How on earth can I keep us all safe?

[cherrycrumblecustard]

I was going to make this post about "my friend" but honestly, I think I just need to be open about me.

How do you cope? When you live with someone who

will hit (not hard and not enough to bruise but will hityou and also shove, thump things near you and so on)
won't take no for an answer for sex, pulls your pants down as you pull them up, insists, ejaculates when you don't want them to and have asked/begged/pleaded not to
controls EVERYTHING

I need out, but I am TERRIFIED of leaving my children, our children, with him

There is so much that good therapy could help you with .
A good counsellor.

but if I play him a certain way I get what I want while he thinks he's got what he wants But you didn't play him, he played you. And very well, if you think that you were the one who came out on top!!

You feel it's normal because that's your normal. You never developed into a full adult, as you're under the rule of your husband.
You'll be fine while you act like a child. If you started being an adult you'd get in danger and you know it. Wow..THIS op, this!!

Extending on what MissClarke86 said in her post of Sun 18-Dec-16 11:34:12

If your DD DOES grow to be mouthy and feisty and ends up talking to her father like that, imagine how he will react? Because he clearly doesn't like being stood up to, and hasn't for some time.

But this threads not even a week old and I'm getting a hard time because I haven't left yet. You are not getting a hard time, and if you think you are, it isn't because you haven't left yet. You are getting some straight talking about the consequences of this relationship on your children, because you are failing to see the impact of your relationship on them. And yes, you are rejecting those posts in your "children are happy and safe" answers.

It's fine. I'm happy. If you are "happy" now, being raped, controlled, physically abused imagine how genuinely happy you will be when you are no longer answerable to him.

but I get told at least once a week that I am stupid, irresponsible, bad parent, bad person, childish, over-dramatic (usually 'turn down the theatrics' with a scornful look) and thoughtless. Reading it on here as well, I'm now thinking he's probably right! No one is saying that to you on here, op. We are not your husband, playing mind games, trying to put you down, manipulate you, control you. You don't have to twist our words to find that message that isn't there. We are not saying one thing and meaning another. We are concerned for you. And your children.

But I'm not worthy of love. Yes, you are.

OP, please let me tell you a story. One that starts off not dissimilar to yours.

I was unwanted by my mother. She was "persuaded" to continue my pregnancy by her brothers, and my father. Being told "you will lve it once it is here" (I was her third biologically, and she was raising a child from my father's previous relationship). Well, I came along (after her attempts to self terminate) and no, she didn't love me. My father left when I was 5, and there began the downslide of my childhood. It was apparent that she didn't love me.

At 15 I met a man. He was 21. There was no protective advice, no warning him off, not cautious voice. She left me to it. Thankfully, he was a kind man and nothing happened until I instigated it, well after my 16 birthday. I married that man. Today, with a marriage of almost 23 years behind us, we are happy.

I don't think I settled, he is awesome. But I do think that had I not been lacking that maternal love and guidance, I may have chosen a different path. Done more instead of settling down with the first person to show me love; the first person to treat me as something special.

It is hard when the very person who is supposed to love you the hardest, barely loves you at all, but that does not mean you are not lovable. I put my now dh through "tests" to see how much he loved me. I feel ashamed now, but in my head, he passed every single one.

My mum not loving me was HER issue, not mine. And it doesn't mean I am not loveable. Ask my daughters...they tell me every day, and I am far from a "perfect parent" Ask my husband, whose world would collapse should I not be in it.

Your husband has done nothing but lure you in, and use your insecurity against you. My husband nurtured me, and cared for me, showed me what love was. Never once has he raped me. Hit me. Controlled me. THAT is marriage.

different it's like you have to handle him a certain way. I used to lie a lot, to stop him getting annoyed with me. I knew it was wrong, but I did.

What upset me about what a poster did a few pages ago, was that I was nothing but polite, kind and appreciative towards a poster and it somehow got twisted and used against me. The overall message may have been supportive, although it wasn't for me I have to say, but I can accept that was the intent, but twisting what I say isn't fair. Anyway it is done now.

But yes, you are right about the not developing into a full adult thing. Which is why leaving is petrifying. And he does love me and care about me, in his own way. But he does not hurt the children, nor would he. I don't know how he'd deal with a stroppy teenage daughter, probably confiscate her phone or something?

toomany I'm sorry you went through that I think my mum may have had a pretty serious mental illness - although would she have been able to 'mask' to the extent she went to work and appear normal to everyone apart from the family? I don't know. Anyway she didn't like me much, I know that!

Hi OP I've been lurking and just wanted to say something. I have no advice to offer (and think you've been given excellent advice already).
But it really strikes me how confident and strong you are. I know you don't feel it. But you've come on here asking advice from strangers. People have given you their advice and you've listened and responded. You've not just said "yes you're right" to everyone. You've not agreeed with everyone's advice and opinions, and have said that you love your husband even though you know it's not what people here wanted to hear. I've probably not explained myself well!
What I'm trying to say is that whatever you decide to do; you can do it

That's kind of you. Thank you.

You've a lot to process and a lot of thinking to do. It must be hard to accept that your husband is a controlling, manipulating, sexual abuser. I've been married for 38 years and not once has my husband forced himself on me, he's never once pushed, shoved or hit me, he doesn't even raise his voice to me. If he ever did it would be over. However, he's not perfect by any means and neither am I. We both want the same thing, an equal relationship where we love and respect each other, not an unequal one where one is ruled by the other and afraid to be themselves for fear a battering, be that sexual, physical or verbal.

OP, I've read pages of this thread and the thing I'd like you to consider is that at some point in the future your children will judge you and your DH. Have you not taken on board the harm your acceptance of your DH's vile treatment is doing to your DC? Because your DH isn't going to change, the only way those poor DC can escape is if you leave. If you don't leave, you have reason to fear their judgment.

I'm being so blunt because I really don't think you are prepared to be honest about the size of the issue.

But I do have reason to fear their judgement, because they aren't unhappy. From their perception, from their point of view, I would be taking them away from their school, nursery, beautiful home, garden, dad, to who knows what. I would have no money, no car, no support. Nothing to offer them at all.

How you have to act in relation to your OH is usually called walking on eggshells.
You know you have to thread carefully. Your life is dominated by what he'll think and what he'll do. It's a form of brainwashing, and no wonder you can't imagine your life without him.
You could try and reverse it by imagining yourself without him.
Say a colleague invites you for coffee, you can think: without him I'd just tell my partner/childminder I'd be a little late. How does that sound?

What do you have to offer them?
You
Peace
Love
Respect
Time
Fun

Children value those more than cars or houses.

And you will have more disposable money to spend as you see fit when you leave him.
See all that you can get and figure out what your finances could be.

I know Lweji but the stark truth is I have nothing to offer them. We'd have to move and DS would not be able to go the secondary school he wants to go to with all his friends. He's just settled and got into a group of nice boys. I am the one to take him away from that? If I did I think he'd probably ask to stay with DH anyway.

And how to cope completely and totally on my own, what if I got ill or needed to be admitted to hospital? What would happen to the children then?

I would never be able to Live anywhere as nice as we now do, or take the children on holiday, go for days out. I don't have a proper job, or anything.

I am worried about him having contact without me there, but can't stop that happening.

You wouldn't necessarily have to move. Take legal advice about getting a non-molestation injunction which would mean your husband would have to move out. He would of course have to pay maintenance.

If you got ill there are mechanisms in place for looking after children, including some lovely foster parents. Don't let a hypothetical problems like that put you off doing what is necessary to keep yourself and your children safe.

I'm sure my mother thought we were blissfully happy. We had a lovely middle class life with sweet Ming pools and tennis courts and private schools.

I would rather have lived in a hovel and not been terrified of what mood my dad was going to be in when he came home. And let me be clear here - he never hit me and didn't really hit my mum either. But he was abusive and our home was not a happy one despite the material trappings. Neither is yours.

His financial responsibilities with his children will not end with the marriage. You could even ask to stay in the house for now.
And once you rebuild your confidence you will put your life back on track and that will mean having friends, having a job and happiness to share with them.

And btw, what happens if you're taken into hospital now??
What makes it so different?

You could stay in your home and have your husband put at a secure distance from your family.
It's possible, but you will have to go and work to get it.
Get all the advice you can, then decide what's best for you and the children.

why would you be worried about contact without you there?

on the one hand you say you have no concerns and he would never hurt the children...and yet you worry about the children being with him without you there to...to what? to moderate? to make sure the doesn't hit them? what is the concern?

"he does love me and care about me, in his own way" look, most abusive people will profess love and do things that look like love., it is not black and white. they are lovely 50%, 65% 99% of the time..but the 1% of pushing shoving raping...that is enough to control you and ruin everything.

maybe you don't want the children with him alone because you fear that 1% when he is angry/pushing/shoving?

do speak to someone in real life a counselor when you can tell everything as it is ....a good counselor wont tell you what to do. but they can help you make a decision and see more clearly.

and you dont have to move schools or live in a hovel...your husband/partner has to provide for the children through child maintenance.
are you married?
whose name is on the house?
is there equity in it? how much? enough to buy some place else nearby? how much is rent nearby? etc ...things you need to know. you dont need to say on here but get the knowledge for you. you should know these things anyway in case your partner gets run over tomorrow... these are the basic things you can find out and get advice on.

sorry I should have said they they seem to be lovely 50%, 65% 99% of the time...

When cestlavie says "They seem to be lovely 50%, 65% 99% of the time..." cestlavie is right in saying 'seem'.

Because that 50%, 65% or 99% proportion isn't them actually being lovely, it's simply the times of the day when they aren't carrying out the overtly abusive behaviour.

So even whilst the abusive parts may only be 1% or 10%, for the remaining 90-99% of the time you're handling him, wondering what mood he'll be in when you come home, being concerned he retains his reigned in anger around your children, recovering from one of his rapes or one of his pinching and slappings, or one of his physically threatening or emotionally intimidating episodes.

And I do get what you're saying about it's not black and white and that there are nuances.

What I do want to say and this is not to panic you or in any way to have a go at you but is based on time I spent doing meetings for child protection cases where children had been placed on a protection order. Children's services will see things much more in black and white and that's just a fact. They will understand that it will take time for you to achieve insight, stop minimising, grow in confidence and understanding after years of being cruelly ground down so that you don't even know any different. But they will tolerate it only so long because they need to see that the penny's dropped and you are actually placing your children first and protecting them. I would say that your gaining insight is the thing they will want to see the most because from that will come all the other things - your deciding to do something concrete about it now at this stage and keeping him in their lives only in the most safe way possible (such as with retraining orders, contact centre contact only, etc).

No one can reach that place of thinking but you and no one can force you along that road any quicker than you can go along it but please do not think that your children aren't being affected because I assure you they are.

And I know this from experience.

If I went into hospital now, DH would probably hire a nanny for a few weeks and although the children might miss me things would stay as normal. If I left DH and went into hospital everything would be chaos. Foster parents would be awful for the children. If he looked after them they'd have however long of listening to stories about me from when I was 17, 18, 19. Stupid stuff I did. Things I said about them, things I did to them. All true but taken out of context.

I just don't know if I am strong enough, is the truth! I feel like leaving is something strong women do.

Every time someone says the children are being affected I just feel like saying - how do you know?

You don't live here.

You don't see him, you don't see me.

Because it's fact cherry. He is raping you, humiliating you, controlling and micro-managing everything. That is going to impact upon the children. There have been many posters on here highlighting exactly what they did know/see/hear from their mothers who were in your position...mothers that never ever knew the children knew.
They will watch how he treats you, and how he controls the house on a whole, and they may grow to think that that is normal...that that's an okay way to treat a woman, or be treated by a man.

You say leaving is what strong women do... fleeing to refuge felt like the weakest moment in my life, because I couldn't survive otherwise. Imho, surviving makes you strong. So yes, you are strong. Because you're still here, you're still going, raising your children. Reaching out on here for support and advice. It won't happen overnight. It will take time. You just have to be kind to yourself, there is no quick fix.

And can I just quickly come onto the point of who would have the children if you were taken into hospital - without him preventing you from having outside relationships, you'd more than likely rekindle old friendships, make new friends, friends that would help you on the off chance you might fall ill.

I'm a single parent, yes it is tough if I'm ill. But in the very unlikely event I wound up in hospital, I do now have a friend or two I could ask to help me out. Something I didn't have before, and didn't think I would ever have.

We know cherrycrumble because we KNOW.

We KNOW.

But they aren't me :)

Take this morning for instance, he told me to take my trousers off because they didn't suit me. So I did. That was in the bedroom - no children around.

I gave the children a banana and they were wandering around a bit, he came downstairs, made himself a cup of tea, went back upstairs and got ready, kissed us all goodbye, then the day carries on as normal, took the dog out, now I'm briefly posting this in the midst of some colouring activity!

He'll be back about half six, he will be fine. Then after the children are in bed he may continue to be fine or he may not but the point is all they see is their dad. And honestly - I know sometimes he doesn't treat me brilliantly, but I also know there are differences in parenting that are normal. He is stricter than me but definitely not abusive. Not to them.