Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH - incompetence or malice?

170 replies

newnamenewnamenewname · 17/02/2017 23:44

Name changed for obvious reasons...

It's not really a relationship question but I'm not strong enough for AIBU and I don't really know where it fits. I don't need relationship advice exactly just an opinion on this...

DH can't handle checking details, he often makes mistakes. But he can also lie and be manipulative.

Recent examples: No one watches Sky in our house so we decided to cancel it. It's in DH's name so he had to do it. He instead signed up for the basic package because "otherwise we can't get BBC". True, we don't have an aerial but you get BBC if you are churning. He just doesn't research or check things. On the other hand, in the same week he happily admitted to "screwing someone over a bit" (someone who works for us).

I don't want to influence people so I am going to set out the bare basics.

He set up a new business for us in November. The new business is based in an area of expertise that is my field but he also has some skills. We have an old business in a related field that we both have skills in but it is declining and not doing well. We own it 50:50.

In January, he closed the old business. He then needed to set up a bank account for the new business. He signed my signature for convenience. He told me he had signed after he had done it. He's signed things for me before.

Nothing arrived for me for the new bank account. I called the bank to ask why and they said that I was an "authority" on the account but not a signatory. DH says that he thought he the forms he had signed my name on made me a signatory. Having requested a copy of the forms, it is clear to anyone that reads the small print that is not the case. Except he doesn't read things...

Then I checked Companies House. I only have class B shares in the new company. He owns all the class A shares. I am company secretary. He is the only director.

I confronted him about the bank account. He was confused as to why I wasn't a signatory and said it was a mistake - he was in a rush when he did it. He pointed out that he had told the bank that I am company secretary so clearly he wasn't hiding anything, he had made things the same as they were with the other company. So I asked him about how he had set up the new company. His reply was "it's 50:50. Well, not 50:50, 'they" don't like that any more so I had to set it up with class A and Class B shares, that's how it's done now, but you can set them up so they have the same rights". He said that is what what the formation company who set it up advised him. I read to him from our company formation documents on Companies House, which doesn't give the class shares equal rights. He then said, "that's not how I did it, you can set them up differently" so I pointed out that it was our docs I was reading from. His reply was that he didn't tell them to do that, he'd had to speak to different people to do what he wanted because they didn't understand, they were multiple phone calls and an email because they didn't understand what he wanted, they must have got it wrong. He then said "I did it that way because you said you don't want liability". I didn't say that but I did say I was unhappy about things he had done with the old company without my knowledge.

I called the formation company. They seemed surprised that any of their staff would have said that 50:50 share distributions weren't normal as that is quite common.

Sorry for rambling. Please be objective, don't read between the lines to look for motivations. On the basic evidence, just what he said, do you think he is lying?

OP posts:
DrMorbius · 18/02/2017 09:49

DrMorbius life mantra number 3- in life once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time it's enemy action. Only you know Op but I suspect there has been more than three occasions he has "done you".

WhooooAmI24601 · 18/02/2017 09:52

I agree with DrMorbius. Hugely.

DH and I own a business. There's no "I own this much you own that but I'm the main shareholder". Everything is a 50/50 split. I'm part of the business, I helped set it up, I do a huge amount towards it (I also teach) and am entitled to be recognised as such. If DH pulled this I'd phone the bank and inform them he'd signed my name fraudulently and let them deal with the fall-out. Your DH isn't acting in the best interests of anyone but himself. That's not the action of someone who's giving you respect.

Kewcumber · 18/02/2017 10:04

Pretty much what goodnessidontknow Sat 18-Feb-17 09:06:58 said.

It isn't clear from your posts whether the A and B shares have different rights but you can check in the mem and arts or on Companies House under the description. The Companies House beta service is very good.

I too am extremely skeptical that a company formation business would give advice on how to structure a company - it's usually a low cost mechanical service.

I actually did laugh out loud at the idea of Companies House "not liking" something that's legal. How does that work then? "We know you're allowed to do this technically but we'd really rather you didn't. Why? Oh ummmmmm... no reason really just it doesn't look pretty"

As Company secretary you are an officer of the company and therefore have certain responsibilities (more limited than a director but still...) and virtually no control. So tell him you are resigning as Company Secretary - send a paper form filled in to Companies House if you don't have the authentication code to change it online.

Then tell him that you will not be working for the new company until:

1 - you are a signatory on the account - easily changed
2 - that you are sure that the A and B shares have totally equal rights to receive dividends and vote (seems unlikley but possible)

I would then tell him that if he signs on your behalf again you will report him to the bank and the police.

You are an adult and seemingly senior enough to be a director of another company - you will have no defence whatsoever if either through malice or incompetence he does something he shouldn't perhaps using your name. No one will believe you weren't a party to it as you have seemingly condoned such behaviour for years. This has to stop.

Whether he is lying or incompetent is irrelevant (for these purposes) you are on notice that he has form for doing this kind of thing.

In your position I would set up my own company with total control and bill anything necessary through that (don't pay a company formation company it's easy enough to do online and costs about £15).

Then once you've found out about the relative rights of the A and B shares you will be able to confront him - if the A & B shares have different voting or dividend rights then I would say malice if the same rights then I would say incompetence with the lie about the advice from the company formation company just as a cover up.

Good luck.

Kewcumber · 18/02/2017 10:05

Oh and 3) that you are appointed as a director.

Though as I said I would personally set up my own company - I would not want to be tied to him in business.

Smurfy23 · 18/02/2017 10:11

There are too many mistakes in his benefit for it to be accidental...

Damselindestress · 18/02/2017 10:14

What is the advantage for you of being in business with him when he's either incompetent or a liar (and I'm pretty sure it's the latter), admits engaging in dishonest practices like forging signatures and screwing people over, which will reflect on you and has set everything up so you have less power even though you have more experience? Surely you'd be better off running a business on your own? Sounds like he's just holding you back.

tribpot · 18/02/2017 10:16

Yes, wholeheartedly agree with Kewcumber. You said The new business is based in an area of expertise that is my field but he also has some skills. - so why the hell isn't it your company and not his?

Kewcumber · 18/02/2017 10:17

I read to him from our company formation documents on Companies House, which doesn't give the class shares equal rights. He then said, "that's not how I did it, you can set them up differently" so I pointed out that it was our docs I was reading from.

I missed this Shock

He is a big liar liar pants on fire.

The easiest way to set a company up - "please set up the company with 50% of the shares to me and 50% to my wife". They will have emails from him saying something different. He will even have had to have specified what rights he wanted the B shares to have because there isn't some kind of default for what any rights "B" shares have.

It's easy enough for you to each transfer 50% of your shareholding to the other so you each own 50% of each class.

Personally I wouldn't want to - I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him in business and I would certainly be reconsidering my personal relationship with someone who wants financial control over me and (even worse to me) thinks I'm too stupid to notice.

You sound very clued up OP. You already have the evidence that he's lying - even the company who set your company up has confirmed it - what more evidence do you need?

Lillygolightly · 18/02/2017 10:17

No this is NOT innocent

He has given you half the responsibility and none of the control or very little of it. He has accidentally made you company secretary and not a signitary, oh and class B shares as well....nah I don't think so. Funny how the mistakes make it all in his favour, you would think if they were genuine that some of them would be mistakes that put things in your favour not his.

I would be very wary of this, as the only signitary on the account he can do pretty much what he wants with it, he can write cheques, transfer funds, withdraw cash etc without needing a co signature or any authority from you.

He may genuinely be a bit impulsive and incompetent in most areas of life but not with what you've described no. There is s thread on here about incompetent husbands, you might find that illuminating...highlights the difference between genuine incompetence and feigned incompetence.

NettleTea · 18/02/2017 11:43

Class A shares give you voting rights, class B shares give you a 'share' of the business, so he has set it up that although you have the same 'share' in the business, he is completely in charge of the whole shebang and can male all decisions unilaterally

ElBandito · 18/02/2017 11:47

Malice. I would not be investing any time or money in the new business until his conniving had been rectified. In fact i think I would be insisting that cheques required both signatories and that I had 51% of the shares considering I was the one with the skill set.

ElBandito · 18/02/2017 11:49

Oh, and if you don't share money then he pays out of his own account to sort everything out.
Or I'd set up my own company on my own and leave him to it.

RedastheRose · 18/02/2017 11:56

As others have said, all the 'mistakes' are in his favour. From your original post this new company is actually more yours than his so you have lions share of responsibility as it is based on your skill set, he gets shares and company set up in his favour! He would have actually have to ask for it to be done like that (they most definitely would not have done this by accident) so he knew what he was doing and did it behind your back. Allowing him to sign your signature is a massive red flag as well. He could as easily sign it on documents taking out debt in your name alone! I assume you know that as you are an intelligent person.

HolgerDanske · 18/02/2017 11:59

Dodgy as fuck. I'd be disengaging myself, if I'm honest.

Get the police involved if you have to.

Start your own business on your own.

Olddear · 18/02/2017 11:59

He happily admitted to screwing someone over a bit!! You do see he's quite happy to screw you over too? hes a liar.......he knows exactly what he's doing!

ijustwannadance · 18/02/2017 12:20

I wouldn't trust this man at all.
I also wouldn't stay married to him.

What he did was deliberate. You know this. They question is why? You have no control. He is up to no good. What are the financial implications for you?

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 18/02/2017 12:33

Why do you let him sign things on your behalf?

PaterPower · 18/02/2017 12:53

I'm trending toward malice/lying too for the same reasons as kewcumber and other pps have set out.

It would probably worry me enough that I'd take pp's suggestion to pull out of the venture altogether. It's not a great start to something which has the potential to wipe you out financially and damage your professional reputation.

He has a track record of deceitful behaviour and/or incompetence - the end result can be the same either way. IMO the test would be: would you be taking this same risk if he were an unrelated third party?

Clutterbugsmum · 18/02/2017 12:54

You need to let Companies House and the bank that he has fraudulently signed your name to these legal documents, otherwise YOU are going to be the one with the debt and he is going to get away with paying nothing.

I also think you need to do a credit check on your name to see if he has taken any other credit in your name.

newnamenewnamenewname · 18/02/2017 13:06

Pretty unanimous then.

Yes, I think he is lying and it was deliberate. I always start to doubt myself though and feel bad. It's pretty horrific to accuse someone of fraud if it actually is a genuine mistake.

He's signed the papers to add me as a signatory at the bank now. As for the company, I'm not sure I even want to be a part of the business. I'm terrified of what else he might be up to. He hasn't actually agreed to change it but he ended the argument "I'm too busy working, if you're so clever, you fucking sort it out".

The marriage is over. I've had enough. He's a nasty bully. When I left after the argument he told me not to come back in his office or he would spit in my face. I didn't want to say that because I knew everyone would jump to the obvious conclusion that it was deliberate. I needed to remove that seed of doubt he put in my mind that it was an honest mistake.

Yes, he has tried to screw me over before. This time, if it is deliberate, is different though which is why I need to be sure. He didn't bully me into doing something I don't want to do or lie to get me to do what he wants, it's full on black and white fraud.

OP posts:
PhilODox · 18/02/2017 13:17

I'm so sorry, that sounds intolerable. I wish you well Thanks

RandomMess · 18/02/2017 13:20

Guess you need to see if you can just resign as secretary and that is that...

Is there any money in the business accounts that should be 50% yours?

I think you need to see a solicitor and fast. I would be seriously tempted to report the fraudulent signature although you have clearly known for a while and done nothing so that could be a bad move...

tribpot · 18/02/2017 13:23

It's pretty horrific to accuse someone of fraud if it actually is a genuine mistake.
But he openly admitted to forging your signature. There is no grey area.

When I left after the argument he told me not to come back in his office or he would spit in my face.
I can understand why you left that out of your post in order to keep people focused on the deceit in your business and not the abuse in your relationship.

You need to get out of the company as soon as possible, and as Clutterbug says, do a thorough credit check to see what else he may have signed in your name. You may not be able to protect your finances without going to the police so you have a record of the fact you are the victim of fraud.

newnamenewnamenewname · 18/02/2017 13:23

To answer everyone's questions:

I already checked the land registry and my credit record as soon as I found out about the shares.

I don't let him sign on my behalf. He just does it. The first instances were years ago when we needed two signatories for cheques. I found a blank cheque in the company cheque book with my signature forged. He admitted that he had been signing my name when I was away if he needed to pay a bill and it couldn't wait for my return. I told him not to do it any more. He didn't do it for his gain, there was nothing untoward about it back then.

He has done it more recently knowing that I would not be happy. I got cross but in my heart I knew that even if he hadn't done it, I would have given in eventually and signed it myself against my will. I had severe depression and anxiety and I couldn't hold out any longer, I had been refusing for months. I didn't do anything about it because DS would never have forgiven me. DS was completely under his spell. Now he sees through his dad's lies.

OP posts:
newnamenewnamenewname · 18/02/2017 13:27

tribpot - he admits to forging my signature but "for my benefit". He says he thought the forms made both of us signatories.

OP posts: