MIL no-contact, DH sad, what to do?

[DilapidatedGlamourpuss]

This is going to be long, and MIL related. Sorry. I just don’t know what to do, and I don’t want to dripfeed. This is so identifying to anyone who knows me but I don’t even care anymore.

I’ve been with my DH since we were 18 (we met at uni), and we married this year. We are in our late twenties. We relocated earlier this year for his job to the US. Our relationship is mostly great and we are very happy together. There’s one problem, my MIL. We are now completely estranged and its breaking my DH’s heart. We are due to go home for Christmas and I have no idea what we’re going to do.

I’ve always felt that MIL has disapproved of me, and we have clashed over the years when I have refused to toe the party line like the rest of the family. Everyone does what she says, because if they don’t she cries, or is ill, or starts an almighty row. I’m not used to such a manipulative dynamic in my own family, and it made me very wary of her.

Whatever we did wasn’t the right thing. Jobs, where we chose to live, the fact we hadn’t bought a property by 25, our friends, the fact that I have had MH problems and have had some time out of work over the last few years due to ill health.

When I was 19 and disclosed that I had been abused she asked whether I had been tested for STIs, as she didn’t want me to pass anything on to her son. I was going through the ordeal of seeing the case go to trial, giving evidence in court and watching it be plastered all over the national news at the time. It made me feel so ashamed and dirty and I have never forgotten it. She tried to persuade my DH to leave me at the time, something he let slip. I let it go then, as I was grateful she hadn’t thrown me out of their home for my disclosure. I have come a long way since then.

Over the years, I veered between avoiding her and trying to be accepting of her personality, out of love for my then DP. There were times when we got on better, even though I still felt the underlying disapproval. So, last year we got engaged and planned a wedding very quickly as we wanted to move to the US. We would have got married in the following 18 months-2 years, but we had been given this opportunity of a lifetime and to be together needed to be married. And that’s where the trouble began.

She ruined our engagement party by crying and storming off when she found out we weren’t going to be married in church. She continually made digs about this, even though she knew I had been abused in a church setting and this was really triggering for me, which I explained to her. She goaded me into screaming at her and getting completely hysterical when we went round there by constant little digs about how what we were planning wasn’t good enough, because she didn’t have enough involvement. I tried to involve her in the beginning, but she wanted to entirely take over so I drew back.

In the interests of full disclosure, we asked her to make the cake as this is something she does as a hobby and is very good at. I thought it would be a good way to make her feel involved, but I think this was a mistake. They also offered money, which we accepted. This was also not a good idea - we were able to pay for the wedding but I think DH didn’t know how to not accept their offer. I did meet her and forgive her for the above, before Christmas. I made some compromises to try and make her happy – not having the humanist ceremony we really wanted and we tried to accommodate them with the food.

My DH left for the US in January a few months before the wedding, so on the whole I had to plan it without him, but was running everything past him over Skype. I met her for coffee with my DMum, as I had a feeling she was going to create a scene or try and manipulate me, which is exactly what happened. What was meant to be a talk about wedding plans turned into her screaming that the wedding would be a shambles, it wouldn’t be real as it wasn’t a church wedding and that she wasn’t coming. In a shopping centre. It was so embarrassing and I was very upset. We tried to cut the scene short, and walked away. She followed, shouting at us. This is because I told her we would be getting married in another room than originally planned, because the guest list had gone up. She then sent me a very malicious text after. My DP was in the US, absolutely heartbroken and bewildered that she had said she wasn’t going to come.

To cut a very long story short, she came to the wedding and we managed to keep it civil. This was through various people in the DH’s family putting pressure on me to meet her and talk about it. Everyone is desperate to placate her all the time. After the wedding, I discovered she had tried to manipulate the wedding planner into changing the room, been horrible to my bridesmaids when they changed their dresses in the evening, ran our wedding down to anyone who would listen and had a massive row with her DSis because I met her for lunch. As far as I know, they still aren’t speaking.

After this, I decided I could have no contact with her. She made the run up to our wedding the most miserable time of my life, when it should have been happy. She does not understand why I won’t have anything to do with her, even though she has had it explained by various family members. My DP is desperate to have us in the same room at Christmas- we are both homesick and he is so sad that we are estranged, even though he is completely on the same page that what she has done is awful. She is still his Mum and he loves her, even though he doesn’t like her behaviour. I hate seeing him cry about this, but I’m still so angry with her I think meeting her would make it worse. I feel such hatred and bitterness towards her for everything that has happened over the years and I don't want to inflame the situation further by losing my temper.

So – does anyone have any idea where to go from here? If you got to the end of this congrats, it was long.

Thank you Across, I should have thought of that as my previous employer had an EAP programme. I will look into that

Have been with my relatives that are visiting all day and it has been lovely. Just feel so sad that when I see the rest of my family at Christmas this will be there. It's like a shadow hanging over my life and I'm so tired of it. I love my DH so much and not being able to connect on this issue is making me feel so lonely.

I can see how you would feel this way. But remember that your DH and his mother are bringing this on, not you. Everyone has a basic right to be treated with respect.

I'm sure the counseling will help, and hopefully when your DH sees that you are serious and won't be manipulated by him into 'playing nice' for his mother, he'll join you.

OP - From what you say I assume you are in NYC or San Fran.

I am just outside of NYC and with therapists here so many of the good ones do not take insurance. However there are a couple of great places that charge based upon your income or circumstances if insurance doesn't cover it. The ackerman family institute is one of them. I have had so many people in our community recommend them for all sorts of family related issues and we have had an excellent experience using them to help navigate raising a child with special needs in our family of three children. The MIL issue also right up their alley.

Put down the rope !!!
Several people have tried, apparently with some degree of success to pass you their problems. Your DH chief amongst them.
And although their is some great advice here, a lot of it involves you "dealing" with these problems.
If your DH wants you in the same room as his mum, let him organise it. Offer nothing. He knows the parameters of the problem, he knows how she behaves, he knows your limits. Without expecting either of you to change..let him explain to you how this will work.
He is caught up on a wish, and if he understands that the only person he can change is himself, then he needs to change his wish into something more realistic .

It's his choice not to connect though op. You may find after a while that sadness shadow turns to anger or resentment which quite frankly he deserved.

He seems to want everything the way he wants it, a wishful fantasy that would never be a reality. So he tries for his next best thing, sacrificing his families happiness for his near enough fantasy.

Didn't post at the time but have been following the thread. Just wondered how you are OP, you sounded so distressed by it all.

Hi all. Quick update- DH and I aren't talking much about the issue at the moment as we have guests staying with us. However, from talking to them (they are from his side of the family) it has made me even more sure that I've made the right decision not to engage with her. She adds nothing to my life other than unhappiness and worry and anger.

So here's hoping I can stay strong over Christmas and enjoy it for whatever it will be. I will be updating more soon, but I wanted to thank everyone on this thread for their kindness.

I wish you a good outcome on this, whatever that may be.

With Best Wishes 💐

Me too op - delurking to wish you good luck

Just about to name change but I will come back and check in with you.

Christmas can be hard enough to arrange when people are more or less normal but there are different elements to consider so I really don't envy you.

Glad to hear you've had some validation that it isn't you and that your resolve has been strengthened.

Francis he's well aware that other people are horrified by MIL's behaviour towards me (and him). I mean, he knows it's unacceptable. But as his cousin who is visiting said, he's unlikely to go any further with it and confront her as he is so afraid of her.

Name change...

Can you get hold of the Toxic parents/in laws book even an online/Kindle version? Might give the 2 of you some guidance.

Hello all, it's been a while. I thought I would give an update (though nothing has really changed)...

We didn't discuss it for a few weeks. We both avoided the subject as it always leads to the same thing; it makes us both miserable as we will never agree. I am still adamant I don't want my MIL in my life as she has hurt me and made me miserable. And my DH is still sad because he sees this as the fragmentation of his family unit. He agrees MIL has behaved appallingly but feels he 'has to make a choice' between us. I am not asking for him to do this. He won't seek counselling to talk about his feelings as he says it is pointless.

So we had a conversation a few nights ago. We discussed me returning to the UK for Christmas a few days earlier than planned. It suits me in one sense, as I am missing home and a few extra days to see people would be nice. Also, I need to make some practical arrangements for a wedding we are attending. I am also returning early so as to avoid seeing MIL at the airport.

DH told me that he had spoken to his parents on Skype, and that his Dad would like to talk to me before Christmas. He says that he agrees with me on a lot of the issues. I am unconvinced and think the pressure for me to bury the hatchet is going to ramp up again. Not sure how to deal with this. I told DP that while I was willing to speak to FIL, I won't be cajoled into changing my mind. He wasn't best pleased. Even having this discussion with him was making me shake all over, it makes me that upset and angry.

I can only see this conversation going badly, and my MIL trying to pull the strings in the background to get what she wants. Aargh...

Does your MIL even want to see you? If she dislikes you, then surely she'd be happier seeing your DH on his own? That's probably why she's not backing down, she doesn't want you there & she'll be glad if it causes problems between you and DH.

Why don't you both stay with one of your relatives, spend Christmas morning together then he can go and see his parents either Christmas afternoon or Boxing Day if he wants. There is no reason why you should both spend the day with his family rather than yours anyway.

The compromise will be that he speaks to MIL face-to-face and sees what her attitude is. If he can assure you that she is apologetic then you agree to attend a family gathering that she will be present at, with the understanding that you will walk straight out if she starts. Don't meet her again for the first time on Christmas Day, emotions & alcohol always run too high then anyway.

I feel so angry on your behalf OP. You have been through so much and been so strong. And your DH is being very manipulative - you are not forcing him to make a choice, he is putting that onto you. Someone needs to give him a kick up the arse - him playing 'poor me' is insulting and ridiculous after what his mother has said and done to you.

It seems to me that if you keep doing what you have always done, (compromise, be a decent person) you will get what you always get (abuse from MIL). Stay strong and change the script!

This sucks but it is better to sort this all now than when you have kids. They make things much more complicated.

Have some and op. You sound lovely.

Oh no, he's really not taking any responsibility nor is MIL

It sounds like the best thing is for you to come home a bit early as planned. I would also suggest that you do not see FIL on your own. Is the plan for DH to be there or can you take someone you trust with you?

If I were you I would insist on couples counselling once you're back home in the new year. You really don't want to bring children into a set up like this.

Sorry to say this OP but your DH is a complete wimp!

Shelby I think MIL would be very happy to cause problems between us. As far as I'm aware she is bewildered that I am deviating from the prescribed script for everyone and not putting family first! She dislikes me but I know would love an opportunity to pick at me/to get sympathy and attention from others.

Toothfairy as you say, compromise and being a decent person hasn't got me anywhere as she will continue in the same patterns as before. When I told DH that was a manipulative thing to say he looked like I was speaking another language. He seems to have no way of understanding that despite everything I don't want to ever see her again

Kiki I won't be meeting up with FIL. Any communication will be done by email I have decided, so I can have a copy and consider my responses before I make them. DH seems to think it is his responsibility to 'fix this'. Though how solution is one I won't be going along with.

SpeakJive my DH is handling this badly. Really badly. But he has spent a lifetime dealing with her shit and he is in some way afraid of her because she can be very poisonous. Throwing out insults doesn't really help me

And apart from all this I love him very much and want this to work so badly

Your DH is still very much in a FOG state (fear, obligation, guilt) when it comes to his toxic parents and that may never change.

He is handling this really badly, I think at heart he wants you all to get along so he does not have to deal with any of this at all. He just cannot deal with this at all so his way of dealing with it is to switch off. That is all part of his overall "happy family" fantasy. He is far, far more afraid of his mother (and to a lesser extent his enabler of a father) that he ever is or would be of you. He is still actively seeking her approval, approval that is very conditional and that she will never give him.

If he continues to refuse counselling (and he will likely do so) I would consider seeing a therapist on my own.

Am glad to read that you are not going to meet FIL; he is really her hatchet man here and cannot be at all relied upon. In many ways he is as bad as his wife is and he has certainly failed to protect his son from the excesses of his wife's behaviours. Your FIL is a weak bystander of a man.

You may want this to work so very badly but it may well be that he is really not as committed to your relationship as you are. His mother is always going to be a problem for you. Do not also fall into the sunken costs fallacy; that basically causes people to keep on making poor relationship decisions.

Oh OP I really feel for you, please stand by your decision to go no contact, I gave in when my dh wanted to regain contact when I was pregnant with ds. What I can say now, is that your hurt will not leave you, just as she won't stop being a narcissistic witch. I made myself physically ill with stress, forcing a relationship that was never going to be normal. At every opportunity my mil manipulated and abused my dh and she was very nearly the end for us. When I went into premature labour at 31 weeks during my second pregnancy, (with severe SPD/ pgp) I was admitted into hospital. They managed to stop the labour but kept me in on strict bed rest, as every time I mobilised my contractions started again. My dh and toddler ds were meant to stay at my parents (5 mins from hospital) but mil convinced him to move in with her whilst I was in hospital. Then her poison started, as soon as she had dh alone in her house she was feeding him poison about me. She told him I was lazy and had deliberately got myself in hospital so he would have to run after me. She told him that I was pathetic and that she would be a much better Mother to our son . She told him he could take our two year old son, divorce me and move to New Zealand with them. She said that I would have our new baby, so we could have one each! The poison and evil that was being fed into my dh's ears very nearly destroyed us! He would be rude and treat me like dirt when he brought our son into visit me. He would call me and say I was ruining their (his and ds's) lives for making them visit me. He would drop our two year old on my bed then disappear down to the coffee shop, never once asking how I was or telling me he loved me. I spent weeks in floods of tears! Three weeks after I was admitted, my very verbal ds asked me 'Why Nana no like you Mama?', I said of course his Nana liked me, then he said 'no Mama, Nana say bad, bad things to Daddy bout my Mama' 'Nana shout at Daddy bout you'. I wanted to cry! I called my Mum to look after ds and when dh came back I asked him to push me in a wheelchair to a side visitors room that was empty. I confronted him about his Mother and everything spilled out of him. I told him that I was sending our ds to my parents, as he wasn't protecting him from his Mothers poison. I could have left him that day, but I am so stubborn and was absolutely not prepared to let her have her way! He left his Mothers and moved in with my parents. He made an effort and we agreed to reassess our relationship once our daughter was born.

I was in hospital for several more weeks until I went into labour at 36 weeks. But our relationship had went from fantastic to awful in those weeks he stayed with his Mother. When our daughter was born he was like a stranger in the room. The thing that saved us was our tiny baby, when she wrapped her little fingers round his finger he fell in love. It was like he had just woke up from a terrible dream and realised just how much he would lose. When we got home he apologised and begged me not to leave him. I wanted to go no contact with his parents but he promised to protect me and as mil was flying over to be with FIL for 8 months in New Zealand I put up with it. However we had constant arguments, I was paranoid about what she would be saying to dh on the phone. I would act like nothing happened when she visited, whilst feeling sick to my stomach when she held our baby daughter or son. And as she couldn't help herself the abuse continued, even worse than before. In fact the last time his df even joined in (after all of the years thinking fil was just quiet for an easy life, it turned out he was making the bullets whilst mil fired them! ) they jointly ran dh down, telling him what a disappointment he was and then ran me down. They called us for everything and even brought our ds into it. Seeing how broken dh was and hearing their vitriol about us and ds I made the decision to cut contact. I can honestly say that it was the best decision I ever made. I didn't stop dh from contacting them, but when he saw the difference having no contact at home made, he decided to go nc too. That was five years ago and we are happier than we have ever been. Our marriage has never been stronger! My dh has had three lots of counselling to recover from the messed up childhood that having two narcissistic sociopaths for parents caused. He told me everything that had gone on, how close he came to listening to her and losing me. He apologised for the pain that he put me through and promised that he would never let her back into our lives.

My dh had been conditioned to thinking that the way she behaved was normal. It was not normal, when he realised that his parents were both narcissists it truly opened his eyes! I looked up everything I could after his g.p told him about narcissism, my dh spent a week going through it all and was shocked at how much he identified with. Has your dh read anything about narcissism? Children of narcissists are often either golden children or scapegoats, they can grow up to either be narcissists themselves or are more vulnerable to other narcissists in life. My dh was the golden child right up until about a year before we met. Once he took control of his own life she punished him and fought to regain control of him. I have never been controlling, it took years for my dh to realise that he didn't need to rebel against me.

Your description of your dh's behaviour however, gave me chills, he is mirroring narcissistic behaviour in his treatment of you. I would call him on it, you are a grown woman and you have every right to protect yourself from your MIL. Your dh should be incredibly angry at his Mother for her treatment of you! He has absolutely no right to gaslight you or manipulate you into doing anything that makes you unwell or uncomfortable!!!!. I know how ill my in-laws made me, I have a chronic illness which is made worse by stress. Please protect yourself and save yourself from a lifetime of hurt and emotional abuse at the hands of your MIL!

My mil behaved exactly the same way when bil was in a relationship, he proposed but his gf refused unless he was prepared to stand up to mil. He chose his Mother and is now a lonely batchelor back living with MIL. Youngest bil is very secretive but has never introduced any girlfriend to his family. Dh's brothers have backed his parents up and have zero contact with dh. Its like he has been erased. Narcissists are like leapords they never change their spots!

Attila I think you're exactly right, he doesn't want to (or can't) deal with this so has switched off. FIL is a weak bystander and I feel contempt that he hasn't done more to defend his child.

I think I will have to arrange therapy for myself, even if he won't come - the issues around control this brings up tie into my abuse and I'm finding myself plagued by flashbacks right now. They might seem like two seperate issues, but her comments to me on being abused/her controlling behaviour is something I find very triggering.

mummyto2monkeys It sounds like you've been through hell with your MIL and DH. My DH also thinks his childhood etc was normal, but it can't have been with her. He also does the thing where he thinks he needs to 'rebel', he'll go AWOL if I say something he doesn't like as his way of maintaining control. Except I'm not trying to control him, just have my own opinion on his mother

Was gutted to find out today I can't come home early, it's too expensive to change the flights. So I'm stuck with the airport problem again. I wish we could just get a taxi and be done with it, but I still don't know where we would go after that

Hi Kiki with another name change...

Can your parents meet you? Can you arrange a taxi pick up/get a coach?

Sending you a big hug, sounds very stressful x

Hi Drowning, nice to see you again

My parents picking us up will be seen as a big snub to her and will create even more trouble. Friends have offered to pick us up but DH isn't interested. He is so blinkered at the moment I have suggested the taxi idea and got nowhere, but I think I'll have to try again.

My DMum said to me last night online that while she thinks I'm right to have nothing to do with her she couldn't live like this. Not terribly helpful tbh, but that is most people's reaction.

To top it all off, my UK credit card has been used fraudulently so I've spent most of the morning on the phone trying to sort that out. I'm trying to maintain a sense of humour today but it is wearing v.thin!