Any support for women married to ex-public school boys?!

[DreamyParentoid]

DH is amazing, successful and in many ways a fabulous man at the same time as being very critical of me. I can see how it all comes from the place where he is in need but it feels like he'd rather make me perfect than deal with how things not being perfect makes him feel.

The things he says are all good points and what he is trying to achieve by pointing out what I'm not doing well are things you'd think you'd want for your family. Clean beautiful house, interesting times with friends, happy children, successful career and lots of sex and laughter etc

I'd love to be doing all those things, but just don't respond at all well to it being pointed out negatively. We have two daughters (3 and 5) and I'm back at work part time. I want him to be interested in me and supportive of what i'm doing and trying to do in terms of environmental work. I don't need him to be though, I can just get on with things for myself, but kindness and some support with childcare while I follow my projects would really help. He thinks he is being supportive by paying for most things and feels like he's already given so much that it's hard to give more. He is let down by me 'not picking up on his signals', the house being messy (though I seem to be trying to tidy it all the time and we have a cleaner for 4 hours a week) and our 'bad communication'.

I'd love to sort things out but am having dreams where I leave, am in a near desolate situation but still I feel free. Which is all fine in dream world but doesn't deal with paying for and bringing up two young children.

He doesn't want to get a divorce but things are so bad that we have talked about it. Basically he's great and things ought to be great, but he's also behaving like a bully.

What I'd love was if someone could come on who knew how to deal with men like this and could give me fabulous advice which helped me to be loving, get on with my own life and make the best of this situation! What I'm scared of is that I am going to have to leave this situation because I can't be myself when I'm being criticised and controlled so much of the time.

What I need is to be getting on with my own life so this doesn't affect me so much, but is that possible?

People can appear 'devoted' to someone but it's really a desperate effort to win their approval or love. Is this the case with your DD, he must be a Jekyll and hyde character if he can be critical and difficult for you but this perfect DF to DD.
I was brought up in a dysfunctional family - we DCs were the most perfect DCs and teens ever, on the surface, but we were just trying not to make life for DM worse.

The staying option is that we work on this with a counselor

You can't work on him. Only he can work on him. He needs counseling.

As long as he believes you are the problem it will be wasted time and money.

Standing on the brink of separation it does seem overwhelming, but you go through things one step at a time, over months and years, and a lot of it just involves setting things in action which then just go ahead more or less automatically.

You say you need to be more loving - who to?

AnyFucker, it may not sound like it, but I'm way further on. I'm not breastfeeding, have my mind back, I've remembered what I want to do with my life, gone back to work, been a professional again with the chance of financial independence. I've got a network of really good friends who can pick up my children from school and I can speak honestly with. I am worlds further on in those ways :) And I don't take the same kind of shit I did then at all. Its just that similar shit is being offered and I haven't got to the stage of taking no shit...

When you are reaching out for tenuous reasons like "cos public schoolboy" to minimise what is actually horrendous abuse then no you are not really any further along in extricating yourself

So now you have a support network in place. You can support yourself. That's fab. You can go. So go.

You are not on the edge of a cliff now, with the DC. You're in the choppy waters trying to keep afloat and hoping the unreliable skipper of your leaky boat will change.

You have the means to go: he is still the same. Joint counselling isn't recommended if there's emotional abuse. You could always go to counselling alone?

Your DD sees her father criticise her constantly: however well he treats DD that's damaging for her. And any DSs too of course.

Why did he split up with his ex btw? Have you ever heard the ex's side of the story?

You asked what a 'normal' relationship is like.
DH and I are a team. We work together to achieve joint goals. We pick up the slack for each other. We don't criticise each other - we are not there to evaluate and judge each other. If DH forgets something I may point it out, kindly, so that he knows. Most of the time I'll just sort it out, same as he does for me.

You say you're loyal but you're not. You're not staying out of loyalty you're staying out of fear.

Do you genuinely think that you, as an intelligent capable adult, lack the capacity to function on your own? Because if you do then he's done a real number on you.

It isn't his schooling. You seem like a nice person doing everything you can and thinking of reasons why he is a nasty turd. I think it's just because he is a nasty turd. Such people come from all walks of life, from the very best schools to the very worst schools.

My grandfather was an abuser with a very sympathetic back story (ex Eton, very emotionally abusive mother, spent 2 years in a concentration camp).

My grandad was violent & unfaithful but I spoke to my grandmother 50 years after their divorce and what stuck with her was the sense of inferiority. She'd never been able to live up to his expectations. Please don't underestimate how cruel he's being. The why's don't matter - that's for professionals to fix. You do not deserve to be treated like this.

When they divorced my grandmother had an amazing life (obviously hard too). Wonderful friends, an interesting career, fascinating hobbies and (hey she was single and 40 in the sixties) a great sex life too.

I haven't read all the replies here but one thing that sticks out is that lots of sex and laughter isn't something you can programme in to a relationship. It's foundations are based on mutual respect, affection and support as well as liking each other a lot. If those are lacking then what is there to laugh about and why would you want to have sex with someone who makes you feel small.

To go back to what I posted yesterday, standing firm and saying "No, that doesn't work for me" does make a difference and surprisingly quickly ime. It's difficult to start doing it but it's worth a try.

In my case things have changed although I have to say that my dh doesn't sound as difficult and critical as yours; it must be very hard to put up with. Don't waste your life on him; he must show signs of change, and quickly.

Good post 1wokeup.

I am married to an ex public schoolboy. The bit I recognise from your description is the desire for a "perfect life". The beautiful home, happy children, great career etc. I don't know if it's a public school thing or just his character.

However there are two big differences. First, in my case, DH puts this burden on himself not on me. He puts pressure on himself to do more, be better, work harder. This is not ideal in many ways but it's a million times better than him criticising me. Second, he has slowly realised that not all of life is in his control. Some things will not go perfectly and that's ok, and it happens to everyone at some point.

I don't know what to suggest tbh. I would not put up with DH whinging about imperfections in his life and laying them all at my door.

You've obviously moved yourself on quite a lot. Well done.

Now, for the next bit:

1)Think about attending an assertiveness course, or looking up and practising the principles. Being able to say calmly

, "yes I can see that's how it appears from your point of view, but it doesn't from mine" over and over is a great step forward.

2. work out whether you think, deep down, he's a nice guy. Could he learn to stop abusing? Would he be prepared to? If so, what do you want? If not, ditto ( imv it would be run for the hills)

3 ) as the next steps, how do you visualise yourself in ten years time?

4. ok, what are the next steps to get there? Think of this as a project, your long term aim, what you need to do to get there, short and medium term. Decide what is essential, what is desirable and what you don't really care about too much. That will enable you to negotiate.

5. cherish yourself. No matter what your decision, you are going to need to be strong.

Think about the things you are good at, the things you enjoy, and create lists if them to refer back to when you are feeling low. This is really important.. try to practise this standing up straight and breathing in a controlled manner too... practise while shopping, doing your Kegels, whatever.

Give yourself three nice things to have in prospect at any one time, now ( a fresh cup of coffee) , in the medium term( take dog for walk, have a bath, go to gym) , longer term, ( finish book, buy beautiful bottle of wine and drink a glass).

Find something nice to notice, eg the autumn leaves, your DDs' curls, little things. It will help, marginally.

6. if you possibly can, pick a new hobby that will take you out of the home and meeting others . Make new contacts. You will then be less in that claustrophobic vicious circle.

Thanks OrlandaFuriosa I'm going to do those things and Littletabbyocelot thanks for that too. Its good to hear. At the moment I'm beginning to see how I have let lots of negative thoughts/judgements kind of rule my life. Been an intense day walking on the hills trying to work out what I want to do. After much crying each time I thought about hurting my children I could just about get to the point where I could feel the part of me that would rather be by myself and free. It's hard to let that part of me near. Let alone let it do the thinking and plan what to do. I feel a depression in my chest. It seems such a pity.

It is a pity when things go wrong, but I think you have to ask yourself if this relationship is really going to improve bearing in mind what you know about him and his way of treating you.

If you stay with him and spend the rest of your life unhappy, (and watch the effects on your dc), then it will be an absolute tragedy.

Hi OP

Firstly, I'm really sorry to hear that you have been having such a difficult time at the moment, and that by the sounds of it, it has been going on for a long time.

I know you've had lots of advice on here already, some of which is excellent. I just wanted to post too as I have a slightly different perspective which I thought might be interesting - though its for you to decide whether its helpful :)

I went to boarding school at 10 - for only 2 years - because my parents lived abroad at that time. Until recently I honestly did not think that it had had a particularly significant effect on me, and certainly not one that had any untoward effect on my relationships.

However, having started family therapy as a minor add-on for some significant anxiety issues my DS was experiencing, I have come to realise that it was a much bigger deal that I had previously thought. My DH and I have also come to see that our relationship can be so much better for both of us if we can work on the various issues we have from our own pasts, and change the way we relate to one another. We are now having quite intensive (1-2 times a week) couples therapy. It is really hard at times, but hugely rewarding.

Although I really hope (am fairly confident) that I have not hurt my DH to the degree that your DH is hurting you, I can, sadly, really relate to some of the ways your DH is behaving.

I completely agree with the (fairly few) posters who have linked his behaviour with his early childhood experiences (boarding school at 7, parental split at 9) - which sounds like it was extremely traumatic for him - even if he may not be able to recognise that trauma for himself.

I have been overly critical of my very lovely DH and until very recently I could not see that the issues in our marriage were as much (if not more) due to my issues rather than anything he did or didn't do or was/wasn't.

I briefly looked at your much earlier thread which someone had linked and saw that your DH had talked about being neglected by you when your children arrived. I felt something like this too, when my first child was born - even though I was the main carer. Looking at this again with the help of a therapist I realise that this feeling has its roots (at least in part) in the lack of nurture which I received as a child. I can certainly see how your DH might have similar issues given the little I know of his early experiences.

None of this should be taken to mean that I think your DH should be excused his behaviour, or that you should stay in your marriage.

I completely agree with those who say you owe it to yourself (and ultimately probably your children) to leave a relationship which has no hope of improving from where it is now. It sounds pretty horrible for you. Though I don't underestimate how difficult and terrifying that route probably seems right now.

I can see that your husband has a long pattern of behaving unkindly towards you. I'm not sure whether underneath this he has enough redeeming features to make it worth the effort of trying to rescue your marriage? Is he basically a nice person or not? You could try making a list of what you do like/love about him perhaps.

If you do feel that underneath the difficulties in your marriage now there is a good, kind person there, then I would ask the next question: Is your husband is willing to join you in (reasonably intensive) couples therapy? If so then my experience is that it can be hugely life-improving.

Now I am starting to see where our issues come from (and that we both have personal issues to work on) that I am able to change my behaviour. It is not easy and I have always been very committed to the therapy process (my DH has been willing to attend but initially at least found the idea quite hard to commit to in practice - he has at times found it very hard). It is vitally important that both you and your DH are willing to give it a go - it is not a process that you can do without commitment from both partners. Even then, you do not know the outcome you will reach - but at least you will have developed a greater understanding of yourself which will stand you in very good stead, whichever direction your life takes in the future.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do xx

Great post, Sandrose.

Op, although i had no choice about leaving my marriage, I do (still, decades later) feel a big sadness about it. What could be better than being with the father of our children? All that hope and hard work come to nothing...

There are many griefs in life. Despite what we are led to believe, endings aren't always tied up neatly with no residual emotional upset.

I second getting some therapy to support you through the transition. If you do decide to split, that is. And even if you don't.

Had anyone mentioned the sunk costs fallacy on your thread?

I got divorced from a public school boy who behaved a bit like your husband (though he didn't want a perfect life like yours and didn't care about mess etc).

I just didn't fancy him any more and I felt he was an emotional bully. It was a lot of subtle things that made me feel this way.

The divorce was a nightmare - people like this don't take very well to other people taking control and saying enough.

However, if I could give one bit of advice it would be please be honest with him. Sit him down and tell him how his behaviour is affecting you. Tell him that he needs to work on it. Think about counselling together before you think about leaving him. If you have children, I really think you need to consider making sure you have both given it your all before you give up on the marriage.

Quite often men like this have absolutely no idea that their behaviour is making other people feel this way but also no idea how to fix it. You must have loved him at some stage to have children with him and get married so tell him he needs to have counselling and show some effort towards making a change in his behaviour.

I also agree with springydaffs - too often you see people advocating leaving marriages and in many cases it is the right thing to do. But it is also very very hard on everyone involved, including the children.

It sounds like op has flogged this horse for years. To no effect

Yes it is very hard on the children (usually..) but sometimes it has to be done

Ime the crucifying guilt and sorrow of the thought of the impact on the children kept me in a desperately abusive marriage for years. I wish I'd got out sooner if I'm honest. In the end i left for the kids.

What selfish behaviour do you get away with due to your schooling?

Madinche1sea and ethelb to answer your question about what boarding school has to do with it. I'm not putting his behaviour all on boarding school, sure there are difficult people in all walks of life, but I do think there is something quite specifically difficult about the effect the english upper class education system can sometimes have on the training of young men.

My main issue is the them being taught to pass judgement on people and things as a method of control. Sure we can all decide we don't like a jumper or whatever. Maybe it's just my experience, because both my DH and my husband are men who have gone to elite boys boarding schools. They have a ruling authority in their mannor and a technique of putting down that which is outside their understanding or comfort zone. My Dad is really different from my DH in loads of ways, but there is an underlying male orientated assumption of 'the right way of doing things' that seems to come from how they've been educated, brought up and I suppose their testosterone. And having their own emotions put down. Being trained to be very intellectual and brilliant but hard to be patient enough to empathically connect and understand the wonder of someone else's method who works differently.

You see it again and again in the people in government who have been through Eton and Oxbridge. Not all of the ones who've been to those schools. Some have developed deep emotional literacy. But some really haven't and have made decisions that have massively affected our whole education system amoungst other things.

Another aspect is how annoying a certain kind of arrogance and sense of entitlement is. Obviously this is more fool me because at first I was very attracted to how wonderful my DH is at his work, amazing he is with finding interesting people and places to go. Actually I still think all those qualities are real gifts. But now I see my own worth, what I want to do with my life and how he is unconsciously blocking those things through ignorance of understanding my needs, then I am less dazzled by the brilliance of his mental breakthroughs and more focused on making my own life work in my 40s.

I've found a counsellor that sounds super sharp and experienced. I was hoping to have a nice weekend then broach the subject after some friendly things have happened. It matters so much to me and I'd like him to see the good in it. We'll see...

:) xxxx

also Zebra999 and springdaffs thank you SO much. And Sandrose what an amazing post! So honest and helpful. I do think he is basically a good person, with such great gifts for the world, like all of us really. Some things about what we hold with our relationship are amazing, but we don't really enjoy each other a great deal. And he has this compulsive need to edit me or try and improve me a lot. I do really want to sit him down and explain sincerely to him what is going on and I think that can only work if there is a 3rd person in the room to help him to 'turn is listening ears on'!

I think this series of posts has been so helpful this time in giving me the reflection that I really don't have to settle for what I know is shoddy behaviour. I do need to put down some firm boundaries which I have been trying for a while, but he finds it hard to listen. I think I can put it on the line and create a space where he can see why I'm doing this. Then either he can or I will have to bite the bullet.

It's just helped me to see the tragedy of staying and spending the rest of my life feeling like I haven't really been able to fly.