Husband just said this ...

[Ohthatagaine]

You are killing my feelings for you by denying me sex ... does this sound like a man who loves his wife? We have 3 kids and i admit my sex drive is not what it used to be. The last few years our sex life has dwindled but recently we've been getting closer and closer and committing to making time for each other. So one night this week, he blows up because i was too tired close to midnight. I get his frustration but this comment has made me look at him in a totally different light. I don't think he really loves me as a person. It made me question my whole marriage. Whats your take on it ladies?

I feel like I've gone back to the 1950's here.

Me too. The ingrained, unconscious misogyny is depressing.

Understand the man! ....yes, only the woman is expected to behave like an adult and do understanding, communicating and talking. Maybe she can work on intimacy and other things. He can say 'you're denying me sex' with threats to leave, and apparently he doesn't need to do any of this, he's done his bit. God forbid he should have to do any understanding, communicating, talking or suggest ideas on intimacy himself as if there's some stupid idea about equality. He doesn't seem to be giving much thought to her needs, or what it's like to be up through the night every night with his child.

Stop breast feeding. Give the man sex and he'll walk through walls.

Bloody hell.

Quick OP, we must be able to find you some 1950s issues of Good Housekeeping and articles on 'how to look good for your man' and pose provocatively with your hoover. Has anyone suggested lacy underwear, or laying back and thinking of England yet?

A lot of pps are making out as if the DH in the OP isn't having any sex with his wife and snapped in frustration, when her OP indicates it's been increasing lately and they've been working on being intimate.

I get that it can hurt to be continuously rejected, but that isn't what the OP described, and even it were, is him initiating sex at midnight and then snapping that you won't love them and will cheat unless they fuck you more often an appropriate way to start an honest and respectful discussion?

We've had our dry spells, and if dh decided he's going to celibate (which is what a few pps seem to think the OP is doing for some reason) then of course I'd want to talk about it, I'd be hurt, but I wouldn't raise the subject by trying to shag him at midnight when he's going to be up early and then start a row and tell him I'm going elsewhere for it and that I won't love him. It sounds like OP doesn't get much sleep as it is, can't imagine she got much after he dropped that bombshell.

its also odd that so many people are saying that he wants affection (in his case sex) and has snapped that he's not getting it and making suggestions on how she can fix it, whereas OP has said she also wants affection (in her case hugs etc) and he's not giving her it. Where's the critisicm for him at failing to meet And ignoring her needs?

If Op had said she wanted to Kay in bed hugging and chatting but said he was tired so rolled over and snapped and told that his lack of affection is killing her love for him and she will cheat if he doesn't do what she wants, she'd be flamed.

How right you are, SW.

And a man who only meets his own child's needs because his wife to give him good regular sex is a cunt imo

I don't think most men are like that, most men will change their children's nappies because thats what normal loving parents do, not because they want a fuck.

If a man offered to walk through walls for me to give him good sex, I'd tell him there's no need when he can simply open the door and fuck off out of it.

i almost changed my username to I Cook For Cunnilingus :)

Completely agree with bluntness

So many women say I don't want to have sex, but they also don't want their husband to have sex with anyone else. They wish them to become celibate. How fair is that

Well that's taken the argument forward jojo.

So some women, who are not the OP, do something the OP hasn't done, and expect something of their spouses that the Op does not, Jojo?

What a fantastic point, clearly made.

At the end of all this we have two people with very young children who are unhappy. The wife feels manipulated and guilt tripped by husbands behaviour and husband feels like his love is diminishing because of lack of sex. Ultimately they are both correct. He feels as he said for right or wrong. It's how he feels. Her feelings are equally valid.
If they both want the marriage to last then they both need to find a compromise.

The office for national statistics has divorce among the parents of under 5s at 21%. . The highest of any group. It's not hard to work out why..
Mother switches focus to child and prioritises children above relationship . Sex life dwindles . Husband looks elsewhere.
This is fact. If you are happy with prospect of divorce, then fine. But if you don't try and find a compromise then it's fairly inevitable.

"Mother switches focus to child and prioritises children above relationship . Sex life dwindles . Husband looks elsewhere."

I am confused. Are men generally considered utter twats nowadays? Is it normal to infantilise them in this insulting way?

This thread is like the Outer Limits, I'm back in the 1950's again. In heterosexual relationships in the twenty-first century, are women still expected to prioritise the desire of their man and focus on him and ensure they don't pay their children too much attention in case he gets jealous? Are men not required to engage with parenting, family and relationship? Are men not required to be adults? What is men's role in this set up, what is required of them regarding relationships? Are they just supposed to sit there reaping the fruits of women's emotional work on the relationship, or are they expected to actually contribute to the relationship themselves?

The thing is, the world is still not full of perfectly behaved, mature reasonable adults living in a 21st century equal opportunity utopia. People have feelings and telling them they are simply not allowed to, won't make the issues go away. The OP is distressed and doesn't feel connected to her DH. He appears to feel the same.

They both need to work out their compromise. The main issue that he can probably find someone to shag far easier than she can find someone to help her with the domestic drudgery. It's a shitty balance of power and one that hasn't changed that radically since the 50s, no matter how much we want it to have done.

Can't disagree with you there, Sofa.

Women are getting a shit deal from heterosexual relationships.

What's the old saying? Men need sex to feel loved but women need to feel loved to have sex.
He should concentrate on making you feel loved.

"Men who wash up have the best sex lives" is a direct quote from a 90 year old friend of mine who still has a twinkle in his eye.

If only the OP's husband had said THIS instead :

"I've been thinking. I come home tired from work, but I've now had time to sit and wind down.

However, you have been on the go all day. That doesn't seem fair. No wonder you are exhausted. From now on, why not have half an hour to yourself EVERY night, just before bed?

Have a long relaxing bath/shower; read a book; whatever. I will keep you supplied with cups of tea/glass of wine.

In that time, I will do all the boring end of day tasks. (washing up, putting the rubbish out, tidying up, etc).

I'll join you in bed when I'm done. We can have a cuddle and a chat about our day. Do you think this is a good idea?"

Problem solved. I can guarantee that ANY man who suggested that would see an immediate improvement in his sex life ...

I think before people go off the deep end posturing about patriarchy - this shit happens in lesbian relationships too. No one is ever 'entitled' to sex from anyone ever! But similarly-not ever wanting to have sex with a sexual partner is an indication that the relationship is not in a good place. Unless the feeling is mutual and the relationship has become more of a friendship for both - then the lack of sex is going to create a dynamic - trigger feelings of hurt, rejection, anger, frustration, low self esteem on one side and feeling obligated, manipulated, judged or objectified on the other.
And in that dynamic people can sometimes behave badly.
OP - people say stupid shit things sometimes. Your DH picked a bad time to initiate and feel rejected. And then said something shit out of emotion. At guess? - he's feeling that you have all the controls and he's trying to 'win you back' and so he's said something to mean that he resents that it seems to him that it's all about how you feel about him.
If things have been getting better then that's good. If he is coming across as entitled - uncaring or unsupportive - that's what he needs to work on.
Good luck OP!

Yes and when it happens in lesbian relationships, people don't make excuses for it. They recognise it as shitty behaviour.

"not ever wanting to have sex with a sexual partner is an indication that the relationship is not in a good place. "

Well, this is true. But in this instance, they are having sex, just one party wants it more often.

"he's feeling that you have all the controls "

The alternative to the person who doesn't want sex at that moment "having all the controls" is not a good one.

I'm not a man but my exh rarely felt like having sex with me and in the end I felt unloved and unattractive. I found it soul destroying to be rebuffed and stopped trying.

So I think I know what he was trying to get at it but I don't think he phrased it right.

I don't know how often you do have sex. It's not clear in your posts. Although it seems to indicate you're trying to get closer emotionally more then physically.

I think you both need to have an honest chat about how to make time to be intimate and what you both want here. Don't brush it under the carpet or go completely cold turkey because of his ill thought out comment.

I have to say that breast feeding lowered my libido as did the pill. So those are also things to bear in mind if you do want to improve your labido in due course, as you may find the same.

As the kids get older you'll hopefully get your groove back when you're less tired. But either way you have to talk to each other about this and find a middle ground going forward.

This thread is like the Outer Limits, I'm back in the 1950's again. In heterosexual relationships in the twenty-first century, are women still expected to prioritise the desire of their man and focus on him and ensure they don't pay their children too much attention in case he gets jealous?

In some kind of perfect utopia of course they aren't . Sadly we aren't in that place. We are in the real world where 21% of marriages to parents who have under 5s ends in divorce. THIS IS A FACT. (ONS 2014)

You really don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out why people who were in love and committed to each other sufficiently to marry, say 6/7 yrs before, are now divorcing. I know this first hand . Children are not always the binding glue to a marriage. Sometimes they are a hand-grenade.
My husband left me because I was too focused on the kids and put no effort into us. (Especially sex)
My now DH left his wife because she didn't want to spend anytime with him once she had children. (Especially sex)

Is it right ? No, of course it's not. Men should be happy to go without sex until their wife feels ready, even if that takes years. They should be sharing equally in childcare/housework. Does that happen ? Almost never.

Regardless of what is right or should be right, the result is a lot of broken marriages and children shuttling backwards and forwards for contact every weekend. They are the ultimate losers.

Apologies.. first paragraph is a quote. Should be bold.

There are three threads in relationships were marriages are breaking down because the women find it boring, unexciting, lacking in intimacy and lacking in sex (two have hit the 1000 post mark and the third will as well). Women have needs as well and we recognise this and there is a lot of support on those threads to help those women. I am permanently confused about why the opposite is so much harder to recognise - that men have needs as well.

Well in that case you're being deliberately obtuse, because nobody is failing to recognise that men have needs. How you go about getting needs met is the question.

OK HelenDenver - full marks for cleverly twisting a meaning to something completely different - I hope you don't do that in all your relationships!

But I do think it's simply wrong to frame a lack of sexual intimacy as someone not having their 'needs' met. In a healthy relationship it's got far more to do with intimacy, mutual admiiration, reciprocity, - not some kind of one sided relief at the expense of another!

I think when someone decides to treat the other partner in a shitty way because they want more sex it's no longer about understanding each others needs, communication etc. Pressuring someone into sex is unacceptable. Threatening someone because you want more sex is unacceptable. The "it's hurtful to be rejected" feelings in no way justify the behaviour.

I'm sure it is hurtful to be rejected. But I remember listening to a woman's hour article last year about mismatched libido in long term relationships and a guest (possible a Relate counsellor) said lying in bed feeling rejected is the loneliest place to be in a marriage. To my mind lying in bed under pressure to have sex from an angry partner is a much worse place.

"OK HelenDenver - full marks for cleverly twisting a meaning to something completely different - I hope you don't do that in all your relationships"

I wasn't aware you and I were in any kind of relationship.

If you mean my quoting you on his feelings about her having controls, what did you mean by that, then?

In heterosexual relationships in the twenty-first century, are women still expected to prioritise the desire of their man and focus on him and ensure they don't pay their children too much attention in case he gets jealous? In some kind of perfect utopia of course they aren't . Sadly we aren't in that place.

Completely agree. The thing is though that every post pointing this out is implying that the solution has to be that women pick up the slack and compensate for men to have the easier time and to be the priority need, otherwise they only have themselves to blame when their relationship breaks down. Which implies that only women have that capacity, and that expecting men to change is hopeless. You're basically saying it's an unreasonable expectation and women need to get a grip and stop it.

So long as the answer to all problems is that women try harder and take responsibility so men don't have to, and give out the message that this is ok nothing will change.