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Relationships

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Original poster

Listing where I want our relationship to be

144 replies

HarmlessChap · 18/02/2017 14:45

I've made a list of objectives of what I think a happy and healthy relationship should be.

The bullet points of which are:-
Kindness
Friendship
Unprompted affection and declarations of love
Physical contact
Regular sex.

This is primarily to focus my mind and give myself some clarity on where I want our relationship to get to and I've gone into detail of how I define each point and where I see we are currently, but no suggestions of how to achieve it.

Would you give such a list to your DP or do you think it would it come across as passive aggressive?

I'm thinking of giving it to her and asking her to do the same and give to me.

OP posts:

Ellisandra · 18/02/2017 15:36

To be fair, the OP does want more sex and the backstory (such as I am aware of from recent posts I recall) does lead me to have some sympathy for that. Not sympathy that his wife should have sex - no-one should. But sympathy that he doesn't want to be in a sexless marriage.

I think, that rather than the first things being fillers before getting to the real desire, OP is trying to reassure his wife that the friendship they do have is important to him. But yeah, sex is the nitty gritty here - and for many, a relationship with no sex, is one that isn't working. There's a difference between wanting a bit more sex, and wanting sex at all.

OP - no to the list. It really won't help. I can't remember if you're in counselling together? If you are, exploring what you want from a relationship in a guided, safe, supportive environment could help. Lists will not. If she doesn't want to have sex with you, a list telling her you want sex is not going to change her mind.

Ellisandra · 18/02/2017 15:39

I agree with Umpty that all these things are on my list. And I've had that sort of conversation early days with my current partner. But it's fine in the context of a new relationship - he knows I like cuddles, I know he prefers not to snog too obviously in public
But it's not fine in the context of a failing marriage.

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 15:40

Yes but would you have presented that list to each new partner and said "can you agree to this?"

No, but I have discussed what I want from a relationship with men I've dated.

I went on a couple of dates with one man who made sure I knew that sex wasn't important to him. I didn't see him again because it is important to me.

I wouldn't have a ticklist that I expected someone to agree to, per se, but if a conversation revealed some pretty big incompatabilities, e.g. if I met someone who wanted children, or had no problem with having a couple of credit cards with a few grand debt on them, or only ate steak and chips (all men I have met), then that would indicate to me that there would be problems down the line.

I think that if you're in a sexless marriage that's falling apart and the intention is to 'repair' it, then it isn't unreasonable to set out your stall and say what you want your relationship to look like. It's then up to the other person to say, "I see that, but I can't fulfill it" or "yes, that's what I want too".

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 15:43

I don't think it is a problem presenting it in a failing marriage. If both people are open and honest about what they do and don't want, then it makes it easier to see if a resolution is likely or not.

OneWithTheForce · 18/02/2017 15:44

No, but I have discussed what I want from a relationship with men I've dated.

I went on a couple of dates with one man who made sure I knew that sex wasn't important to him. I didn't see him again because it is important to me.

See that's what I think should happen. You decided not to see him again. You didn't keep on seeing him then put this list to him and expect him to agree.

Of course Op is in a LTR and things change. Discussions about what isn't working are necessary and what both parties think needs to happen to feel like the relationship is worth keeping. But a list? Like ordering off a menu? It just seems wrong.

fc301 · 18/02/2017 15:47

I guess the point I was trying to make was that agreeing to be obligated to provide 'regular sex' is a passion killer in the extreme.

Ellisandra · 18/02/2017 15:50

I agree that honesty and openness makes resolution more likely.
But I think if you've reached the point of thinking of giving a list, you're not in the open and honest place where a list would help.

Maybe with a counsellor both being asked to say "top 3 things - discuss" there'd be a way forward, but I don't see a list helping.

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 15:50

Well I suppose you need to start the discussion somewhere. Maybe a list seems a bit cold, like a 'list of requirements if you want to keep me', but at the same time, what's the alternative?

When it's got to a make or break situation, you might as well be honest.

Things do change in a LTR, but I would still walk away if it had changed and we were no longer compatible.

It seems a bit harsh to view it as "this is what I want and you must agree" but it's the caveat of, "this is what I want my relationship to look like, if you don't, then we really need to reconsider...."

wherearemymarbles · 18/02/2017 15:51

Harmless, you've knocked around here long enough to know that a man mentioning sex as something to get on top of is never going to end well.

But having read you other posts I would agree with umptflumb and draw up a list of reasons why you actually want to stay with your wife. Are you just being stubborn??

Maybe get rid of the last 3 and list emotional and physical intimacy under one heading.

Only you know how your wife would respond to this type of approach - but it does seem a bit business like!!

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 15:51

fc301 but regular might be "once a month". It doesn't have to mean, "every Friday during Corrie" or whatever...

And all relationships ebb and flow sexually, but sexless is a different matter altogether.

EchidnasPhone · 18/02/2017 15:54

See I'm someone who would rather a list. That's the way I work. Black & white with a set of wants would be perfect for opening conversation. Takes the guess work out of it. I wouldn't be offended but may be in the minority. In comparison my DH must think I have the ability to read minds as he doesn't communicate at all.

Somerville · 18/02/2017 15:55

The things in your list we're much more specific though flump.
It's the way this list has the general vagaries of kindness and friendship and then launches into detail only when it come to physical intimacy. It does make the former two look like they're either there because he thinks they should be (at worst), or (probably more likely) that he is putting a lot more thought into the kind of physical intimacy he wants than the kind of friendship he wants and the ways he wants to mutually express kindness to each other.

Kindness and friendship would be on almost everyone's list of 5 things they want in a fulfilled relationship, to the point that they are cliches. So Harmless I think you should put more thought into expanding how you really want to experience and express friendship and kindness (aside from sodding sex!!). But for yourself - I still don't think you should show the list to your wife unless it come up in counselling.

Somerville · 18/02/2017 15:57

Were not we're

TheElephantofSurprise · 18/02/2017 15:58

Oh, for heaven's sake, if you're making a list at least make it an honest one! What you mean is:

1 Regular sex. ['Regular' being defined as 'when, where and how you want it']
2 Physical contact leading to 'regular', ie virtually constant, sex
3 Unprompted affection and declarations of love leading to 'regular', ie virtually constant, sex
4 Kindness and friendship [not really, but I thought I'd soften you up with that before getting to the point].

Hope that helps.

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 15:59

EchidnasPhone

I would also rather have a list. I know what I'm dealing with then. Otherwise, I've got to try and make sense of other people and that's the hard bit!

wherearemymarbles · 18/02/2017 16:00

For the other posters, iirc op and his wife had sex 3 times right at the begining of last year. There are plenty of threads started by women in sexless marriages and they tend to get empathy and LTB advise.

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 16:01

I must just have utterly failed at being a human being.

Because I really do not read "affection" and "unprompted physical contact" as euphemisms for "constant sex"

Somerville · 18/02/2017 16:05

And if you are absolutely insistent on sharing a list with your wife, make it achingly specific about her and your relationship.

So, if I were writing this for my DH then rather than list the generalisation of 'spending more time together' I might say: "Increasing the amount of evenings when we turn off the TV and snuggle on the sofa listening to music and chatting."
Do you get what I mean? Make sure she recognises your relationship, when it's been at its best, in that list. Not generic things that everyone wants but mean totally different thing to different people.

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 16:05

That's a very good point, Somerville

OneWithTheForce · 18/02/2017 16:07

I don't know, it just kind of comes across to me as something that will be used to beat the other party round the head with when they reject sex or a cuddle or whatever. I would be very wary of something like this and my head would be screaming "you're being manipulated here"

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 16:23

I suppose it depends whether it's intended/heard as

"This is what I need to meet my needs and to feel fulfilled in a relationship"

"This is what I expect from you"

Because the former is perfectly acceptable, the second isn't, but at least it does give the other person the opportunity to say, "well I don't want to do it" and then you have a clearer decision to make.

Original poster

HarmlessChap · 18/02/2017 16:25

OK so I'm a laughing stock. Great.

As for sex we've not DTD since June and we've had sex about 6 times in the last 5 years so its hardly a requirement but it would nice is to have sex every month or so. The list is in order of importance and sex is at the bottom of the list. The 1st 2 we are at the rest we are not at so there is a long way to go before we get to looking at sex TBH.

My reason for writing things down is I find it gives clarity. I thought that it might be good to share that with my DW, clearly I was wrong, just as well I asked.

OP posts:

OneWithTheForce · 18/02/2017 16:26

What makes you think you're a laughing stock?

HesAnUmptyFlump · 18/02/2017 16:28

No, HarmlessChap, I don't think you're wrong. You've been here long enough to know how some women on here would respond to a thread that mentions sex.

FWIW, you know her, you know if it will work. I wouldn't be offended, not if I were being sincere about working through things. It's just an opening gambit really, is't it?

OneWithTheForce · 18/02/2017 16:30

You could always approach your wife and suggest she writes her own list and then show your lists at the same time.

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