MIL no-contact, DH sad, what to do?

[DilapidatedGlamourpuss]

This is going to be long, and MIL related. Sorry. I just don’t know what to do, and I don’t want to dripfeed. This is so identifying to anyone who knows me but I don’t even care anymore.

I’ve been with my DH since we were 18 (we met at uni), and we married this year. We are in our late twenties. We relocated earlier this year for his job to the US. Our relationship is mostly great and we are very happy together. There’s one problem, my MIL. We are now completely estranged and its breaking my DH’s heart. We are due to go home for Christmas and I have no idea what we’re going to do.

I’ve always felt that MIL has disapproved of me, and we have clashed over the years when I have refused to toe the party line like the rest of the family. Everyone does what she says, because if they don’t she cries, or is ill, or starts an almighty row. I’m not used to such a manipulative dynamic in my own family, and it made me very wary of her.

Whatever we did wasn’t the right thing. Jobs, where we chose to live, the fact we hadn’t bought a property by 25, our friends, the fact that I have had MH problems and have had some time out of work over the last few years due to ill health.

When I was 19 and disclosed that I had been abused she asked whether I had been tested for STIs, as she didn’t want me to pass anything on to her son. I was going through the ordeal of seeing the case go to trial, giving evidence in court and watching it be plastered all over the national news at the time. It made me feel so ashamed and dirty and I have never forgotten it. She tried to persuade my DH to leave me at the time, something he let slip. I let it go then, as I was grateful she hadn’t thrown me out of their home for my disclosure. I have come a long way since then.

Over the years, I veered between avoiding her and trying to be accepting of her personality, out of love for my then DP. There were times when we got on better, even though I still felt the underlying disapproval. So, last year we got engaged and planned a wedding very quickly as we wanted to move to the US. We would have got married in the following 18 months-2 years, but we had been given this opportunity of a lifetime and to be together needed to be married. And that’s where the trouble began.

She ruined our engagement party by crying and storming off when she found out we weren’t going to be married in church. She continually made digs about this, even though she knew I had been abused in a church setting and this was really triggering for me, which I explained to her. She goaded me into screaming at her and getting completely hysterical when we went round there by constant little digs about how what we were planning wasn’t good enough, because she didn’t have enough involvement. I tried to involve her in the beginning, but she wanted to entirely take over so I drew back.

In the interests of full disclosure, we asked her to make the cake as this is something she does as a hobby and is very good at. I thought it would be a good way to make her feel involved, but I think this was a mistake. They also offered money, which we accepted. This was also not a good idea - we were able to pay for the wedding but I think DH didn’t know how to not accept their offer. I did meet her and forgive her for the above, before Christmas. I made some compromises to try and make her happy – not having the humanist ceremony we really wanted and we tried to accommodate them with the food.

My DH left for the US in January a few months before the wedding, so on the whole I had to plan it without him, but was running everything past him over Skype. I met her for coffee with my DMum, as I had a feeling she was going to create a scene or try and manipulate me, which is exactly what happened. What was meant to be a talk about wedding plans turned into her screaming that the wedding would be a shambles, it wouldn’t be real as it wasn’t a church wedding and that she wasn’t coming. In a shopping centre. It was so embarrassing and I was very upset. We tried to cut the scene short, and walked away. She followed, shouting at us. This is because I told her we would be getting married in another room than originally planned, because the guest list had gone up. She then sent me a very malicious text after. My DP was in the US, absolutely heartbroken and bewildered that she had said she wasn’t going to come.

To cut a very long story short, she came to the wedding and we managed to keep it civil. This was through various people in the DH’s family putting pressure on me to meet her and talk about it. Everyone is desperate to placate her all the time. After the wedding, I discovered she had tried to manipulate the wedding planner into changing the room, been horrible to my bridesmaids when they changed their dresses in the evening, ran our wedding down to anyone who would listen and had a massive row with her DSis because I met her for lunch. As far as I know, they still aren’t speaking.

After this, I decided I could have no contact with her. She made the run up to our wedding the most miserable time of my life, when it should have been happy. She does not understand why I won’t have anything to do with her, even though she has had it explained by various family members. My DP is desperate to have us in the same room at Christmas- we are both homesick and he is so sad that we are estranged, even though he is completely on the same page that what she has done is awful. She is still his Mum and he loves her, even though he doesn’t like her behaviour. I hate seeing him cry about this, but I’m still so angry with her I think meeting her would make it worse. I feel such hatred and bitterness towards her for everything that has happened over the years and I don't want to inflame the situation further by losing my temper.

So – does anyone have any idea where to go from here? If you got to the end of this congrats, it was long.

I think the issue for people now, Vodka, is that a lot of us have been on your journey for a while now, have invested in wanting to make sure you are OK, and are very concerned for you. Some people are idiots (suggesting you just suck it up and be the "bigger person" when they clearly don't know the full story as we do), most care, but those with similar experience know that this situation isn't going to change, they've been there themselves and feel powerless to make you see this and are perhaps expressing themselves quite strongly as a result.

As I said in my last post, she isn't going to change. But nor is your man. He says one or two things to placate but he has, really, already chosen his mother over you. I'm sorry. I'm glad you told him what you did, but he won't believe you and because you caved on seeing them this time, he will now be fairly sure you don't mean that ultimatum because you caved this time. So, he guesses, perhaps rightly, you'll cave again that time.

I know you don't want to hear these things, they are meant to be supportive even if you don't feel they are.

The thing is, you comment about your mental health but the sad truth is that by continuing in this scenario and allowing these things to continue without some form of permanent resolution is going to contribute to not allowing your mental health to be as positive as it can be. Your doing the running etc is a positive but in many ways it's a bit of a sticking plaster to heal a broken limb.

The permanent resolution is either:
a) he has nothing do with his mother whatsoever
b) he has contact with his mother but ALWAYS without you and ALWAYS without any form of coercion or guilting you into it
c) the relationship ends

Quite honestly, as I said before, if he truly loved you, he should be doing a). I don't understand how a man can love his mother for treating his wife so appallingly.

I do wish you luck but, more importantly, good health.

So so sorry you are being treated so harshly on this thread, to say you are "getting something" out of this situation is just horrible. You are stuck in a really difficult situation, one i have been in for 20 years plus. It is really complicated and deeply emeshed behaviours by dh.

None of us are perfect and fully confident in our interactions, vodka and her husband arent even thirty! A marriage is a long process of learning and give and take. Vodka will learn her own strategies over time to deal with mil, over time she will learn to understand/compromise her husbands failings, just as we all have failings.

It is not a simple situation it is a total headfuck, mil will switch and manipulate at every opportunity which creates problems for a you g married couple.

Vodka i hope you are ok and bearing up, are they on cruise now? It is not as easy as ltb or go nc, i empathise with you and wish we could meet for coffee! Take care kxxxcx

I have been following since before Christmas and I feel so sorry that you are getting such a hard time on this thread Vodka. It must be just awful to have your mh background, to be living far from your support network as a trailing spouse and feel that your dh does not have your back.

I have been in a similar situation with my own MIL - also living abroad (in MIL's country) where I didn't speak the language. I can tell you that it did not really improve (continued after MIL's death in fact) although DH's reaction did change when the FOG cleared. MIL may never change but your dh needs to decide his priorities,

You appear to have married into a family of carpet sweepers where everyone wants you to forget everything that has happened and sweep it all under the carpet. Unfortunately your dh has proved very weak - he claims that he will make a stand. then backs away when pressured by the parents and then pressures you into accepting what they want. This is a dysfunctional and repeating pattern - it happened at Christmas (did you ever get the apology from MIL that your dh claimed was his line in the sand?) - and it has happened again now - dh promised your would not need to see them and then pressures you to meet them. The question is - can you keep living this way? Could you make a trip home to talk this over with friends and family?

As your dh has promised counselling perhaps you should take him at his word and book a session for his return from the cruise - if he tries to back away then you know that he wants to continue sweeping.

Oh for fucks sake people; have some of you never heard of compassion?

Vodka, listen to those of us speaking sense on this thread.

You need to get through the next wee while whilst he's away with Nasty and Wimp. You're on the home straight now. And I promise you that you will get through it - then you can get back to some form of normal.

But - and it's a big, huge but - you need to come to some decisions about what you're going to do now. He's said that he's on board with the therapist: is this something that you can book before he gets back? Have you thought about what the consequences are going to be if he doesn't follow through with this?

Vodka you know that I'll offer support regardless (my own ILs are horrible, selfish arse holes) but you need to think about whether you're willing to go on like this. Because if you stay together and have dc etc etc, this isn't going to go away. Unless dh really has your back (and I mean really, i.e. He will actually stand up for you with her) you are going to be in for a horrible, horrible time with this woman. What if she lives to 100? That's a fuck long time to put up with this shit for.

I've been quite lucky in a way. I'm 17 years in (I'm 34 now) and dh has finally realised in the last few years what they're like. Esp FIL who was unwell 18 months ago and showed what a true cuntbadger he is. But it was a long and rocky road that now includes 1 DS with another expected in July. Would I do it again? Yes, but only because FIL was ill and we now no longer see him. If FIL hadn't been ill it probably would have turned out quite differently (I had a solicitor lined up, documents gathered and a bag packed for DS and I). It was only by sheer "luck" (hollow laugh) that dh began to see through the charade.

You need to decide what is best for you, and what you're able to tolerate and what you're not. We only get one shot at this life - don't waste it xx

Reading the experiences of other people in Vodka's position, I just cannot comprehend where the nasty posters are coming from. This is not, by any means, an easy position to be in.

ShatnersWig
I think you should wind your neck in and not call time on the OP's relationship just yet. I've been in a situation with my DH in the same room when his mother saw fit to shove me out of the way and he said NOTHING. Two years down the line he is successfully challenging both his parents when they occasionally come to seek him out to hoover him back in. He fucking ROCKS. This took time and patience and me getting upset quite a lot. I have faith that Vodka will be ok, if she's not made to feel like shit by people like you on her journey.

I don't understand how a man can love his mother for treating his wife so appallingly.
He doesn't love the behaviour he loves the person, and until you've been raised by someone who has trained you from birth to negate your own needs and put someone else's first then you should stfu to be honest, because there's clearly a lot you don't understand about this situation, by your own admission. OP's HUSBAND IS SCARED OF HIS MOTHER. HE IS AN ABUSED PERSON. Got that? Leave the thread if you have nothing positive to contribute.

Judee That is your opinion. You are allowed to express it, just as I am allowed to express mine. You have absolutely no idea how similar an experience I have been though. I am not speaking from a position of ignorance and I am not the only person who has said they don't see things changing and I notice you haven't challenged one or two posters who were extremely unpleasant.

You say it took your DH two years to challenge his parents. Vodka has been in this relationship for 10 years and despite problems time and time again, her being reduced to tears time and time again, he has only genuinely had her back on one occasion.

Many people enable a toxic narcissistic parent merely to try and have an easy life without automatically being abused.

I have pointed out that I don't see things changing. Others have said it. I have not criticised Vodka. I have criticised her husband. Vodka is bloody lovely and bloody strong to have coped for so long under quite appalling treatment but she has MH issues and this continued situation is not going to make them better but far worse because of the constant worry or turmoil it causes.

I'm glad you were not around when I was posting about my DH then, because you would have thrown him to the dogs.

So what if she's been 10 years in rather than my 3? I didn't find out about narcissism until in was 41 and that wasn't long ago. Telling the OP her marriage is over when they haven't been to counselling yet and she has only just coming to understand the situation? Wow, seriously that is way overstepping the mark.

Judee Actually, for accuracy and without wishing to derail the thread, I didn't say the marriage was over. I said there were three options, only the third of which was that the relationship ends. There were two other options which did not involve ending the marriage. The second option allowed her DH to continue a relationship with his mother on the understanding that it was kept totally and utterly separate from Vodka.

Vodka your DH has done a spectacular job of beating you into submission. You are obviously incredibly worn down by it.

How did he get to be this skilled at bullying you so very effectively into acting against your own clear wishes? Is this behaviour really limited to the odd parental interaction?

He grew up with an abusive mother. You suffered abuse as a child too. You have been with him since 18. So, I'm wondering if your relationship is actually as good and as normal as you say. It would be miraculous I think given your pasts and the age you got together.

I've never come across this thread before. Having just read it from start to finish, there is a very clear pattern.

Over and over again, OP, you say that you are not having any further contact with her. Your husband cries and tries to persuade you otherwise. You concede slightly but with very tight boundaries. And then push comes to shove and you are inveigled into contact with your MiL. In the process, your boundaries are trampled all over and sometimes you become (understandably) upset - your husband responds by lying that he is prepared to attend therapy/accepts you being no contact with MiL.

I am especially concerned that your MiL's first attack on you was regarding the sexual assault and you now have PTSD as a result of that assault. From what I know of PTSD, being in contact with her could be directly affecting your recovery.

The absolute best self-care you can invest time and money in right now is therapy for yourself.

Vodka, will he want you to see them when they're back from the cruise?

You said, Shatner, "she isn't going to change. But nor is your man"
Well I am glad you are judge jury and executioner on his ability to change, which is far from my experience btw.

Far easier for the OP to listen to you and bin the marriage than go to counselling and try to unpick the reasons why, eh? Ffs

How are you doing Vodka?

Please don't be scared off when you need support the most xx

Here Vodka (or PM if you prefer)

Hello all. I'm still here and still reading. As you can probably imagine, I'm feeling a little bruised! I was afraid to post an update, and got exactly what I thought I would.

But those of you who have been understanding are keeping me going at what feels like a very lonely week.

There will be pressure to see them again before they leave for the UK, of course. That really is a bridge too far for me... But I'm taking each day one day at a time this week, that's all I can do. I'm also thinking very hard about everything (my life, and what I want out of it).

Oh Vodka

Right, come on girly. You can do this. Your bruises are already healing- if they weren't then you wouldn't have posted again.

You're going to stay strong and you're going to do what you need to do - whatever that may be.

Apart from bruised, how are you feeling? Is any part of you relieved yet or are you still in dread mode?

How is the job hunting going, Vodka?

Please don't mind some idiots on the internet, take what is good, of which there is a lot and leave the rest. You are the only one in this situation and you are the only one whose life is affected by your choices. I'm certainly not judging you.

Just saying hi and glad you're back. :)

hi vodka, glad you are still here, hopefully this difficult time will be over soon. you've seen them once that should suffice for them. All you can do is take things a moment at a time and talk to your supports. it does not mean your marriage is doomed just you have a difficult mil. take care and don't listen to the other crap. thinking of you xxxxxx

Glad you're here. hugs

How are you holding up?

How are you doing sweetheart?

I read through your whole thread and felt horrible for this awful situation that you're in. I'm going to throw in my two pennyworth, which could be complete crap or might be helpful. Hopefully the latter.

Someone else pointed out that you're in a bad pattern of trying to set a boundary but then letting your husband - and his family cross that boundary. I think as long as you keep doing that in the same situation is going to play itself out again and again. The thing is, right now, it seems to me that your husband isn't capable of action. His parents clearly are never going to back off, but you will give in. It's not that he doesn't love you or that he doesn't want you to be happy, but it is easier for him to ask you to give way rather than his parents. And that awful and hurtful but it seems to me that is all he is capable of at the moment. I don't think he's choosing you or his parents, I think he is just desperately protecting himself.

I think the inability to act is also what would let you walk out the door, if push came to shove. I think trying to get him to stand up to his parents isn't going to work unless you get some help. I'd be strongly pushing him towards counseling, if you can.

I think for you, now, you need to decide how much more you can put up with. It's there a point that you would leave the marriage? Where is the point? I think you're doing what I have done so many times, which is threaten and threaten, desperately hope the threats will lead to some action, but when they don't, just back down.

I think at the very least, if you can, accept that your husband is going to keep trying to get you to make amends with his parents, but just refuse. Never mind the sadness, the emotional blackmail, comments etc. Just refuse, over and over. It won't help your husband and it still probably won't make him take action, but over time he will see that you're not going to give in, and stop asking you to. Right now it seems like no one is choosing you. You need to choose you.

I'm rambling and this could all be complete rubbish, but it seems like you need to dial down your expectations of him. I just don't think he's capable of taking the action that you need him to take, without a lot of help.

I haven't posted before Vodka but you're some mighty woman. You will survive this visit and you will stay strong because you are strong.