him. I bet he's been emailing too. Or Whatsapp. Etc.
I would need to know exactly what stage they had really got too. Texts with lots of kisses sound like way past the flirting stage.
Put yourself first.

I never understand why on these threads so many posters are advising/demanding that she LTB. I just don't get it - it's the OP's life, not any of us - yes we can give our point of view but so many posts are clearly annoyed that the OP is probably going to stay together with her H and telling her she should leave, the trust has gone, he's a liar and a cheat etc etc and what would be a dealbreaker for them. The OP knows only too well what has happened and I'm sure she realises that there will be trust issues.

Sandy you seem cross - saying "a bit of begging from him and it all back to business as usual" - you simply don't know what has gone on and what discussions OP and her H have had- and those 16 conditions - phew - yes ok some might be relevant. The thing is all that we know about this post (and any others) is reading a few lines of text on a screen.

WHY can't people be satisfied that the OP and her H or P have made a decision to stay together. I got slaughtered on one thread for swimming against the tide, and personal insults were thrown at me.

The other thing is none of us (including the OP) know how things will pan out in the future. I started talking to a woman who was living with a horrendously difficult man and she had 3 young children. We started to PM and other women on MN started to talk to her too. It was a very bad situation but she couldn't get it together to leave and there were practical considerations too. She started a FB group with about 4 or 5 of us, and we talked for many months. It took her 15 months to leave, and she's never looked back. It was a very complicated business (don't want to say anything more as I might out her) but nonetheless the LTBs were out in force and when she was not moving out they started to get insulting as is usually the case.

Can anyone explain why posters get annoyed if the woman doesn't LTB - I seriously would like to know as I don't get it. There have been cases where I have told the OP she should leave and it's when children are involved -mother's boyfriend being heavy handed with a 2 year old and mother is minimising it - posts like that really worry me as the mother is failing to protect the child. Other than that women are adults who will read replies but will make up her own mind. Isn't that how it should be?

bagalbaby this thread isn't about what you would need to know - it's about the OP's situation and it's her decision what she needs to know.

You bet he's been e mailing too and having whatsapp chats but you don't know that and neither do any of us. Can you not credit the OP with enough sense to make sure she knows exactly what has been going on in relation to communication and I'm sure there will be ongoing discussions between them about this episode.

Thanks catrina

I have seen his phone and the messages were on WhatsApp and were deleted by him in "panic" there were no emails/phone calls from what I could find on either his personal or work phone.

I have decided not to immediately jump to leaving TB as I have my DD to consider and regardless of what I feel SHE comes first and I have to take time to make a decision- the most important decision that will change our lives entirely. My H, however much he has hurt me, is her dad and they are like peas in a pod! I can't just burst her bubble because I'm hurt. It has to be a decision made without clouding it with anger.

That being said, I'm taking things a day at a time and it's very early days yet so I am keeping my options open... I'm very up and down and don't know what I want or need at the minute so I doubt any major, life-changing decisions would be made with the right considerations right now.

Thanks for the different opinions and advice

Over the next few weeks, see a solicitor and work out exactly how things would be if you ended it. If you don't need to use the plan you don't have to use it. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

If OW hasn't contacted you back, I expect that's because she's been fed the usual story about poor him trapped with the mentally unstable wife who he stands by because he's a such great guy.

Catrina, I've no reason to be cross. .not sure why you think that. I'm merely expressing my opinion based on the info given.

When it comes to evidence. ..nobody here has evidence of what he's done. ..that doesn't mean we don't have an opinion or we'd all say zilch.

I come from a place of experience in what many many WSs have told me. In that they carried on because they knew/thought their husband or wife was never going to leave.

That's what gave them the impudence to carry on.

Whatever the OP decides will not affect me one way or another, I'm just trying to assist with providing additional info as she's staying for the meanwhile.

It's much more helpful for posters to respond to the OP and not focus on what others are saying. Bear in mind that nobody's view trumps another on here. ..far better to voice your own view and move on.

It might be handy to know that most phones automatically back up whatsapp conversations periodically and even give the option of archiving chats rather than completely deleting them, so there's every chance you could get the messages back if you wanted to OP.

In your shoes, I think the very least I would need is full disclosure of what had occurred before I could decide whether to stay or go. Without that the uncertainty would just eat away at me and there's zero chance I'd be able to trust again without knowing what I'm forgiving in the first place.

My story is not dissimilar to yours. It seems my husband has lied a lot over the last few years, mainly about small things, but lies nonetheless. His behavior changed around July of last year and I knew something was not right with him. Just like your husband, after being confronted over and over again, he admitted he started smoking again, after years of not smoking. I was angry at him for started smoking again and for lying to me about it, but on the other hand I was relieved as I thought this explained his weird behavior. Fast forward to November of last year and I found out that actually he been having an affair.

We are trying to work it out, but who knows whether we will manage to. One thing he has said to me is the fact that he was a habitual liar, was partly what made the affair possible. He knew he could look me in the eye and lie to me, because he was so practiced at it.

He is having counseling at the moment and facing his lying is something he's having to deal with. it is not easy, because when you've been a liar for years like he has, lies can come out his mouth without him even thinking about it. It's difficult. But I would recommend that if you guys do try to stay together he needs to look at his lying. among other things, obviously.

Like you I'm just taking it one day at a time, I'm not promising anything, but I don't want to make any rash decisions either. Take things at your pace and take care of yourself. Only you can decide what you want going forward. I completely understand the position you're in right now I want to send you a virtual hug. It is hard :(

Oh, and he needs to realize that you need the whole truth about what has been going on, not 'trickle truth'. The Surviving Infidelity website and forums has been really useful...I regularly get DH to read posts or articles from there that explain how I feel better than I can. There is a forum for cheating spouses on there also and he was shocked at how he was just like those other men and women...not special, not with some great excuse for why he did what he did.

My uneasiness about your posts is the language you use to describe his dishonesty, deleting his history is a panic response as opposed to covering his tracks.. It sounds like you are still in denial and that is your prerogative, for some it works for them but it comes with a heavy price.

At the end of the day only he can change his behaviour and nothing you've written has suggested that he really really gets it, let alone do the work to address it.