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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

992 replies

pocketsaviour · 06/10/2016 13:13

It's October 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

OP posts:
worthlesspig · 27/10/2016 21:08

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worthlesspig · 27/10/2016 21:14

How did everyone decide to go NC? Did something trigger it or was it just a build up?

Her mum was a narc. Always the victim and now she is too. Everything is always someone else's fault. She did some horrible things in her life but has painted it as she sees fit. She's obviously the victim. I'm her whipping boy. Always doing the running but it always being wrong. Apparently I bully her. All I've done is try and make her happy, walk her line but I always seem to fail. Somehow I always seem to be the runner up even though I'm the one who's always done everything for her. So many months of silent treatment when I do something she doesn't agree with. Stupidly I would spend my days upset by it, wishing I could put it right but I don't care anymore. If I died tomorrow she wouldn't have the first clue what to do with my DC. I just want to walk away. It makes me feel so heavy.

Eightiesmate · 27/10/2016 21:16

I'm dropping in, need somewhere to put this down as it's been an upsetting day. I posted a good while ago about my situation, without drip feeding but trying to keep it short I'm NC with my dad, not entirely of my doing.

My parents were emotionally useless as I was growing up, family life was a mix of emotional abuse, the occasional physical abuse (smacking, threats and generally being handy with their fists) there was money troubles, my mother suffered with anxiety, depression and self medicated with alcohol. My father is a weak man who turned a blind eye to much of my mothers appalling behaviouf towards me and I was expected to keep it quiet from the wider family as my father couldn't bare to 'lose face' in front of people, especially his parents.
I often felt frightened, my feelings were ignored, as I got older my mother scapegoated me badly whilst my brother was the golden boy. I was controlled by my mother, I was never allowed any privacy, she would root through my room, drink my alcohol (I was 17), eat the nice things I would buy with my own meagre pay etc. this culminated in a huge arguement when I was 17 - by now I was driving and earning small money on a YTS Scheme. My mother decided at that point to throw me out, I got home and all my belongings were put in bags and thrown out the front. My lily livered father sat back and did nothing at all as he was too frightened to go against my mother.

That day I lost all respect for him. Over the years though the relationship with my parents improved despite my mothers horrible behaviour at times, especially in drink. Fast forward 25 years and I'm married with two teens, my parents had little to do with my children as my mothers alcoholism just got worse and worse over the years to the point that she was incapable of being with my children after they were about 10 and 8 years of age.

My father I stayed close to - he relied on me for a lot of support and I was the person he turned to for practical and emotional help. I was glad to do it.
Two years ago my mother died from organ failure, my father appeared not to grieve at all, I had very mixed feelings - finally I felt free of the terrible effects of her alcoholism but all the same I had lost my mother and I was going through so many emotions - I rallied around my father, helped with arrangements, funeral etc.

A few weeks after the funeral he let slip he had a 'friend' my brother and I were a little taken aback - it seemed so soon after my mother. We told him we were happy for him but to please respect us and take things slowly. This was the green light for him and her to pretty much spend every day and evening together suddenly she was there all the time. There was no time that we could see my father without her and when my brother and I complained to him about it she kicked off and she broke up with my father. This of course was all my fault - still, much to my fathers relief she took my father back but it appears she put 'ground rules' in place. The rules meant my father reduced all contact with me and my brother as they were now a couple. I contacted my father and it all resulted in an argument where I told him I didn't like her (there were lots of little things we she was doing that made me form that opinion) and the phome call ended with me saying that I didn't want anything to do with her myself - if my father wanted to be with her that was up to him but don't include me. He said in that case I don't want anything to do with you.
And that was that. I phoned him a few months later as I'd not heard from him as he accused me of getting in touch to cause trouble between him and his GF.... I suspect that he's afraid that if he is in touch with me that she will kick off and she'll dump him again.
So, 18 months has gone my with NC from my father - he has moved her in completely and plays happy families with her kids and GC's. He's not seen his only blood GC's for 18 months until today. We had to attend the funeral of someone in my mums family. My father spotted us and completely turned the other way, blanking me and the children completely. I thought I was ok with it all but now I'm so angry. How dare he, he let me down as a child, has made no effort with his own GC's and as soon as my mother was off the scene shacked up with another woman and is playing out the same behaviors as he did with my mother - putting his woman on a pedestal and letting his kids down in the process.
The problem I have is that from the outside I expect I look like the jealous child but it's not the fact he had a GF so quickly it's the knowledge that he's prepared to chuck away his kids and GCs so easily in order to keep her happy.
Today my emotions spilled over into hate for him. Perhaps it did me good to see him turn away. Pathetic man.

ThursFriHappy · 28/10/2016 08:03

lifeof

No, it's not normal for a mother not to care.
Read the website 'daughters of narcissistic mothers', if you haven't already. That gave me some insight. I read about my mother right there.

When you read everybody's post on here, though each post tells a different story, it always boils down to one thing. That narcissistic parents think the world revolves around them.

Normal parents world revolves around their children.

Simply put, I know, but it's true.

ThursFriHappy · 28/10/2016 08:11

Eightiesmste

So sorry that your father treated you that way. Lily livered indeed.
He sounds as narc as your Mum, thinking of himself.

I watched a programme a while ago on TV, one of those true crime ones, where a Mum left her children inside a burning house to go and get her cigarerttes. She'd set the house alight as she was fed up of them begging her not to leave them alone.....

She killed her children because her cigarettes were more important....Angry Sad

ThursFriHappy · 28/10/2016 08:16

Is it normal for a mother to not care? Not support, love you for who you are, make the child do all the running? Generally think that the child is worthless? Comparing siblings in a really horrible way?

That's also my parents. And quite a few others too, I imagine.
Sorry for hijacking thread.

ThursFriHappy · 28/10/2016 08:19

Sorry repeated myself there.

shovetheholly · 28/10/2016 09:20

You're not hijacking thursfri - that's really helpful advice, and a comment I want to second. No, it isn't normal for a relationship to be totally one-sided.

I feel like I'm in a better place today. Just feeling a bit more positive. I had a bit of an insight last night into how I want to take things forward. My counsellor is pushing me a bit to go NC with my family - she keeps asking me what I get out of it, and why I want a relationship. And the very simple answer is that I do love them. I know for a fact they are never going to give me the love, care and recognition I desperately want, so I have to find some way of living without those things or generating them for myself. And I need to be able to forgive them properly for what they have done. I think this isn't going to be an event, but a state that I have to strive for every day. I need to get to a point where I don't react emotionally to the continuing ways that our relationship feels hurtful. I am not sure how to do that, but I suspect it might be about developing a kind of hygiene or discipline about how I think and feel.

worthlesspig · 28/10/2016 09:41

Glad you are on a better place this morning Shove. I'm finding it all a bit big to be honest. I've spent my whole life thinking that there was something wrong with me and if I could just be like/do x,y,z then everything with her would fall into place. I'm realising that it's not me and finding that incredibly hard. I feel a bit sorry for the younger me. That sounds incredibly selfish doesn't it? I'll take a look at the site, thank you.

readitagain · 28/10/2016 09:50

I've just found this thread and am astounded at how many people have been so badly affected by their parents and upbringing. I am also very saddened to realise quite how many.

I'm currently trying to work through how I feel about my own parents. It's only now, after doing some reading, that I have begun to realise just how messed up my childhood was and just how badly I have been affected by it.

I feel so angry. Angry at them and even angrier at myself. I never once stood up for myself, always tried to keep things secret - and I DON'T KNOW WHY! the things that happened, that were said, that were done, were none of them my fault. I feel so confused as to why I felt I was always wrong, why it never occured to me that I could say anything. I am almost 60 years old and I am only now becoming to realise that I may just perhaps be as important as anyone else is. That if someone has a different viewpot to me, and the courage to voice it, doesn't mean I am wrong in how I think or in what I want. I am so used to thinking I don;t count, I have no rights, I have too high an expectation, I am selfish, I am not good enough, everyone else is more important than I am.....sorry that probably makes no sense really but I'm so glad to find somewhere to say this I'm just letting my fingers type what is in my head and not organise it first.

shovetheholly · 28/10/2016 09:57

worthless - NO! It absolutely isn't selfish!

I think the moment when you recognise that the stories you've been told about your worthlessness aren't actually true is HUGE. It's one of those life events that has reverberations. You may feel jangled by them for some time, and have all sorts of emotions - great sadness, anger, denial, to name just a few.

It was nearly 20 years ago for me that I went through that - when I left home and realised that what I had considered normal really, really wasn't! So I've had much, much longer to process it than you have, and I'm still struggling! Smile

I think you should change your username, btw. You're neither worthless nor a pig. You deserve to have something beautiful as your name. Please choose something you love and cherish - maybe your favourite flower or a beautiful animal or something. Flowers

worthlesspig · 28/10/2016 10:40

Read it again your post made me cry. Your final paragraph voiced exactly how I feel and how I have felt my entire life. I have to say that it sucks. Why make a child feel like that? My DC are the most important things in my life. Every opinion of theirs is so important to me, I'm completely open and honest with them (in an age appropriate way) because I believe that brings feelings of security and worth.
Shove, I will try and think of a different name but it's so hard to give yourself a worthwhile name when you don't feel it. I'm so glad I found this thread, strength will come Smile

justawoman · 28/10/2016 10:41

Gosh yes, that moment of realising that I'm not worthless, that all the shame I carry isn't mine, it was projected onto me.... Was very powerful. It happened a couple of months back. I felt my whole body relax, and a chronic back problem that has been bothering me for years, and that the doctor said was 'functional pain', ie, down to tension, went away and hasn't come back.

Shortly afterwards I told my parents I need a three-month break from them.

But.... It has also been hard. I feel swamped by sadness and very tired much of the time. I'm just hoping it gets better.

shovetheholly · 28/10/2016 10:54

I think we need a policy of zero tolerance to self-abasing usernames. Everyone on this thread is a being worthy of care and love and dignity. It's bad enough that we have all been through this shit. We don't need to reinforce the feelings that have been put onto us by calling ourselves bad names. Even if you don't feel like you deserve a pretty, affirmative username, give it to yourself. It really is an important, though tiny, step. The little things really do matter. If every time you look in the mirror, you tell yourself you are hideous, you will start to believe that. This is the same.

iamamazing · 28/10/2016 14:39

Well I was worthlesspig but now I'm not! I'm really not feeling amazing yet, but I know that I will get there!!

whitehandledkitchenknife · 28/10/2016 15:16

shove - you might find "Forgiving and Not Forgiving* by Jeanne Safer a worthwhile read as you navigate through all this. It helped me enormously to get to a place of 'positive disregard'.
iamamazing - yes, you are. and for justwoman too - the moment of realisation that we have as much right to a space, both physical and metaphorical in this world, is a BIG one. Spread yourselves out. Flowers

Eightiesmate · 28/10/2016 17:37

For me I think I am still realising that my upbringing wasn't how every child was treated. It was the 80's and corporal punishment was the done thing It seemed. The problem really was the mental games my mother used to play. She used to threaten to stop me going to something I may have been looking forward to for months and often I'd be in tears right up to the time I was meant to leave then she'd relent and I'd be able to go.
Looking back it was she was like a cat with a mouse, she used to love the power she had over me. i don't forgive her at all for what she did and she's dead now anyway. I just can't believe my father would stand back and say nothing to reign her in just for an easy life.
Is this true narcissism? I read the description and it didn't seem to fit. I wondered if I was the one with the problem, not them. It's made worse by some members of his family not being able to see what the problem is - apparently I should be happy he's found someone and enjoying life.

I am. I'm not against that at all. What ripped open all the buried stuff was when at his GF's bidding he set the rules of our relationship going forward, putting his GF's wants first again just like he did with my mother, at the expense of me.

The feeling I felt inside was exactly how I used to feel as a child - cast aside, unimportant. I wonder if he ever really loved me at all.

ThursFriHappy · 28/10/2016 18:01

eightiesmate

Try reading Susan Forwards "toxic parents". I read that also.
There are more examples of the different faces of narcissism in there.

Mine come under alcoholics. Don't get me started on that.....Angry

Eightiesmate · 28/10/2016 18:11

I did read toxic parents, I guess I couldn't fit them into a category, there was an overlap from a few. I often think back and wonder did I have really that bad? I had a roof over my head, food, clothes, we had nice Christmases (albeit the threat of alcohol and its consequences were always in my mind) we had holidays, life wasn't always terrible.
It was the uncertainty I hated living with. Not knowing if my mother would lose her temper over nothing and lash out, be drunk when I got home from school, whether there would be arguing at home over money etc. life was good (when my mother wasn't in one of her depressive phases) and money was available for drink and fags everyone was happy.
When my mother had one on her, was in drink or had fallen out with my father then I was the target of her hatred. I was always so frightened and fearful of loud noises and shouting. I lived on my nerves all the time.

whitehandledkitchenknife · 28/10/2016 19:20

I often think back and wonder did I have really that bad?

You've answered your question eighties.

It was the uncertainty I hated living with

I wonder how many of us as adults now live with a background level of anxiety (and more) because of that uncertainty?

Eightiesmate · 28/10/2016 19:38

Yes, anxiety for sure. Im a terrible nail biter (since being a child) and a comfort eater. I'm trying to get both under control and I can do well for a few months then the smallest thing will happen and I'll bite all my nails off or raid the fridge. I'm now wondering if I would benefit from counselling. I can't remember lots of specific events though, just the general underlying feeling of fear and nervousness and the need to please my mother at every step.
I'm a massive people pleaser even now. I'll put myself out massively rather than say no to someone.

whitehandledkitchenknife · 28/10/2016 20:05

I'm a massive fan of counselling eighties. It's seen me through some very dark times. You don't need to be able to remember specifics. It will help you with the people pleasing too. Don't feel scared with your people pleasing hat onto make sure that you and the counsellor gel. It's your time and your money.
Good luckFlowers

murmuration · 28/10/2016 21:46

shove - excellent point about the micro-level things. That's why instead of ever really trying to explain things (because it can all just so easily be dismissed if examined as an isolated incident), I tend to just say I had a 'strange' upbringing. I could say my mother was an alcoholic schizophrenic, and that sounds bad, but in fact neither the alcoholism nor the schizphrenia really were among the biggest issues, and it leaves out my father who was the bigger problem. Sometimes I'll say my father isn't the type of person I'd chose to be friends with.

justawoman - you're not inherently bad! That's something that you developed as a child to try to reason about what's going on, "Hmm, parents are right and they hurt me, therefore that must be right and I must be bad." But as an adult you know your parents were wrong, and thus the rest of that chain has nothing to stand on. I'm glad you're working with a counseller to believe in yourself.

sleepy, oh, I understand! It's been a while, but I went through a period of what I can only call mourning for the relationship that doesn't exist with my mother. She never really came through with support, but at least she was on the end of the phone at times, even though she'd never take care of me like I'd desire and usually calling her ended up with me feeling worse instead of better. But now that her MH has deteriorated and I can't even try to reach out, I've had to realise that such a relationship just doesn't exist, and never can with my parents. Every once and while, I'll experience reminders and a sense of grief, but it is diminishing.

thufri, sorry missed your post before. That's just odd and distressing. She really sounds like she's actively trying to make things bad for you, which is a sad sort of hobby if you think about it. They've got so little in their life they have to get their kicks by trying to make someone else unhappy.

huldra, can you just ignore it? She just sounds like a lot of work. Although a reply to a group email "Nothing for me, thanks" could be fine. Civil and bland.

lifeof, no, that's not normal. Normal parents love and cherish their children and would never put one down in favour of another.

eighties, sorry to hear about your Dad. It sounds like he seeks out women who control him and abuse the people around him. He didn't stand up for you when you were a kid, and he's not standing up for you now. He hasn't changed. He took from you when he needed support, but he's not willing to return the favour. I imagine some of your anger is that he's not the person you want him to be - he's protecting himself for an easy life, and not engaging the typical social tit-for-tat we expect of mutual regard and support. It's not your job to fix his issues, and you are justifiably angry with him.

shove - I understand what you're saying about wanting to keep contact. I have made that decision, although perhaps for slightly different reasons. I don't think I love them. Definitely not in the way I love my husband and child, and even very good friends. Maybe my mother a teeny, tiny bit. (And I know saying you don't love your parents is something that makes you seem like a terrible person, but I don't think lying about it to myself would make me a better person! So I have to just accept it). But I know that they love me, to the extent that they can. And I don't see the need to hurt them. I haven't forgiven them, but I'm not really sure what forgiveness means. I don't sit around blaming them for stuff (even though at times I can acknowledge that because of their X, I have this Y) and I just don't expend emotional energy on the past. That's my level of freedom, and it would be more than I want to do to somehow say "it's okay" because it's not okay. I'm not sure I'm making sense here.

But I completely relate to the desire to not react emotionally. I've reached the point where my parents behaviour doesn't make me feel bad and insignificant like it used to, and I don't let their behaviour change anything I do (other than find room for so much stuff!), but I still now feel rage at their continued behaviour which just doesn't change. I'd love to be able to go "Hah, hah, there goes Dad trying to control my life again" and think no more about it. My emotional reaction has not caught up to my practical one.

And sorry, I don't think I can keep up with everything tonight, so I am probably going to end up falling behind at times on this thread, since I think I need another internet-free weekend to be able to manage work next week. But I wanted to end with saying iam that you are amazing! Glad to see your name change. :)

IamalsoSpartacus · 28/10/2016 22:06

Hello StatelyHomes - can I drop back in for some hand holding? I went NC with my dad last year but I find I get very judged for it. People tell me that I only have one father, that I'll regret it when he's gone - I really don't think I will - and now we are coming up to his birthday and Christmas and I wonder if I should bow to convention and send cards. The reasons are sound enough to me but sound pathetically trivial when I state them to other people.

LazyFemme · 29/10/2016 10:52

Hello, I'm tentatively sticking my head in! This will probably be garbled, I don't know how or where to begin. I've had a really difficult year where family is concerned. Everything has just come to a head with my mother and it's like a switch has been flipped. Suddenly I'm no longer willing to gloss over things and ignore everything. I've tried to get through to her to actually sort some stuff out but she can't or won't hear me. Which leaves me facing the uncomfortable decision of going NC or very low contact, or continuing to gloss. I don't think I can gloss anymore! I just physically can't.

I've always known I had an unhappy childhood but I've thought it was mainly my fault for being the way I am and that my mother was basically a good parent. I'm now questioning so many things, even thinking was it abusive? I have the classic "but it wasn't THAT bad" thing, along with my mother telling me I'm cruel to say anything bad about her, so that's a massive question for me. Was it bad? Am I somehow making it up or manipulating the truth to make people feel sorry for me? There are things I know are objectively bad though. I feel so scared to even say things because I can hear my mother's voice lamenting how ungrateful and cruel I am.

I think I'm struggling because she doesn't "fit" anything e.g. narcissism, she's no where near as obviously awful as some people's parents on here. If you met her you'd like her! So what's my problem?

The last contact I had with her was a couple of weeks ago when I asked her to come to therapy with me to help us communicate. I think I genuinely thought she might consider it but her reaction ("I don't need therapy, don't you think you need therapy? ... Well you've had therapy before and it didn't work so what's the point") sort of shocked me and made me go ah right ok, that's not going to happen is it! I feel like I've left the ball in her court now as I told her I'd let her think about it.

This is all just so confusing but I do feel as though a curtain has lifted and I'm starting to see clearly for the first time. I don't have a good grasp on it all yet but so many things are standing out to me that I can't just cover it all up again.

I'm so skint at the moment I have no spare cash for counselling but I'm on a waiting list for Mind charity's free counselling. I'VE also contacted Stand Alone (estrangement charity) about their support groups. I just desperately need some feedback, to be able to say something that happened and have a professional say "no that wasn't ok". I'm not very good at providing my own validation...!

My relationship with the rest of my immediate family (Step dad, half brother and sister, step brother) is distant and in my sisters case really toxic, and it's ll only held together through mother so if I drift from her thall be it for all of them. I feel sad about my brothers but fine. I've always been the black sheep, the difficult one so I know I wouldn't have anyone on my side.

I'm a single mother with a 5yo Dd. I'm so NOT as perfect as I wish I could be but my God I am doing a better job than my mother did. When I look at my daughter I know I've made mistakes but she's a bright and happy little thing and our relationship is so strong and loving. I've never refused her comfort, never shut her out or ridiculed her for her emotions, I help her deal with them. I've never hit her. I've never let anyone treat her badly. My mother always said when I had my own child I'd understand how hard it was for her but actually it just reinforced how incomprehensible some of her actions were. I genuinely can't understand how you could treat a child the way she did