Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

Sperm donors mother wants to be involved

106 replies

Billi77 · 01/02/2017 15:57

Hello. I will try and keep this brief. In short I have a beautiful 8 month old DD and a DP. She was conceived at home using AI with a gay friend who lives in Italy. We drew up an agreement together before she was born saying we had no joint custody and I had sole responsibility but he was entitled to visit every couple of months. fast forward to her (difficult C section) birth and his first visit when I was in hospital. His mother was on the speaker phone telling me what I should or shouldn't do! Thankfully the morphine muffled her but the alarm bells were ringing. He stayed a week and I let him visit every day and he'd FaceTime his family without asking me. I had told him I didn't want them at the birth and he didn't bring them. But they came a few weeks later and the mother was in uber Italian mother in law mode. Coral gifts from her friends, the works. I politely endured her, her daughter, his charmless niece and his boyfriend (whom the mother wouldn't let hold my DD because it was charmless niece's turn!). He's been with his BF for 9 years..... it seems they are using my DD to heterosexualise her father. And I feel they are guilt tripping him and he's doing this out of guilt or perhaps to appease them in some way.
He's been visiting more than every couple of months and keeps doing the FaceTime thing.
He then wanted to come again with his family at Christmas and I said no.
Now I've buckled and he's coming with his mother (not his BF) next weekend. Guilt trips are contagious.
So I need advice. Am I being unreasonable or am I being over accommodating? What would you do if you'd unwittingly inherited an Italian mother in law?
Am having huge anxiety over all of this and feel like it was my own stupid fault for lacking foresight.

OP posts:

Offred · 01/02/2017 19:09

Think you need to have a full and frank discussion with your gay friend (DD's dad) and pass it back to him to handle...

Just as you would if you were a separated heterosexual couple.

I think I'd be saying to him I was worried about his mother and the effect she seemed to be having on him and that he really needs to do something because you don't want her refusal to accept the reality of his sexuality (I.e. Thinking she can rewrite him as heterosexual because of her homophobia) to poison DD's childhood or her connection to him.

Daisypopslop · 01/02/2017 19:27

Oh you poor thing I have a Mediterranean mil (but at least I knew I was landing myself with her) they can be ott!
Talk to doner and try and get him to get her off your back. Although I fear he my be very under mamas control. Plus she's Italian and and she has a baby granddaughter I can imagine the gushing! On a positive she may send lots of lovely presents to your DD.
Realistically she is in a different country so hopefully can be controlled and probably kept happy by regular photos etc to show off to the other grand mamas out there.
The homophobia is difficult to deal with. Do you mean she would rather her son turn straight and marry you in a big catholic wedding type thing? Or she really doesn't approve? She is showing love to your baby so she can't be pure hatred.
Distance yourself and get legal advice but think what may be good for your DD long term, Italian links may be good someday. Good luck

Gallavich · 01/02/2017 19:44

can't believe I assumed your DP was a bloke. Sheesh.
So your DP isn't actually a parent as you decided to have a baby then she came along. That makes more sense! I still think the bio dad shouldn't have a huge role, mainly in case he flakes in future (has been known). The grandma is grandma but she doesn't need to see her often.

Viviennemary · 01/02/2017 19:49

When you enter into this kind of arrangement there can be all sorts of problems. I think it was unrealistic to agree to visits from the person who donated the sperm and expect him not to bond with his child. The whole thing sounds fraught with problems now and in future. I don't know how best to deal with it except in a legal way. Even if he isn't on the birth certificate he can apply for parental access and a DNA test to prove paternity.

Prettybaffled · 01/02/2017 19:57

Op congratulations on having your dd and hope the difficulties of the challenging birth are now behind you.

As a dm of older dc (not donor conceived) I think you might find it helpful to look at it the other au around - what do I think my dd would want for her childhood and what would benefit her most.

Afaik and I am not an expect on donor conceived dc but I do have some knowledge of adoption from extended family, the research showed that dc have a powerful drive to understand their both parents and heritage.

So while your 'mil' sounds difficult she is potentially part of the gateway to your dd understanding her paternal DNA and Italian heritage.

The homophobia is bad, but as her father has such a long established gay relationship and you will also be demonstrating a powerful counter example I would think she will have many positive role models in this respect.

I can imagine it is very hard but I think you might find if you can keep on good terms with birth df and 'mil' then it will be greatly in your dd's interests in terms of security and understanding where she comes from as she grows up.

Desmondo2016 · 01/02/2017 20:57

It seems to me that you've allowed/chosen/engineered the situation whereby he is very much 'father' not 'sperm donor'. The fact the conception was AI Is irrelevant to me. Where there's a father, there's a paternal grand mother im afraid. I fear (and respect) that legally he would probably win his fatherly rights if he did choose to fight for them. You need to accept him as your daughters father, with all the things that brings (grannies, access battles if he so chooses later on) or tell him now that he was just the sperm donor and then probably move house to the other end of the Country!

Original poster

Billi77 · 01/02/2017 21:47

Thanks everyone. Time will tell and firm up roles as this is a rare situation.
Out of interest, if a father lives abroad and doesn't pay maintenance, what sort of visitation frequency would he be granted? I get all sorts of answers from friends who have co-parented yet this situation is different. My lawyer said I have a case to not have visitation m as it was donor conception but I would be happy to grant her father these rights in the unlikely event he would take me to court

OP posts:

wannabestressfree · 01/02/2017 21:53

Is it not nice for your dd to have as many people around her that love her as possible? We don't 'own' our children, she is just as much a part of him and his family too.
My 15 year old sees his father very rarely (once a year tops) and yet I always kept in contact with his family and my ds was particularly close to his grandparents. I thought it was important as his mum to foster all the relationships that should be important in his life. It's not always been easy but it was the right thing to do.

wannabestressfree · 01/02/2017 21:54

Visitation is not linked to maintenance..... separate issues.

HorridHenryrule · 01/02/2017 22:07

He is legally the sperm donor and your do is her father. I think you have made this very complicated. I do wonder why his mother knows about it. He may have used this situation to get closer to his mother. Just a thought.

Gallavich · 01/02/2017 22:09

horridhenry her DP is a woman and a new partner so not a parent at all. The sperm donor is legally the father, or would be if he chose to pursue it through the court.

Gini99 · 01/02/2017 22:09

I very much hope that it wouldn't go to court Billi but I would just caution against classifying it as a 'sperm donor' case because it isn't legally. When the Court of Appeal last looked at this issue of 'informal donation' here one of the judges said something which I think defines the way that they looked at the case:
"The practice has grown up of referring to the father in circumstances such as this as a "donor". That is entirely understandable where he has made an anonymous donation of sperm. However, it seems to me that the label might merit reconsideration in other cases as it is capable of conveying the impression that the father is giving his child away and that is misleading. As I hope I have explained, the role of the father in the child's life will depend on what is in the child's best interests at each stage of the child's childhood and adolescence. As with any other child, the father/child relationship may turn out to be close and fulfilling for both sides, it may be no more than nominal, or it may be something in between."

I think it is pretty difficult to give a general answer to that issue because it depends on the children's best inters in the exact situation. As Wannabe says, the non-payment of maintenance is irrelevant to questions of contact and residence.

Gini99 · 01/02/2017 22:10

He is legally the sperm donor and your do is her father. I think you have made this very complicated HorridHenry that's not true at all. It would only be true if she had made the arrangements under the HFEA.

Sammygold · 01/02/2017 22:14

I realise that the grandmother may be an inconvenience to you but the father is in her life. It's not about you. It's about your what's best for your child. The paternal family is part of your child's identity. I think it is wrong of you to deprive her of a loving grandmother for no good reason.

Cherrysoup · 01/02/2017 22:20

Gonna be brutal: grandparents would have to apply for rights in court. You can simply say no to her visits and remind the donor that he agreed to the original timings. He can get arsey if mama is pushing him, but if you don't want her there, you can tell him no. Up to you.

HorridHenryrule · 01/02/2017 22:33

Sorry op I don't know how I missed that. She has you and your dp. I still feel the same with your donor he wants to get closer to his mother. You both signed a legal document explaining all that. I do wonder what his motives are.

HorridHenryrule · 01/02/2017 22:37

Just read a post about him not being seen as a donor didn't know that. You may have to put up with it and try to meet in the middle. I don't think you are going to get rid of grandmother bear that easily.

Bluntness100 · 01/02/2017 22:46

Ah, op, is it really that bad for your daughter to have a grandma. She's going to know you and your partner didn't conceive her and she's going to know it was not the stork, so is it really that much of an issue if she has a grand mother?

Don't look at it from your perspective, look at it from the more people who love your child the better. One grandma, two, three,as long as they all have her best interests at heart it's all good right, because it's really all about her.

Isn't it?

therealpippi · 01/02/2017 22:47

Legally I have no idea how it works but as an Italian I can say (generalizing) that you need to learn how to be firm in defining your boundaries.
There is a lot of love your dd can receive from the mil and as someone said upthread it'll only be an advantage to dd. But yoll have to be firm. You'll create some upset at first but it'll be much better long term.

Original poster

Billi77 · 01/02/2017 22:59

It is. I have always wanted my daughter to have as many love sources as possible. trust me, there are hoards of people being just that. I think the homophobia and cultural differences rattled me as I genuinely do not think it is healthy for my DD to have a relative make out that both her parents (and their partners) are doing anything wrong in being gay. And this has already happened and I fear DD's father is using DD, albeit unwittingly, to walk back into the closed where his mama will love him more. Do not underestimate the power of the Mediterranean mother! I have one myself.
But moving forward I am curious to know what kind of contact would be reasonable between him and her. And I suppose will have to accept he may want to see his mother with DD.

OP posts:

Original poster

Billi77 · 01/02/2017 23:00

Oh and thanks everyone for your posts. It's extremely helpful to see all these angles

OP posts:

Prettybaffled · 02/02/2017 00:01

Billi yes the homophobia is awful but tbh I really think her normal will be you, your set up and her df's set up so she will grow up taking it for granted that some children are born to gay parents and knowing that being gay is normal! The majority of her peers may well take the range of sexuality as a given. My friend already has teens and her children say in their age group most people just take it for granted that people fall for the each other whether f/f, m/m or f/m.

I would think she would probably end up laughing at her grandmother to be honest - as teenagers we used to find our (otherwise very lovely) grandmother's prejudices about certain nationalities bonkers.

therealpippi · 02/02/2017 05:37

Billi your analysis is very spot on, I am sure it is very tempting for him and his mum to use dd to realign the world as 'it should have been'. However we know that won't be possible and it'll be them to adjust once again.

As for the practicalities, I guess you have to see what feels right to you and curb it from the off when they overstep the mark. Think about what will be confortable for you (frequency of visits, location etc) to start with and go from there.

Offred · 02/02/2017 06:30

The homophobia is awful and I suspect you are spot on with your analysis of what is going on and the potential tensions re your dd.

You've had a baby not too long ago and you can't sort out his mother or his relationship with her. I would say talk to him and express your concerns and let him deal with it.

You arrange with him what level of contact you both are comfortable with and gently urge him to see her without his mother in the main...

allegretto · 11/02/2017 14:27

Does the grandmother actually know that her son is a sperm donor or does she think you had a relationship with him? I don't think you should block her out completely but definitely set some limits especially if she is criticising your relationship with your DP.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5