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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Why is being pushed/shoved always meant to be such a red flag event?

139 replies

TemporarilyLost · 03/10/2016 09:50

If it's only happened once in 15 years. Much worse happens to women on a daily basis. Worse in terms of name calling, shouting and other stuff has happened to me even.
I did slightly provoke him as well because i could see his anger was at boiling point but I didn't back down in my argument and get out of the room as he told me too.
Nothing has escalated since it happened and because it was so blatant I even brought it up (which I struggle to do with other stuff as he has a way of making it seem I'm the one in the wrong and overreacting) telling him it could never happen again. He even grudgingly apologised (which is massive as he is never sorry for anything) after I told him I wouldn't tolerate it.
Could it potentially be seen as a positive tipping point to promote positive behaviour changes?

OP posts:
SarcasmMode · 03/10/2016 19:37

Also depending where you live / your parents live you could join some groups with DD to make some friends.
Also MN have regional meet ups you could attend?
If you're anywhere near the SW is gladly meet up with you and DD if you could handle my bossy 3yo and chatty 8 month old.

PoldarksBreeches · 03/10/2016 19:39

You had a thread in this name about his sexual abuse of you didn't you?
He's sexually abusive
Emotionally abusive
A bully
physically abusive
Nothing about this relationship is ok. The shoving is a red flag because it's part of a huge picture of domestic abuse.

Gymnopedies · 03/10/2016 19:53

To answer the original question I think being pushed is a red flag because you could fall off and hurt yourself, particularly bump your head against a heavy object/the ground.
Your DD needs her mum, protect yourself.

Gymnopedies · 03/10/2016 19:54
Flowers
Original poster
TemporarilyLost · 03/10/2016 20:58

I'm not sadly but I'd love to do a mn meet up. Any time your in the capital....

No under all the nice normal stuff nothing is ok but to really admit that to myself would be crushing. It would be admitting my whole adult experience isn't ok and that's a big ask. You have to see the good in your life and in him even, otherwise its all too bleak to contemplate.

OP posts:
SarcasmMode · 03/10/2016 21:12

I understand. But I'm not saying it's all a lie/ bad but where it really matters it's bad I.e self esteem, pressure, emotional abuse. If he smoked and you hated it, or he was not a good communicator etc it would be bad but something you could work with IYSWIM? But as his bass are something deep rooted in him then it's not as simple.

Your love for him is not a lie. Your daughter is an amazing thing to come out of your adult life. I am sure he cares about you but not in the right way and not enough to treat you as an equal.

Because that's what it is - not seeing you as an equal. He treats you how he treats DD (minus the sex stuff of course). Making you feel naughty, grateful when given a little etc.

Did you read my post on the other thread re: he needs to be able to be away from the relationship too to have a chance of changing his behaviour. Whilst your still together he doesn't have that chance but if he sought help professionally when single he could potentially make improvements but only if he wanted to.

Does that make any sense?

Btw there's an annual London MN meet up I believe? Other posters might be able to point to more details.

SuperFlyHigh · 03/10/2016 21:17

I personally think any relationship where you push or shove the other person (I've done it to a boyfriend - he didn't touch me but emotionally abused me) is bad news...

I've got a friend who's had a very on and off relationship with a commitment phobe, she told me she'd hit him (slapped) and I said "why are you with him?!" But she ended it very soon afterwards.

I think a push and shove is definite point where things can or will escalate in the relationship.

robindeer · 03/10/2016 23:55

Admitting your whole adult experience isn't okay is certainly a big ask but the only thing here which is truly too bleak to contemplate is allowing this to be the rest of your life.

I promise you, wholeheartedly, this is not what life is. You and your daughter could be living a life of freedom, safe from all of this.

Please try to see that when he cheerfully waved you out of the door last Saturday it was something he was banking. He will mention it as evidence of his 'strengths'. It is leverage for him because he knows that you are waking up. He sees his reign is coming to an end.

We're all still here for you, still rooting for you. Strength, as ever, lovely OP Flowers

Atenco · 04/10/2016 02:36

t would be admitting my whole adult experience isn't ok and that's a big ask. You have to see the good in your life and in him even, otherwise its all too bleak to contemplate

But the past is the past and we all make mistakes, but we don't have to continue in them. I am over 60 and still feel good for another thirty years, do you want to spend another 50 odd years with friends, walking on eggshells, etc?

Your problem, OP, is that your he has isolated you, very deliberately. My answer to your thread title, is that knowing that he shoved you, it was pretty apparent that there is already a lot of emotional abuse gone under the bridge.

Atenco · 04/10/2016 05:03

Sorry "do you want to spend another 50 odd years WITHOUT ANY friends"

Original poster
TemporarilyLost · 04/10/2016 07:04

I didn't want to admit to the isolation side till resently. I feel so jealous seeing what my friends have been doing on Fb posts. Traveling the world and meeting up for reunions. They gave up asking me over a decade ago as I'd either have to make my excuses or he'd turn up too.

I can see how he's banked that. I know if I ask to go out again any time soon he won't be so understanding. I wouldn't even contemplate it.

No he's not treating me as an equal all the time and I do feel greatful for things like him not being a dick about me going out.

OP posts:
iknowimcoming · 04/10/2016 09:31

That's just it tho Hun, you shouldn't feel grateful for him allowing you to go out! I'm going out tonight with some friends, I didn't ask my dh I told him and said so you can take Ds to his activity tonight ok? Ok he said. I will get ready and go out he'll say have a good time (and he'll mean it) I will come home and he will ask if I had fun and what the food was like, I'll tell him, that's it. No phone calls or texts whilst I'm out, no who did you talk to, how much did you spend, no snarky comments for a few days after. No sulking or moods, or me having to make it up to him for being so disloyal.

It makes me feel so sad that you feel you have to wait for him to either be unfaithful or beat the living daylights out of you before you will feel you have a valid reason to leave this twat. Can you imagine giving that advice to your daughter in 20 years time if she was living with an abuser?

iknowimcoming · 04/10/2016 09:32

That's just it tho Hun, you shouldn't feel grateful for him allowing you to go out! I'm going out tonight with some friends, I didn't ask my dh I told him and said so you can take Ds to his activity tonight ok? Ok he said. I will get ready and go out he'll say have a good time (and he'll mean it) I will come home and he will ask if I had fun and what the food was like, I'll tell him, that's it. No phone calls or texts whilst I'm out, no who did you talk to, how much did you spend, no snarky comments for a few days after. No sulking or moods, or me having to make it up to him for being so disloyal.

It makes me feel so sad that you feel you have to wait for him to either be unfaithful or beat the living daylights out of you before you will feel you have a valid reason to leave this twat. Can you imagine giving that advice to your daughter in 20 years time if she was living with an abuser?

Original poster
TemporarilyLost · 04/10/2016 13:23

Sorry I only just saw your post.

I know logically that I shouldn't feel guilty but it's hard wired into me. Before dd he might make me feel bad for going out too much or drinking too much but it was mostly like water off a ducks back and I'd just let him strop about it without taking it too much to heart and only modifying my behaviour slightly. Parenthood has changed our relationship and he'll be moody and try to stop me going out, even if it's just a weekend away at my mums let alone a night out with a friend and I'll find I'll either genuinely agree with his point of view or just do as he says to avoid him being horrible.

It's ridiculous that I'm hanging around waiting for the worst but I can't find myself able to take the next step when it's all seemed normal for so long.

I would hate dd to be in my situation but I'll teach her as she grows up that she doesn't have to be in a relationship that makes her unhappy.

OP posts:
Myownperson · 04/10/2016 13:26

but I'll teach her as she grows up that she doesn't have to be in a relationship that makes her unhappy

You know the best way you can teach her that? Smile

Losingtheplod · 04/10/2016 13:28

The only way you can teach your DD not to be in a similar relationship when she grows up, is to get out of it now. You can tell her until you are blue in the face, but what she will learn, is what she sees at home every day, as normal. You have said, you as an adult are hard wired to feel a certain way because of how you have got used to being treated. Now magnify that by 1000, in your DD's developing brain. You need to be strong for her. I really hope you can be.

Buttonmoonb4tea · 04/10/2016 13:52

OP I remember your previous post. You seemed to understand that the essential elements of your relationship weren't normal. I understand it can take a long time to build up the courage to walk away, I speak from experience.

At least you understand now that you are in an abusive relationship. No one should have to ask their partner if they can go out. No one should be pushed or shoved by their partner. Nobody should have to make their body permanently available for their partners sexual gratification. You're in an abusive relationship OP, and you don't have to put up with it.

It makes me really sad that you feel you have to wait for things to get worse before you leave. You don't, please try and remember that.

Your posts have really struck a cord with me.

I hope you get the courage you need soon to walk away Flowers

SarcasmMode · 04/10/2016 13:56

But by teaching her she doesn't have to then allowing yourself to be in the situation you won't be teaching her that at all.

You've just taught her to talk about leaving but not doing it.

The chances are she will attract similar men to her as her father and by seeing your relationship she will allow him to treat her that way as it was OK for Mum, otherwise she would've left.

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 04/10/2016 14:16

I would hate dd to be in my situation but I'll teach her as she grows up that she doesn't have to be in a relationship that makes her unhappy

Actually my friend days this about her dd and Dh and its bullshit.

Your actually showing her that this way of life is acceptable. Your showing her there can be good times and very dark times and it's acceptable. It's ironic you both think that you can't practice what you preach.

Let's just hope both your kids don't end up with a bloke that knocks their teeth out - but can be nice sometimes ..

AttilaTheMeerkat · 04/10/2016 14:20

You're teaching your DD that currently at least, his abusive treatment of you is acceptable to you on some level. It is not a good lesson for her to learn, she could well end up repeating what you have done in your own relationship. Its no legacy to leave her, it really is not.

Original poster
TemporarilyLost · 04/10/2016 14:25

I know that to lead by example would be best. I'm hoping that because she is still so tiny I can buy some time before she starts absorbing negative relationship messages. I hate it when he kicks off at me in front of her (when he pushed me off the bed she was between us) but she won't remember it. There's still time to make it right and show her what a strong, self respecting woman is.

OP posts:
Ninasimoneinthemorning · 04/10/2016 14:38

Oh wake up temp

How can you show her that when your not even doing it yourself? She might not remember the act but she will feel and remember the emotion surrounding the event or person.

Is he that amazing you can't live with out him?

Myownperson · 04/10/2016 14:39

I hate it when he kicks off at me in front of her (when he pushed me off the bed she was between us) but she won't remember it.

Come on OP, you know how awful that is. I have a 2 year old. That is not a happy experience for them.

Look I'm not judging. Id be a massive hypocrite if I did. And I understand holding that information back. So really I'm not judging. But it's got to be your eye opener moment surely?

Give yourself a shake OP. Flowers

SarcasmMode · 04/10/2016 14:43

My DD is 3 and knows all too well about bad atmospheres, who controls what in the house etc.

She's already getting those messages I'm afraid to say .

Tomorrow is always another day but it will never be the day unless it's today.

dowhatnow · 04/10/2016 14:47

Sending you courage.