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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

MIL no-contact, DH sad, what to do?

805 replies

DilapidatedGlamourpuss · 19/10/2016 17:17

This is going to be long, and MIL related. Sorry. I just don’t know what to do, and I don’t want to dripfeed. This is so identifying to anyone who knows me but I don’t even care anymore.

I’ve been with my DH since we were 18 (we met at uni), and we married this year. We are in our late twenties. We relocated earlier this year for his job to the US. Our relationship is mostly great and we are very happy together. There’s one problem, my MIL. We are now completely estranged and its breaking my DH’s heart. We are due to go home for Christmas and I have no idea what we’re going to do.

I’ve always felt that MIL has disapproved of me, and we have clashed over the years when I have refused to toe the party line like the rest of the family. Everyone does what she says, because if they don’t she cries, or is ill, or starts an almighty row. I’m not used to such a manipulative dynamic in my own family, and it made me very wary of her.

Whatever we did wasn’t the right thing. Jobs, where we chose to live, the fact we hadn’t bought a property by 25, our friends, the fact that I have had MH problems and have had some time out of work over the last few years due to ill health.

When I was 19 and disclosed that I had been abused she asked whether I had been tested for STIs, as she didn’t want me to pass anything on to her son. I was going through the ordeal of seeing the case go to trial, giving evidence in court and watching it be plastered all over the national news at the time. It made me feel so ashamed and dirty and I have never forgotten it. She tried to persuade my DH to leave me at the time, something he let slip. I let it go then, as I was grateful she hadn’t thrown me out of their home for my disclosure. I have come a long way since then.

Over the years, I veered between avoiding her and trying to be accepting of her personality, out of love for my then DP. There were times when we got on better, even though I still felt the underlying disapproval. So, last year we got engaged and planned a wedding very quickly as we wanted to move to the US. We would have got married in the following 18 months-2 years, but we had been given this opportunity of a lifetime and to be together needed to be married. And that’s where the trouble began.

She ruined our engagement party by crying and storming off when she found out we weren’t going to be married in church. She continually made digs about this, even though she knew I had been abused in a church setting and this was really triggering for me, which I explained to her. She goaded me into screaming at her and getting completely hysterical when we went round there by constant little digs about how what we were planning wasn’t good enough, because she didn’t have enough involvement. I tried to involve her in the beginning, but she wanted to entirely take over so I drew back.

In the interests of full disclosure, we asked her to make the cake as this is something she does as a hobby and is very good at. I thought it would be a good way to make her feel involved, but I think this was a mistake. They also offered money, which we accepted. This was also not a good idea - we were able to pay for the wedding but I think DH didn’t know how to not accept their offer. I did meet her and forgive her for the above, before Christmas. I made some compromises to try and make her happy – not having the humanist ceremony we really wanted and we tried to accommodate them with the food.

My DH left for the US in January a few months before the wedding, so on the whole I had to plan it without him, but was running everything past him over Skype. I met her for coffee with my DMum, as I had a feeling she was going to create a scene or try and manipulate me, which is exactly what happened. What was meant to be a talk about wedding plans turned into her screaming that the wedding would be a shambles, it wouldn’t be real as it wasn’t a church wedding and that she wasn’t coming. In a shopping centre. It was so embarrassing and I was very upset. We tried to cut the scene short, and walked away. She followed, shouting at us. This is because I told her we would be getting married in another room than originally planned, because the guest list had gone up. She then sent me a very malicious text after. My DP was in the US, absolutely heartbroken and bewildered that she had said she wasn’t going to come.

To cut a very long story short, she came to the wedding and we managed to keep it civil. This was through various people in the DH’s family putting pressure on me to meet her and talk about it. Everyone is desperate to placate her all the time. After the wedding, I discovered she had tried to manipulate the wedding planner into changing the room, been horrible to my bridesmaids when they changed their dresses in the evening, ran our wedding down to anyone who would listen and had a massive row with her DSis because I met her for lunch. As far as I know, they still aren’t speaking.

After this, I decided I could have no contact with her. She made the run up to our wedding the most miserable time of my life, when it should have been happy. She does not understand why I won’t have anything to do with her, even though she has had it explained by various family members. My DP is desperate to have us in the same room at Christmas- we are both homesick and he is so sad that we are estranged, even though he is completely on the same page that what she has done is awful. She is still his Mum and he loves her, even though he doesn’t like her behaviour. I hate seeing him cry about this, but I’m still so angry with her I think meeting her would make it worse. I feel such hatred and bitterness towards her for everything that has happened over the years and I don't want to inflame the situation further by losing my temper.

So – does anyone have any idea where to go from here? If you got to the end of this congrats, it was long.

OP posts:
BreakWindandFire · 15/05/2017 10:23

Vodka, I remember that earlier in your thread you mentioned that your SIL had experienced many of the same problems with your MIL, but had successfully managed to repel her. Is there any way your BIL could give his brother, your h, a very strong talking to, and warn him that he's risking his marriage?

ohfourfoxache · 15/05/2017 10:36

I know he's upset, Vodka, but he's behaving like an utter cuntweasel.

You are not to blame in any of this. Truly you're not. He is blaming you for what has gone on, as he's too bloody cowardly to realise (or admit to) where the true problem lies.

I think you've got some thinking to do love. Life is too short- you simply can't put up with this any more. Something has got to give. If he had shown any form of regret that his bitch of a mother had sent you that rant then he would at least have shown that he understood. But he's now effectively punishing you for not being compliant which is a whole different ball game.

TheWorldHasGoneToCake · 15/05/2017 10:44

Hope you got some sleep. Don't know what time it is over there, guessing early hours now. Good luck for the days ahead x

mikeyssister · 15/05/2017 11:16

I was feeling sorry for your DH and also annoyed with him. I felt that he was between a rock and a hard place. Torn between what he felt was his duty to his mother and his love for you.

And then I read Rogue's post and it suddenly seems so much clearer. Now I'm just really annoyed with him.

We're here if you need/want to talk.

ohfourfoxache · 15/05/2017 11:27

Rogue that is a bloody good post. I'm so sorry you went through what you did Thanks

Hissy · 15/05/2017 11:49

rogue that's an outstanding post, an insightful observation and very powerful too!

It's awful to see how so many are so blighted by disfunctional families

AceholeRimmer · 15/05/2017 12:15

Yep rogue has it. If he really loved you and didn't want to hurt you, he would let you stay away as you wish.

FizzyGreenWater · 15/05/2017 12:38

I honestly think that the only way you are going to really solve this - and in a way it looks unsolvable - is to book that flight home and tell him you've had enough. And it's up to him what he does now but the choice is you or them.

And stick to it.

This is not going to change and I cannot imagine the world of unhappiness you are going to be signing up for if you decide to have children.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 15/05/2017 15:04

Selfish bastard. He should have been checking that you were OK after her rant. He should have been telling her to stay the fuck away from you.

I guess now you know where you stand. Where you stand is being shat on by her as he wrings his hands feeling sorry for himself for having to stand there impotently watching her shit on you while being cross with you for not wiping her arse afterwards.

ohfourfoxache · 15/05/2017 16:07

Vodka I know that this doesn't make for easy reading; are you ok?

VodkaLimeSoda27 · 15/05/2017 16:10

So, an update. He got back late last night and didn't have much success talking about it. We did talk in the early hours (knackered today). It was slightly more constructive. He says that she's ruining everything and that this is all down to her, I haven't done anything wrong. I'm still furious that he doesn't recognise that it's not on to fuck off for 12 hours at a time without a word to me. It is manipulative and I've told him the behaviour stinks and I'm not putting up with it anymore.

The only mitigating factor is I've never seen him like this- he can barely string a sentence together and keeps saying he can't remember stuff like how he got home, like stuff is slipping past him. Don't get me wrong, I'm still bloody angry, but I am worried about him too. I have been in touch with several therapists today for an urgent appointment and am waiting for callbacks.

He is meeting her for lunch before they fly home and says he will be confronting her about the message because she has fucked everything up again. I don't know if he will. I have told him that if things don't change I'll go home for a while. He said he's scared if I do that I won't come back.

I have not ruled out going home for a while. I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but I do know that I can't live like this.

VodkaLimeSoda27 · 15/05/2017 16:11

Sorry fourfox x-posted with you there. I'm holding it together.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 15/05/2017 16:16

Why isn't he ringing round the therapists?

It is him who has the issues, not you, so you finding a therapist who you think is a good fit isn't necessarily going to be right for him. Especially if he's having some kind of breakdown about it.

Surely he should be talking to them in the callbacks? Have you and he at least agreed a brief for the therapists?

ohfourfoxache · 15/05/2017 16:20

Think that's the second time we've x posted on this thread! Grin

Vodka I'm going to be brutally honest: I think you should come home for a while. I think he needs a kick up the arse to realise what he is going to lose if he doesn't buck the fuck up. And as for him being scared that you won't come back, let him be scared. Let him absolutely fucking shit himself. Because I really believe that there has to be a monumental shit storm before he realises what a manipulative pig he has been.

I'm not saying that you should come back permanently or split up (yet) but he needs to realise that he actually needs to do something and not just manipulate you into compliance

DaemonPantalaemon · 15/05/2017 16:20

Don't get me wrong, I'm still bloody angry, but I am worried about him too

As I said before, he uses the fact that you care about him to manipulate you. You were close to going home, but he has successfully turned this around so that you are now worrying about him! Vodka, you are in a relationship with manipulative, gaslighting man who puts himself first. The sooner you see that, the better it will be for you. If you read nothing else, please read Rogue's post. It is clear as light from all your posts that the problem here is really not just your MIL.

VodkaLimeSoda27 · 15/05/2017 16:29

Fair point, he should be ringing round the therapists. I just automatically jumped in there and started doing it. Callbacks would be done together.

Daemon I am reading all the posts. I know MIL is not my only problem here and tbh that pains me far more than any of her bullshit. I'm trying to digest a bit at a time.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 15/05/2017 16:31

Is he playing mental health top trumps? You are at breaking point due to his behaviour, so he has to be closer to breaking point.

A manipulative person would need to get you back into your caretaker role, back remembering that his needs should take priority. If his needs don't take priority then the outcomes are worse than if your needs aren't met.

A manipulative person might do this subconsciously: they really do feel worse, they really do suffer when your needs trump theirs, to the point where they make themselves more ill than you so that order is returned to their universe.

VodkaLimeSoda27 · 15/05/2017 16:32

Fourfox he definitely does need a kick up the arse to see what he might lose. I can't believe I'm even here talking about this- we were so happy for many years Sad

FizzyGreenWater · 15/05/2017 16:34

he can barely string a sentence together and keeps saying he can't remember stuff like how he got home, like stuff is slipping past him

Hmm Oscar-winning stuff.

I've read most of your thread now and sorry but this seems to be very much part of the pattern - one of his defaults is metaphorically hyperventilating a bit when things are really bad as a form of virtue signalling - he'd love to sort this out but is so hard on him oooh he just can't cope. See the crying when the counselling thing first came up. And - then he copes! And switches back to putting pressure on you to do things (cruise, meeting them) that you don't want to do.

He is very, very manipulative. Probably very much as a result of being brought up by his mother and learning that being honest, straightforward and caring for those you love isn't part of the 'relationship map'. Possibly because he is more like her than he cares to admit and you care to see. Possibly because she has manipulated him to such an extent over the years that he literally can do nothing that does not ultimately end in pleasing her and getting her off your (his) back.

None of these options point towards him truly choosing a life with you that works - ie does not have her in it.

You will have this overshadowing you for the rest of your life, I think.

You might get him to the point now where you cut contact properly, and it will pop up again when you have a child/move back to the UK/MIL becomes ill - any number of scenarios where there is a reason for an 'in'.

He is looking no further than the end of his nose with this, really. It's simply a case of whatever works right now to juggle you and MIL. He will continue to push you to try and get you to agree to things, because it works. When you get angry enough to explode, he cries/shakes/manipulates to stop you going nuclear, because that works too (like now). And replay.

I would really advise you to book a ticket home. He's afraid you won't come back? Yes, he should be.

VodkaLimeSoda27 · 15/05/2017 16:35

I don't know RunRabbit. He is one of those people who, in the normal order of things, is pretty happy, functional, never experienced something like depression. He definitely has sympathy for people who have mental health difficulties but no actual insight and I think always prides himself on his resilience and happy go lucky nature (and thought it could never happen to him Hmm)

To see him in such an altered state is strange and uncomfortable.

Hissy · 15/05/2017 16:37

Vodka he doesn't need to confront her about the message.

If I were him I wouldn't even bring it up.

Unless she mentions yet one more shitty thing about you, in which case he can say 'I saw that email, and support her 100% in her decision to have nothing more to do with you and FIL for that matter. I'm not going to discuss it with you as I know what I think, so let's get this lunch finished and you off onto the plane."

And he can wrap it all up then. Put THEM back on the back foot and take things into his own hands and power again.

Sit down with h and do the thing that rogue says, about swapping out the inlaws for the subject of sex or money or food or freedom and see if he can see how the manipulation makes everything feel, and how wrong it is.

I'm convinced you and h will be fine, you will get through this, but boy is he going to have to work flipping hard to get thru the therapy he needs.

Your marriage is worth the effort, HE is worth the effort.

Hissy · 15/05/2017 16:39

He's using manipulation because that's all he knows! That's what his life was and her visit is taking him back there

This is not acting up, its acting out.

His world is unravelling, he can see a glimpse of the right side and it's destroying everything he knew.

ohfourfoxache · 15/05/2017 16:42

Vodka if it's any consolation I know the feeling Sad

I posted a couple of pages back I think about my experiences with PIL. I would NEVER have thought that I'd get to the point of finding a solicitor and telling him that, although I didn't want to divorce, I felt that there was no other option left open for us.

Now, that was a massive massive kick up the arse and it worked. It may work for you, it may not.

I think the other problem is that, when you get together quite young, you tend to get manipulated into thinking that certain things are "normal". You were 18, weren't you, when you started going out? I was 17, so a very similar age. I was told repeatedly that I was over sensitive; you've been conditioned into think that there is something that you alone can do about this (i.e. that you have to accept it). You have now realised that you don't have to accept it. Your husband now has to realise the same thing

ZeroFeedback · 15/05/2017 17:06

My experience is similar in many ways but obviously not the same, I'm male for a start.

My MIL did not really like me from the beginning.

I was too sure of myself, not earning enough, difficult to read were among the first few bits of feedback my DW received about me.

22 years later my relationship with the MIL is cordial but nothing more.

DW and I had a fight every time I said something wrong, looked in the wrong mood or committed some kind of unconscious sleight that the MIL then took out on DW as soon as I was not around.

My view is she is v controlling and manipulative of DW and BIL, but it is only a view.

We had a number of awful moments (it for much worse when we had kids; three failed family holidays) and some small positive ones but don't want to hijack.

I thought we would break up a number of times because it got to the point where DW would accept everything MIL had to say and think the worst of me.

I do not blame DW for those times although I am still v angry about some of them if I allow myself to be.

I keep MIL at a distance but do not ask DW or DC to choose - DC still ask why I always have to work when they, DW and MIL go away together.

I work on the basis that DW is stuck between two people she loves and I can make it worse or not.

DW and I understand each other much better and MIL and I have established boundaries between us. We do not ask DW to act as intermediary.

My point is really to try and be understand your DH's pain where possible, accept that we all have a part to play and work with him within any boundaries you are comfortable setting.

I will probably get flamed because I don't leap to him being EA or whatever but can hopefully help reassure you that it is possible to come out the other side without losing your marriage or sense of self

Flowers
SeaEagleFeather · 15/05/2017 17:06

I think that this might, might, actually be where he begins to break through the FOG.

It can be deep and horrendous to get out of. I don't think it's hopeless; it could be the start of something; but I do think that you need to put your own hurt over his and her behaviour first now and to act according to YOUR needs. Going back might be a good idea if it is the right thing for YOU. It sounds like it is.

You can't make this journey for him, only he can. Right now he has to make it alone too, you can't travel with him. He has to grow up and become a full adult and that's a lonely journey sometimes.