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Original poster

Sperm donors mother wants to be involved

106 replies

Billi77 · 01/02/2017 15:57

Hello. I will try and keep this brief. In short I have a beautiful 8 month old DD and a DP. She was conceived at home using AI with a gay friend who lives in Italy. We drew up an agreement together before she was born saying we had no joint custody and I had sole responsibility but he was entitled to visit every couple of months. fast forward to her (difficult C section) birth and his first visit when I was in hospital. His mother was on the speaker phone telling me what I should or shouldn't do! Thankfully the morphine muffled her but the alarm bells were ringing. He stayed a week and I let him visit every day and he'd FaceTime his family without asking me. I had told him I didn't want them at the birth and he didn't bring them. But they came a few weeks later and the mother was in uber Italian mother in law mode. Coral gifts from her friends, the works. I politely endured her, her daughter, his charmless niece and his boyfriend (whom the mother wouldn't let hold my DD because it was charmless niece's turn!). He's been with his BF for 9 years..... it seems they are using my DD to heterosexualise her father. And I feel they are guilt tripping him and he's doing this out of guilt or perhaps to appease them in some way.
He's been visiting more than every couple of months and keeps doing the FaceTime thing.
He then wanted to come again with his family at Christmas and I said no.
Now I've buckled and he's coming with his mother (not his BF) next weekend. Guilt trips are contagious.
So I need advice. Am I being unreasonable or am I being over accommodating? What would you do if you'd unwittingly inherited an Italian mother in law?
Am having huge anxiety over all of this and feel like it was my own stupid fault for lacking foresight.

OP posts:
Original poster
Billi77 · 11/02/2017 15:06

She does but has rewritten the narrative it seems, for her own bigoted convenience. That said, am grinning and bearing her this weekend and he is being lovely and even making fun of her with me. That and all this response have been v helpful in lightening the load.she has been AWFUL. Even if she were my MIL it would be a nightmare. Thank god for laughter.

OP posts:
allegretto · 11/02/2017 15:18

I feel for you. My Italian ex's brother is gay and his mother completely ignored this and, despite the fact that he was living with his boyfriend, was always trying to set him up with women. It was a tad bizarre.

Original poster
Billi77 · 11/02/2017 21:15

Oh dear.... Denial is a powerful force it seems

OP posts:
crabbied · 11/02/2017 21:29

Such a difficult situation. I know though if one of my sons were to be gay and in the situation you describe I would be very sad to have no involvement.

Prettybaffled · 12/02/2017 00:07

Very impressed that you are seeing the funny side where you can op Flowers

Keep posting if it helps!

Pinbasket · 12/02/2017 02:29

You need to sort out the basis of what dad's relationship is going to be, with his daughter, if not just a sperm donor, and what he sees as reasonable contact. If he's going to be fully involved with her, then you also need to consider whether he makes regular financial contributions.
Some aspects of your situation are similar to my circumstances with dd. I would advise taking it very slowly and not agreeing to loads of contact initially- it's very hard to lessen it if need be in the future, so better to see how it goes, and gradually increase it if all is well. Build in the ability to regularly review the amount of contact as needs of dd will probably change as your child becomes older. I'd be careful of making contact times on actual birthdays and at christmas as this can be too intrusive if you maintain more of a sperm donor relationship. If more on the the level of a father, then you may need to consider that father having alternate custody of her over these times. I'd strongly advise that you try to speak to other families in this sort of situation, as it has the potential to get very messy indeed. Already, the father has turned it into something very different to what was initially agreed. I hope it turns out well though.

DanGleballs · 12/02/2017 03:33

No one has a right to contact with a child legally, the child has the right to contact with adults. Contact has to be in the best interests of the child. The child is being brought up by two mothers. Sperm donor's insistant mother having contact would surely confuse the child and interfere with the relationship between the parents and child. I can't see a judge ordering regular contact as being in the best interests of the child. This is all about Granny. She needs to accept that this child was the product of sperm donation and has two loving parents neither of which is her son.

life07 · 12/02/2017 08:30

What's best for your child OP and not you.

christmaswreaths · 12/02/2017 08:49

I am Italian and can say this us pretty normal behaviour for nonna especially with a first grandchild. Men tend to be worried about upsetting their mums, so you don't know how much he has told her about the arrangement he has with you. She will see herself as her Grandma no matter what.

Family us incredibly important to Italians and this from what you have described is normal behaviour.

I would consider that your child might want to explore their heritage further growing up so speaking Italian and having an Italian family to visit might become important (assuming they are a nice family)

Original poster
Billi77 · 12/02/2017 10:27

She is a nightmare but I would never stop DD from seeing them if she a) wanted to and b) is old enough to.. As for her biological father, when she starts asking questions, I will tell her who he is and the absolute truth. I wanted a known donor in case of this very eventuality
I do at the same time hope she knows where her immediate family starts and ends, which is here with me and my partner.

OP posts:
Original poster
Billi77 · 12/02/2017 10:29

pinbasket may I ask what your circumstances are with DD father?
And thanks everyone for the advice and knowledge.
I am going to see them today for lunch and then have a long chat with him in the aftermath to clarify stuff using her behaviour as an example.

OP posts:
Cakingbad · 12/02/2017 10:34

This situation would make a great film! Hope it all works out for you, OP. She's a lucky girl having so many people to love her - even if it is a bit more than you bargained for.

HerrenaHarridan · 12/02/2017 10:54

The more people who are invested in you dds well being the greater her chances in life.

It sounds like a pain in the arse, you just want to enjoy your baby and that's fine.

She won't be a baby forever however before you know it she will be a real actual person, making sense of this crazy world.

Her grandmothers underlying homophobia, as long as it's not overt and abusive, will not be inherently damaging to her.

Talking it through with her, letting her see the strategies you use to put it down will equip her to deal with it in strangers when the time comes and come it will.

My advice to you is to sit down with your partner and work out a contact agreement your happy with.
The courts are unlikely to get involved while some access is granted.

I would agree that sperm donor can visit say 3 times a year, on 1 of those occasion he can bring his family. Face time can happen on the others. To be reviewed in three years.

BeThereOnTheDouble · 12/02/2017 12:17

Billi - I can't quite tell from your posts if you consider your partner to be your child's mother (to an equal extent you are)?

Prettybaffled · 12/02/2017 17:24

Op/her dp may not be ready to take the huge step of her partner having PR and there is the issue that bio father maybe wouldn't agree. Plus the benefit of dc having contact with bio family on both sides is very well researched when it comes to adopted children certainly. What would be the benefit to op's dd of that arrangement anyway, while her df wants to be involved?

Op I think you are doing exactly the right thing in encouraging visits and tolerating 'mil'!

Therealloislane · 12/02/2017 17:48

Does he pay child maintenance?

I'm assuming not as he's referred to as a spermicide donor.

Therealloislane · 12/02/2017 17:48

sperm Grin

Gini99 · 12/02/2017 18:23

Billi, you sound as if you are being really sensitive and child-centred in a difficult situation. I hope that the lunch today has helped and clarified what he wants from the situation and how it can best be managed.

She needs to accept that this child was the product of sperm donation and has two loving parents neither of which is her son. Dangleballs I think that is not the right way to view this. Legally* and biologically the child has a mother and a father. Legally it's not sperm donation but parenthood. From what I understand of what the OP had said then her relationship with her DP is a relatively new relationship and subsequent to her DD being conceived (and born?) so the DP is not legally a parent and the OP is sensibly cautious about moving to her DP being in a formal parental role as she says "it's a fairly young relationship so feels like too much of a commitment too soon". So really, legally, this is the same as if the OP had accidentally got pg in a quick fling with a friend and then got into a new relationship whilst pregnant/soon after birth. That means that if he wants to get involved then he could apply for PR etc fairly easily in just the same way as any other father could and regardless of whether he is paying maintenance. It also means that the OP can't just dictate everyone's roles or appoint her DP into a parental role to the exclusion of the father (not that the OP is doing that herself but some seem to be advising her to act in this way).

The OP sounds as if she is very sensibly trying to manage relationships that could become very difficult if they fracture.

*Of course it's not possible to definitively say the legal situation from internet posts but it looks this way from all the info posted here. I am sure the OP will take legal advice if it becomes relevant.

Original poster
Billi77 · 12/02/2017 18:44

Thanks Gini99 that's fairly spot on :)

OP posts:
Original poster
Billi77 · 12/02/2017 18:45

And he's not paying maintenance...

OP posts:
Gini99 · 12/02/2017 18:57

Thanks Billi. Did you get a better idea of what he wants from the situation and the kind of role he sees for himself?

0nline · 12/02/2017 19:21

I can't see anyone bothering to engage a solicitor for an international court case for grandparents rights when they've seen the baby exactly once

Having lived in Italy for more than 2 decades, married to an Italian, with regulation stereotypical Italian MIL/Nonna to my child.... I can.

An international lawyer isn't necessarily all that much more expensive than a normal one. I had one here for my complicated divorce fro DH 1.0 which involved three counties and 2 continents. I didn't pay all that much more than my friend did for her far simpler "divorcing an Italian, in Italy after marrying in Italy. We used the same legal studio.

Pretty much if he isn't able, or doesn't want to form a barrier between his child and his mother then it won't happen. And it does look like the above is the case. Potentially cutting off contact, or adding strings like "you can come, but your mum can't" might end up provoking a legal response.

A legal response that doesn't need to rely on the iffy premise of grandparents' rights. All she is needs are her son's parental rights and the sway to get him to exercise them to the full extent that the courts will allow.

A sway she does seem to have to a notable degree.

Original poster
Billi77 · 12/02/2017 20:54

Gini he is happy with visits every couple of months and hasn't pushed for more than that

Online in all honesty, having endured a weekend with her, i cant imagine her engaging a lawyer ever. And it turns out i grin and bear quite well.

The Italian MIL eh......

OP posts:
0nline · 12/02/2017 21:00

The Italian MIL eh......

Did you know that "MIL ! Arrrggggg !!!!" is accepted as legal grounds for a divorce here ? Grin

Original poster
Billi77 · 12/02/2017 21:08

Doesn't surprise me one bit

OP posts: