"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's October 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Just wanted to thank the mumsnetters who pointed me in the direction of narcissistic mothers. I feel as though a veil has been lifted. Its not and never has beenmy fault. I just have a nasty mother. I feel i could write a book about her nastiness. People with normal mums look at me and assume im exagerating

The 'dreaded' Christmas dinner with my husband's parents was predictably drama free - very best behaviour they could manage. There was a, clearly planned, attempt to draw us into negative talk about the wider family by asking my professional opinion on something but that was shut down very quickly. Seems like our increasing boundaries over the last couple of years first of all brought out worse, more revealing, behaviour and now they are in full hoovering mode. Lots and lots of compliments and thanks given to us. Felt like being slimed - we know exactly what is fuelling this.

I hope that my husband will see a counsellor in this coming year - but I can't see that happening. I loathe them now for the hurt and damage they have inflicted on him, and our family. My plan going forward is to not bring the subject of them up at all and draw on the experience of my own counselling and the wisdom I have read in this thread to help him when he seeks to talk about it to me. He revealed some more 'interesting' dynamic in his family last night (maternal and paternal) - we can definitely see how it has passed down the generations.

Hoping to gently blow away most of the FOG in 2017 and really start living our lives. Wishing you all a peaceful and happy 2017 .

Phew! Its taken me several days to get through this thread and what an eye opener.Im also incredibly sad and angry that so many of us have been so badly damaged by our childhoods that its affected our adult lives.Iv just recently started my own thread on here(sorry I don't know how to do links)to cut a long story short i have had a huge argument with my parents(mainly df)regarding my db who has always been the golden child no matter what he does wrong and how much trouble he causes they will not have a bad word said about him.I pointed something out to df that i believe to be true about db marrying someone for their money and he flew into a rage and i left in tears,I've heard nothing from them since and im not likely to either they will expect to either carry on as if nothing has happened or i will be expected to apologise and I'm not willing to do this anymore I've had enough.I am worried about the future as i have mh problems(caused by my crap childhood)and if i cut all contact the only family i will have is my dh and ds and that scares me especially the fact that if anything was to happen to dh i will be alone apart from ds.This is what makes me angry non of us asked to be born and I don't think its too much to expect to be loved and feel safe as a child but unfortunately for a lot of us this didn't happen.

Was going to leave this, but decided to deal with it prior to New Year.

Have always had a reasonable relationship with my father, and DD a really good one. It transpired mid-year he was gossiping with my brother and SIL about me and my family. This became apparent after brother threatened me.

Since Christmas father has been very unreasonable, called DD a "fucking bitch, a fucking lazy bitch", and refused to bring DD home to see me and her mum (she was staying a few days as usual) saying if we wanted to see her badly enough I could "get my fucking lazy, fat, arse" out of bed. He knows I'm bedbound, wheelchair using and have also been ill this past week.

We all need to go NC don't we? Sigh, no idea how to accomplish this, it's one thing being low, low, low contact with mother but the fallout from this would be immense. Father and brother NC would lead to my interfering Aunt putting her oar in. DD is pissed off and has taken my father to task this past week.

Happy New Year!

Welcome magicgirl74 x

Serioussteve its intolerable behaviour on his part, which you should not be tolerating, particularly for your DDs sake. He needs to take responsibility and change or forfeit your relationship IMO.

NC sounds like the way to go Steve, l can't see any benefit to you or your dd to continue contact with these unpleasant people on your behalf!

The usual here, l haven't been on for ages sorry, as l really struggle to keep up with the thread and give any valuable input for others.

We had Christmas cards posted to us from my mother, who l have been NC with for four years now. We then had a knock on the door a few days before Christmas (I was getting the bin in so dd16 answered, along with ds7) and it was some one they didn't recognise, who said 'are you ds name?' To ds and when he said yes, handed a bag of presents and said 'these are your presents from your nanny'

I put the presents straight in the garage to deal with after Christmas but l was mad, really mad. How dare she send someone to our house to talk o my children when she knows we want nothing to do with her?

I broke Attilla's golden rule and broke the NC to send her a text telling her that the local charity was grateful for her donations as usual, but that we wanted nothing from her or to do with her, as evidenced by NC for the past 4+ years, and to leave us alone or l would contact the police to inform them of her ongoing harassment of us. And...l actually think it might have got through to her that l mean what l do/say! I got a reply, vaguely threatening but managed to not reply and will not reply either. Hopefully this will be the end of it, or l will contact the police because otherwise l don't think she'll ever stop.

Her reply

Welcome magicgirl74. Yes, it is very sad to realise that so many of us didn't receive the childhood or parents we deserved hopefully it helps to know you are not alone, we get it, this is a very supportive thread, with some really knowledgeable and kind, helpful posters.

I have posted on one of these threads before. Took everyones advice and went no contact with my grandparents and very very low contact with siblings. It has been a year and a half since I took any calls from my grandparents. They were hugely abusive.
So these last 2 months first I got a message from my sister that my grans husband was in hospital. I ignored that while praying for him to die (he sexually abused me, gran beat me for making him cheat on her and called me a slut).
Now on the 24th I got a postcard from my gran asking for contact. Yes I was stupid enough to open it. Last night I got abuse from my youngest brother (alcoholic, steroid user) about not contacting gran. I have blocked him from facebook.
I'm upset so they win. I'm in a bad way mentally at the moment so am looking in to therapy which will help but am just so hurt and crushed at moment. I know they will never let me go. I have even thought about moving but home is the only place I have ever felt safe.
I guess I didn't think they would all be so predictable with the flying monkeys and the hoovering. I have read enough to not respond in any way. It just hurts. I am trying to sort my head out and they keep messing with me. What do they want other than hurting me? What makes people want to hurt others so bad? Why wont they let me get free? When will it finally stop? Surely they must get bored of getting nothing back?

Steve I think you need to get these people out of your life if possible. I can't remember where but I read something recently on childhood abuse causing chronic illness in adulthood. Removing toxic members of your family may even help with your health.
littlemiss I don't think there's any way of knowing why toxic people do what they do. In my experience it goes beyond logic. I think they are just desperate for someone to feel superior to. Don't let them know you're upset and it won't feed their egos.

I've decided that this is the year I need to break free from my past, even if it means going NC with my mother. I had a tough pregnancy with SPD and barely being able to walk towards the end. I'd told her about it when I was about 5 months and said it was possible that I could end up on crutches or in a wheelchair. Didn't hear from her again until after I'd had the baby. Also I had to go back into hospital with my newborn as she was unwell. DH left early look after our other DD and I sat in the hospital feeling more alone than I have ever felt. It occurred to me that people with caring parents would be able to call them in this situation. I couldn't think of anything more stressful. I guess it just made me realise that the times in my life where I've really needed a mother I've coped without. She brings nothing but misery to my life and I get nothing from her or the relationship with her and on an emotional level, never have. It's sad but there's nothing I can do to change it I just need to find a way of being just me without all the baggage of my past. If anyone has managed this any advice would be welcome.

Sleepy

Yes, I've myself done a lot of research into this, it's called S(CUTS) - Severe (Childhood Unpredictable Toxic Stress) and is being linked to all kinds of autoimmune conditions in adulthood. Essentially it releases the hormonal chemicals (Cortisol) that become active during a fight, flight, freeze response. The major different is in S(CUTS) there is some release of Cortisol all the time.

I found Donna Jackson Nakazawa's "Childhood Disrupted" book excellent.

I found reading about this stuff, and PTSD has given me a glimmer of understanding into how, and why, I'm the way I am. Yet to see any improvement in self-esteem and self-worth but hoping counselling and hopefully EMDR will have a profound effect.

I know what I need to do, no idea how to legislate or orchestrate it though.

Thanks for your post

After finding out how I'd been treated in childhood by mother - she has a long history of mental illness - is narcissistic and emotionally abused me throughout childhood, it was suggested I go NC on these very boards.

Whilst I'm not yet fully NC, over time I've managed to cut things down to very, very low contact. This has only been possible by my awesome DW handling all her phone calls proclaiming me to be unavailable/sleeping etc. This has cut my interactions right down, and I avoid seeing her. Without my DW I have no idea how I would have been able to implement anything,

The only downside of being LC rather than NC is when she does manage to speak to me she is most hurtful, her narcissism comes to the surface and a one minute phone call leaves me in tears. She managed to speak to me on my birthday over Christmas and in 60 seconds completely ruined the day.

I think some form of counselling is helpful, and I'm sure you've read "Toxic Parents" and "The Body Never Lies" ?

LittleMiss, a lot of it stems from their own insecurities and lack of control. They need to control something or someone, so they break people down (mainly the scapegoat, but also the GC and other folk) by manipulating them and chipping away at their self esteem. By breaking people's confidence and self esteem, they become easier to control. When the scapegoat, or others, realise what's going on and stand up for themselves (by setting boundaries and exerting your own boundaries), the narc will usually fly into a rage. The main reason is that they're so used to manipulating people into getting what they want. When they aren't getting it from the scapegoat and/or other people, they become enraged that you are seeing through their façade and telling them "No. I won't take any more of your crap"

The narc sees it as important to them, and them only, that you play your role. Any stepping outside that role frightens them, as they may believe you're seeing them for who they really are............an insecure person with major confidence, self esteem issues, a major sense of entitlement and a whole lot more. To have the outside world knowing who they really are is a big NO NO. One of the things they fear the most is exposure. Expose them, and you may well be on the receiving end of their wrath.

They will do what they see fit to make you seem crazy/insane and usually try to blacken your name/damage your reputation etc. All to make them seem like the better person. Anyone who has experience of these people, can usually figure one out by the way they treat others.

An example would be my mum. She thinks she's entitled to treat me like crap because she gave birth to me. She also thinks that I shouldn't have had DC and married because "Who's going to look after me in old age", as she once said to me. When I told her that I became an individual, separated from her when the umbilical cord was cut, she was none too pleased and gave me merry hell over it and told me to just go and do what I bloody well want as I'd do it anyway. It was said in a way that made it out to be a bad thing, yet if my brothers did what they wanted, that was OK with her. It made me feel like she only gave birth to me in order to look after her. There is a huge number of similar incidents like that and others.

Another time I was at her house, she said that she " doesn't phone people", to which I replied "So you think that everyone should make effort to contact you or drop in while you do little to nothing in return effort? From now on, I'll be putting in the same amount of effort to our relationship that you are. That should tell me how much you really care about having one with me".

She went absolutely apeshit accusing me of not caring about her, and all sorts of other crap. I replied that I do care about her, I just don't care a tosh about her behaviour toward me and if she doesn't make the effort to have any kind of decent relationship with me, then I'll move on with my life. She didn't like it one bit as she knew I was seeing through her veil of lies and crap. The only thing I give her credit for is doing a good job on my brothers. That said, my youngest and older brothers are now seeing the crap she is putting me through, and have had their eyes opened. Their loyalty still lies with mum though.

Anyway, I'm off to bed now as I've the usual 4am start for walking and training the dogs.

Take care folks and hopefully you'll all sleep better knowing that it them, not you

littlemiss . What sleepy says. As long as they can't see you hurting they're getting no supply from you and you're winning. Because the thing is, they actually need you - and you most definitely don't need them.

Sleepy your account of your time in hospital just brought straight back to me that feeling of weary loneliness, that constant brittle hurt of this difficult and unpleasant person in the place where there should have been someone who had my back. I hope you get things to a place that you're happy with this year. What I would say, and to Steve too is that when you go from LC to NC (and I know it's not always simple or practical to do, but if it can be done) their response might ramp up from unpleasant to absolutely batshit crazy but you don't have to listen to it. You don't have to be responsible for their feelings in the way you feel you do when you're LC, trying to talk them back off the edge when they're angry, all of that. You might have to take steps to ensure you're safe, to ensure you don't have to feel the effects of their anger - but that's something different. It's looking after yourself for once rather than looking after them. IDK if you can relate to this but I felt at first like I was being lazy in not listening to her and just doing what I wanted. I felt somewhere in my heart that I deserved to have to listen to her anger when I'd made her angry. Realising that her feelings aren't my responsibility was almost as liberating as the actual NC. (The NC is fairly awesome too though. Second Christmas without any guilt or misery, just excellent puddings and the speed building of a variety of Lego princess castles...

Sleepy for you, I had a similar experience last year when my dc was born it's the loneliest I think Ive ever felt sat in that hospital alone with everyone else's family visiting.

I've been seeing a therapist initially for cbt but I think we're off that now as my problems are far more deep routed she recommended 2 books
"Will I ever be good enough" and the daughters of narcissistic mothers book, after reading the first I feel 100% better already. I can see the root of a lot of my undesirable behaviours.

I'm undecided about the 2nd; the website is a bit scary and there are some weird reviews online can anyone confirm if it's worth reading? She seems very angry I'm not sure it'd be good for me?

Today I deleted and blocked all close family on Facebook so they can't see anything that's happening and I'm going LC with my aunt who has become a flying monkey for them. It's taken 3 years to do this.
I'm sad but I also feel empowered, as much hurt that having the baby has brought up I also feel it's healing me because I don't want my family for them, I don't want them to feel that terrible terrible loneliness. The emptiness and silence that is the loudest thing in the room.

for steve and everyone else who has had a crappy time the last week.

Glittery is the second book that "You're not crazy - it's your mother" one? I've read the bad reviews for that as well and didn't know what to make of it so I bought the book anyway. You can tell from the way it's written she's not a mental health professional - it's a really informal style, she sounds very certain about everything. Her portrait of a narcissistic mother was eerily similar to mine so that was useful to me - she has a lot of big lists of characteristics and habits and I found that really helpful for validation that my mother is actually a narcissist. The "how to heal" section I found less useful as she pushes this EFT technique - I didn't look into it much but it's some sort of acupressure thing. Wikipedia says it's been found not to be effective in trials. (Not to be confused with EMDR which is apparently about as effective as CBT).

Good morning everyone. How are you all today? Just had breakfast, so am sticking kettle on for a if anyone wants one.

Glittery, I made a vow and New Years Resolution to do my utmost to stop my mum from having too much of an effect on my DC. I've told my DC that they should treat others as the others treat them, and that they should only go round there if THEY want to. We did encourage them to go round to see mum before Xmas, but after mum sent 7-8yo clothes for a lad of almost 12yo (DS), and 8yo clothes for DD who is nearly 11yo, I told the DC that they didn't have to go round.

I did ask DS and DD what they thought of their new clothes, but they said that their nana has just made them feel like they aren't even worth making an effort for. TBH, I thought that mum could have asked DS and DD their ages as a guideline, or even asked my BIL, who she went shopping with and knows the DC's ages. The clothes she sent prove that she CBA to make an effort. And as for my younger brother (Br2), he couldn't even get a token gift for our DC, although I got his DC a few things as it's not their fault their dad is a complete arsehole. By not getting anything for our DC, I see it as him taking his issues with me, out on DS and DD.

He thinks it hurts, but I've become mentally and emotionally detached from the family as a whole. Br2 had said that I wouldn't get any inheritance and that I wouldn't be welcome at mum's funeral. I told him simply that I wasn't expecting any inheritance and that I would respect mum's decision to not have me there. There was no emotion in my voice, and I was incredibly calm about it, which annoyed the f* out of him as he realised quickly that it didn't bother me at all. Needless to say, his little plan backfired

I suppose when we look back at our childhoods and how we were treated then, and now, we really start to hurt bad at the realisation that we will never get the parents we needed and deserved. Sometimes we wonder how anyone could make a child feel like crap, then wonder why that child may have mental health problems as an adult. The narc doesn't, or won't acknowledge that they are partly to blame for those MH problems, due to the way they treated the child. They won't take the blame for any of their disgusting behaviour because they know it'll make them look bad, so they try and twist it round to make someone else to blame.

I used to think I was the narc, but then I realised that I can and will easily acknowledge when I'm wrong and apologise for any hurt caused. Narcs either blame someone/something else or try and justify their behaviour. They use excuses like "You drove me to it" or "If you didn't do that, I wouldn't have done this to you". It hurts big time, when we realise that we will never really get a heartfelt apology for the damage the narc has caused to our emotional and mental health.

I have figured that there is a difference between a reason for someone's actions and an excuse. A reason is something you talk about in order to get someone to understand the driving force behind a person's hurtful actions, but the person will accept responsibility for them easily. An excuse is something a person will use to blame someone/something else in order to avoid accepting responsibility for their hurtful actions.

More often than not, a narc will use excuses blame someone else for their actions. Narcs mainly fear exposure and looking unpalatable to the outside world. This is mainly because they always need someone as their supply. If the outside world saw them for who they really were, they'd be lonely, bitter people with no-one to dump their shit onto in order to make them feel better about themselves. They are the epitome of what a bully really is. I won't say that all bullies are narcs as there are a lot of bullies that are willing and able to apologise meaningfully to their victims, but most, if not all, narcs are manipulative bullies, whether they are cover or overt.

We have decided to move back to the town DH and I were living in before we moved to our current country. Mum knows we are moving, but doesn't know where or when. DH's old boss has offered me DH's old job when we arrive, as well as helping us with moving (his boss will pull out all the stops to have us back there, as DH and I made such a profound effect on the regulars). We aren't going to tell anyone about our move until we have actually moved and settled a bit. Needless to say, Br2 will be bleating on about how we're abandoning mum and all that. My stock response will be "Well I have a family to provide for, so I need to go where the work is...........like most sensible people will do".

BTW, may of you will probably remember me as Chiggers or UpsidedownDog

Chiggers! If you hadn't told us I'd have worked it out eventually from the

Congratulations on the move and the job, that sounds awesome. Can I ask, did you pass your driving test yet?
Your kids are awesome. I think you're handling contact between them and your mother really well. I think by discussing it with them... they don't sound hurt by it, they sound as if they know what to expect.

I think you're right about narcs that they won't ever meaningfully apologise (I mean outside of those "I'm sorry if I've ever failed to live up to your unreasonable expectations of me as a parent" type non-apologies) because they can't admit to themselves that they're wrong. They can't be wrong about anything. I used to watch my mum and dad fuck up the Sunday crossword together when I was a kid - if they had different answers for any of the clues, my mum's answer prevailed, even if it didn't fit with the other answers. She just couldn't turn round and say "oh you're right, I got that one wrong."

I had that as a flea when I was younger - not that I'd always claim to be right but when I was wrong about something I suffered greatly, I felt like the most awful person going when I made even a minor mistake. I always imagine that that sort of collapse of ego is what narcs are constantly running to stay one step ahead of. For me time and life made me more comfortable with making mistakes, but for them there seems to be no way out of the prison of perfection they've built for themselves. Christ, I almost sound sympathetic there. What the hell's wrong with me I must be mellowing in my old age.

TooOld, I can't get away with anything with you , and I haven't passed my driving test, but I've just started Muay Thai in October (new year's resolution started early), so money is a bit tight at the moment (our benefits are changing due to DH having arthritis and being unable to do many types of work). We are very close to bus routes, so public transport is not a problem. I can walk into town centre within about 30mins at wandering pace, so only use buses if I have a heavy load to cart home.

The reason we've been on benefits for so long is because I stupidly believed Br2's crap about the work prospects being better where we are currently. Put it this way, I've applied for way over 1200 jobs and had only 3 replies back stating that I hadn't got to the next stage. I speak to DH's old boss and they are happy for me to take over with DH being there to show me the ropes.

Like I said before, I have a family to support, so I need to go where the work is, and that is back where I belong with DH's 'family' (his biker mates who are a wonderful bunch of people). DH has no immediate family here except the DC and myself, as his parents are both dead, so his wee chums are the only extended family he really has IYSWIM. I class his biker mates as family as they have acted more like family than mine have (we're currently in my home town), with the exception of my older brother.

I'm sure you can tell I'm fed up with living near my family .

BTW, it nice to see you back on here again SeriousSteve , so glad you're still with us and posting. I hope you are all keeping you chins up and biding your time before going LC or NC with your narc/toxic relatives.

Must get to bed now, as I need my sleep and no doubt my silly staffies will whine for me to get up and take them out for their 4.30am walk/exercise/training. Not only that, but it's flippin' Baltic here .

Night all and take care of yourselves . See you in the morning.

Your DHs biker family sound bloody fantastic. Often the best family is the one you make yourself, really.
Muay Thai? Kick boxing? Bloody hell, that's cool.
The move sounds like a no brainier. I remember you talking about the shitty job situation before and that's brilliant news that you can take over DHs old job when you move.

4am for the dogs, dear god. Have a good sleep!

Thanks to this thread I've been able to remain firm. After walking out during a visit to my Mum I eventually wrote her an email saying why, I felt like I had to give her the chance of an explanation and put an end to her innocent hope everyone is well attempts. For weeks and weeks I have had no reply at all, then out of the blue a Happy Christmas then a Happy New Year email. No apology, ot angry disagreement, nothing at all about my email, just an innocent Happy Christmas. If I hadn't been reading this thread and read a book I would have thought I was over reacting, too sensitive or going crazy.

TooMuch, I'm well used to the early starts. The good thing about it being cold is that it wakes me up (no other choice really). It really would freeze the balls off a brass monkey. Hmmm, I was wondering why there were 2 at my door looking for a welder .

Huldra, it good you've stayed strong enough to do what you've done. Sometimes we have to decide whether or not it's worth replying. By that I mean would you get the answers you need, rather than want, or would it be best for you and your family to maintain radio silence after explaining yourself.

As we understand the situation you're in, it probably be best for you to keep silent and not reply. I say this because I see what you've written and believe your mum wants to hoover you up to get back into your role as scapegoat. This is usually because she can't/won't deal with her own failures, insecurities and other problems. Like a pp said, the scapegoats are the narc's colostomy bags. They're there to take the crap that the narc can't or won't deal with.

Hi Chiggers! That's very kind. Keeping our heads above water and taking things day by day. Counselling proper kicks in this week so hoping for some resolutions and an improved mindset this year. Hoping to do an OU degree but likely to defer to Sept as DW has two or three operations coming up.

It's great news about your getting a job, and the distance that moving will give you. Great to see you posting again :)