Sperm donors mother wants to be involved

[Billi77]

Hello. I will try and keep this brief. In short I have a beautiful 8 month old DD and a DP. She was conceived at home using AI with a gay friend who lives in Italy. We drew up an agreement together before she was born saying we had no joint custody and I had sole responsibility but he was entitled to visit every couple of months. fast forward to her (difficult C section) birth and his first visit when I was in hospital. His mother was on the speaker phone telling me what I should or shouldn't do! Thankfully the morphine muffled her but the alarm bells were ringing. He stayed a week and I let him visit every day and he'd FaceTime his family without asking me. I had told him I didn't want them at the birth and he didn't bring them. But they came a few weeks later and the mother was in uber Italian mother in law mode. Coral gifts from her friends, the works. I politely endured her, her daughter, his charmless niece and his boyfriend (whom the mother wouldn't let hold my DD because it was charmless niece's turn!). He's been with his BF for 9 years..... it seems they are using my DD to heterosexualise her father. And I feel they are guilt tripping him and he's doing this out of guilt or perhaps to appease them in some way.
He's been visiting more than every couple of months and keeps doing the FaceTime thing.
He then wanted to come again with his family at Christmas and I said no.
Now I've buckled and he's coming with his mother (not his BF) next weekend. Guilt trips are contagious.
So I need advice. Am I being unreasonable or am I being over accommodating? What would you do if you'd unwittingly inherited an Italian mother in law?
Am having huge anxiety over all of this and feel like it was my own stupid fault for lacking foresight.

[0nline]

Good point but that's a lot of waiting and endurance testing....



Oh 13 years will fly by !

[Billi77]

And of course my little angel will never ever be a stroppy teen ever

[Billi77]

Good point but that's a lot of waiting and endurance testing....

[0nline]

I can offer you one upside.

All that streamrolling and inability to consider anybody else's comfort zones/boundaries can come in quite handy when the child becomes a stroppy teenager.

I've seen well 'ard, hormonally challenged hoodies and hoodettes that tower over their teeny tiny nonna just give up, and slink off as ordered to mass/the market/school when the irresistible force meets the immovable object (that suddenly discovers its inner castors)

My MIL unfortunately died before DS turned into a teenager. He's pretty easy going, but if he ever does go rogue on me I know I'll wish she was still here. She could make policemen quail and wish they'd taking a cushier job, like in the bomb disposal unit. A teenager would have stood no chance, no matter how many "I never asked to born"s they flung about.

Not that I am wishing a future stroppy teen on you . But in the worst of it when she is around and smacking you on so many cultural hot spots that it feels unbearable, it might help to immagine that one day she could come in very handy.

Anything that gets you through the steamrollering a bit
ess painfully is a good thing.

And by anything I do include copious amounts of hard alcohol if necessary

[Prettybaffled]

I'm sure you've seen this page already op www.nataliegambleassociates.co.uk/knowledge-centre/known-donor-disputes

There are several cases and this one is interesting:

'In the Court of Appeal Case of A v B and C (2012), the court allowed a biological father to see his son regularly, even though he had agreed with the child's lesbian mothers at the outset that he would have no involvement (again there was no written agreement). The court rejected the concept of primary and secondary parents, saying that this risked demeaning the important role a known father could offer, and said that the only principle was that child welfare was paramount.'

I think it would be good to get some advice from a lawyer with experience in this area. I should say I have no personal experience of the firm I've pasted links from.

[Prettybaffled]

Just for the record ( and op I know you already knew this) www.nataliegambleassociates.co.uk/knowledge-centre/parenthood-after-donor-conception-sperm-donors-and-co-parent-fathers says this Dan:

"A sperm donor is not the legal father if he donates by artificial insemination to a married or civilly partnered couple who are both legal parents (see our pages on parenthood for men using donor sperm and lesbian non-birth mothers). If there is no second legal parent, he is the legal father, irrespective of what the parents agree or what is recorded on the birth certificate."

[Billi77]

Doesn't surprise me one bit

[0nline]

The Italian MIL eh......

Did you know that "MIL ! Arrrggggg !!!!" is accepted as legal grounds for a divorce here ?

[Billi77]

Gini he is happy with visits every couple of months and hasn't pushed for more than that

Online in all honesty, having endured a weekend with her, i cant imagine her engaging a lawyer ever. And it turns out i grin and bear quite well.

The Italian MIL eh......

[0nline]

I can't see anyone bothering to engage a solicitor for an international court case for grandparents rights when they've seen the baby exactly once

Having lived in Italy for more than 2 decades, married to an Italian, with regulation stereotypical Italian MIL/Nonna to my child.... I can.

An international lawyer isn't necessarily all that much more expensive than a normal one. I had one here for my complicated divorce fro DH 1.0 which involved three counties and 2 continents. I didn't pay all that much more than my friend did for her far simpler "divorcing an Italian, in Italy after marrying in Italy. We used the same legal studio.

Pretty much if he isn't able, or doesn't want to form a barrier between his child and his mother then it won't happen. And it does look like the above is the case. Potentially cutting off contact, or adding strings like "you can come, but your mum can't" might end up provoking a legal response.

A legal response that doesn't need to rely on the iffy premise of grandparents' rights. All she is needs are her son's parental rights and the sway to get him to exercise them to the full extent that the courts will allow.

A sway she does seem to have to a notable degree.

[Gini99]

Thanks Billi. Did you get a better idea of what he wants from the situation and the kind of role he sees for himself?

[Billi77]

And he's not paying maintenance...

[Billi77]

Thanks Gini99 that's fairly spot on :)

[Gini99]

Billi, you sound as if you are being really sensitive and child-centred in a difficult situation. I hope that the lunch today has helped and clarified what he wants from the situation and how it can best be managed.

She needs to accept that this child was the product of sperm donation and has two loving parents neither of which is her son. Dangleballs I think that is not the right way to view this. Legally* and biologically the child has a mother and a father. Legally it's not sperm donation but parenthood. From what I understand of what the OP had said then her relationship with her DP is a relatively new relationship and subsequent to her DD being conceived (and born?) so the DP is not legally a parent and the OP is sensibly cautious about moving to her DP being in a formal parental role as she says "it's a fairly young relationship so feels like too much of a commitment too soon". So really, legally, this is the same as if the OP had accidentally got pg in a quick fling with a friend and then got into a new relationship whilst pregnant/soon after birth. That means that if he wants to get involved then he could apply for PR etc fairly easily in just the same way as any other father could and regardless of whether he is paying maintenance. It also means that the OP can't just dictate everyone's roles or appoint her DP into a parental role to the exclusion of the father (not that the OP is doing that herself but some seem to be advising her to act in this way).

The OP sounds as if she is very sensibly trying to manage relationships that could become very difficult if they fracture.

*Of course it's not possible to definitively say the legal situation from internet posts but it looks this way from all the info posted here. I am sure the OP will take legal advice if it becomes relevant.

[Therealloislane]

sperm

[Therealloislane]

Does he pay child maintenance?

I'm assuming not as he's referred to as a spermicide donor.

[Prettybaffled]

Op/her dp may not be ready to take the huge step of her partner having PR and there is the issue that bio father maybe wouldn't agree. Plus the benefit of dc having contact with bio family on both sides is very well researched when it comes to adopted children certainly. What would be the benefit to op's dd of that arrangement anyway, while her df wants to be involved?

Op I think you are doing exactly the right thing in encouraging visits and tolerating 'mil'!

[BeThereOnTheDouble]

Billi - I can't quite tell from your posts if you consider your partner to be your child's mother (to an equal extent you are)?

[HerrenaHarridan]

The more people who are invested in you dds well being the greater her chances in life.

It sounds like a pain in the arse, you just want to enjoy your baby and that's fine.

She won't be a baby forever however before you know it she will be a real actual person, making sense of this crazy world.

Her grandmothers underlying homophobia, as long as it's not overt and abusive, will not be inherently damaging to her.

Talking it through with her, letting her see the strategies you use to put it down will equip her to deal with it in strangers when the time comes and come it will.

My advice to you is to sit down with your partner and work out a contact agreement your happy with.
The courts are unlikely to get involved while some access is granted.

I would agree that sperm donor can visit say 3 times a year, on 1 of those occasion he can bring his family. Face time can happen on the others. To be reviewed in three years.

[Cakingbad]

This situation would make a great film! Hope it all works out for you, OP. She's a lucky girl having so many people to love her - even if it is a bit more than you bargained for.

[Billi77]

pinbasket may I ask what your circumstances are with DD father?
And thanks everyone for the advice and knowledge.
I am going to see them today for lunch and then have a long chat with him in the aftermath to clarify stuff using her behaviour as an example.

[Billi77]

She is a nightmare but I would never stop DD from seeing them if she a) wanted to and b) is old enough to.. As for her biological father, when she starts asking questions, I will tell her who he is and the absolute truth. I wanted a known donor in case of this very eventuality
I do at the same time hope she knows where her immediate family starts and ends, which is here with me and my partner.

[christmaswreaths]

I am Italian and can say this us pretty normal behaviour for nonna especially with a first grandchild. Men tend to be worried about upsetting their mums, so you don't know how much he has told her about the arrangement he has with you. She will see herself as her Grandma no matter what.

Family us incredibly important to Italians and this from what you have described is normal behaviour.

I would consider that your child might want to explore their heritage further growing up so speaking Italian and having an Italian family to visit might become important (assuming they are a nice family)

[life07]

What's best for your child OP and not you.

[DanGleballs]

No one has a right to contact with a child legally, the child has the right to contact with adults. Contact has to be in the best interests of the child. The child is being brought up by two mothers. Sperm donor's insistant mother having contact would surely confuse the child and interfere with the relationship between the parents and child. I can't see a judge ordering regular contact as being in the best interests of the child. This is all about Granny. She needs to accept that this child was the product of sperm donation and has two loving parents neither of which is her son.