Turning Tavern - does it still exist?

[WhyASpoon]

Following a search I discovered a set of zombie threads about the Turning Tavern - I think it may be my Mumsnet home. Is there a current one?!

Why - a funny thing is that I really wish I'd known I was probably bisexual when I was in my 20s (I keep saying 'probably' as to date I've still not had any non-heterosexual experience, ever!). Then, I was footloose and fancy free (well, for a bit of my 20s, anyway).

What fun I could've had! (sigh)

Your WIQ sounds lovely. At least you've got a good friendship there, as good friendships are worth their weight in gold, too!

A hug, unmumsnetty or not, would be great thank you.

Some pretty awful things happened to me as a child and I've had some disastrous relationships including a long marriage to a man who betrayed me terribly. It wasn't till I stopped self medicating with alcohol a couple of years ago that things began to dawn on me, and then my world began to get very confusing indeed.

I don't believe I am heterosexual. That's all I can say. If I was heterosexual I wouldn't spend so much time thinking about women, looking at women I find attractive out of the corner of my eye so they don't see me looking, remembering the few rumblings I've had many years ago and the encounter I had a couple of years ago when a very attractive woman beckoned me onto the dance floor and slow danced me through three songs - I didn't give it a second thought when she asked me to dance, I just went to her. i've never seen her again.

And then I might see a man I find attractive and I'm back into a state of confusing feelings. But I have no desire to have a man in my life.

And yes, yes, I've done the online 'am I a lesbian/bisexual/asexual' etc ad infinitum.

Hugs from me too duff

When you say about self medicating with alcohol. I used to be a bit of a party animal and drank far too much as a way of coping with depression and anxiety, burying my feelings. It was only when I stopped doing that those parts of me I hadn't been able to face came to the surface and amongst a lot of other stuff, I slowly came to the realisation of my true sexuality. I'm so glad someone else has done all those daft quizzes

Thanks for sharing Blue. I wish your girlfriend all the best and hope when she does make that decision it goes well for her. I know I was quite pleasantly surprised at how it went down for myself, most people barely blinked at it. I know it's not as easy for some however.

Cookie and Why, I do believe in the possibilty of multiverses. Somewhere out there you are both settled down with your women, living the gay dream

Seriously though, being so close to someone and so yet far is bloody hard and painful at times

Duff....that was quite moving to read. Sorry to hear you've experienced some difficult things. And the slow dance with the mystery woman...that's like something out of a film!

Psyhke - glad to hear you came out of your depression. (You made me laugh out loud at the 'living the gay dream!' )

I actually haven't done one of those quizzes. I am so off to do one now.

(Will report back with result.)

Very powerful post there Duff - I'm also so sorry you've had such a tough time. And I second the intriguing slow dance experience! How mysterious!

Online quizzes? I'll join you doing one of those Cookie.... not trying to put off housework honest

I don't believe I am heterosexual I love that. Exactly how I feel. Can't (yet?) or won't put a label on what I am but this exactly describes it. Thank you.

Just reread your post again Duff I will also second looking at women I find attractive out of the corner of my eye - oh my goodness, that is SO me. Especially on trains and in restaurants it seems

Of course this is what I used to tell boyfriends off for doing. It's quite cringey and funny in equal measure that this is now also me!

Why I was told by one quiz I was a 'sequential bisexual', as opposed to a 'concurrent bisexual'.

This is according to the 'multidimensional scale of sexuality quiz' available here if anyone's curious (no pun intended ) [ sid.southampton.gov.uk/kb5/southampton/directory/advice.page?id=qiCaw50TvYA&familychannel=10-4 ]

I just did that one, Cookie - apparently I'm past heterosexual but currently homosexual. With aspects of heterosexuality and sequential bisexual.

Goodness.

You are very kind Cookie and Why and Psyhke.

In some ways the alcohol made life more simple - I'd get pissed, sometimes be a bit of a tit, have a hangover and the corresponding terrors and then it would all start over. Now I don't have and don't want that kind of prop.

She was my 'type', the dancing woman. I was on a OLD with another time waster who just wanted to get into my pants. So I was a bit cheeky I guess and also a bit pissed

Anyway I just did that quiz and it comes up that I'm heterosexual with homosexual tendencies. But there were so many questions about erotic and pornographic literature and fantasies that i just couldn't answer, I've been celibate for 4 years too, still working through a lot of the childhood and marriage stuff in therapy. So maybe my journey is only at it's beginning. At the moment all I could imagine would be being held by and maybe kissing a woman.

It's so comforting to hear others connect to my experience too though, somehow it feels more validating that my experience is shared and it's not just that I'm finding connections with what others have already been through or are currently going through IYSWIM.

When I was younger I used to buy and wear quite masculine/androgynous clothes and shoes, I didn't wear a bra for many years and now I wear a tank instead because bras don't feel 'right' on me. I'm slowly going back to how i used to feel more comfortable, but it feels risky. I keep thinking someone's going to ask me if I'm a lesbian and I don't know the answer.

I used to think that sexual identity couldn't really be a difficult thing to navigate, I didn't get how some people could get in such a muddle about it - oh how wrong was I

Agreed duff, I think the confusing part is sexuality changing and evolving to something else on the scale? For some people it's cut and dried, they are what they are from a teenager and stay that way. I think dressing more practical and comfortable for yourself comes with age.

Sequential here too, currently homosexual. What a surprise True, I do tend to have periods where I'm interesed in women more, then flips to men then back again. I don't do the both at the same time thing. I do have a date with a man set up. He asked, I didn't really twig it was a date thing until he texted a few days later, yep I'm a bit silly that way He seems really nice , usually my 'type' but I'm just not feeling it at all. I want a woman date dammit.

It kind of saddens me that there's a distinct possibility I'll end up settling for a relationship with a man simply because they are easier to meet. I have no problem being alone and single, spent enough years doing it but I am getting to stage I would like to meet someone to share things with.

I never told a boyfriend off for doing that Cookie, I used to comment if she was attractive or not too Seriously and it's taken me to my 30s to realise I wasn't quite straight

Hi! I don't even know where to begin but your stories totally resonate with me.

I'm currently having an affair with my female friend and in the process of separating from my husband. Before the affair started I'd never had sex or a relationship with a woman but I am pretty sure l've always been bisexual (plenty of female crushes and thinking about it I've probably snogged most of my female friends whilst drunk)

I can't tell my husband as my GF is also married and not separating at present. Our husbands are mutual friends so it would be too greater risk to her marriage. I am blindsided by the intensity of feeling I have for her. She however despite claiming she is totally in love with me is also having an (online only due to distance) intense friendship with a lesbian.

I'm so sure whatever happens that my marriage is over but have no idea what the future may hold either with my GF or without.

duff and psykhe totally! I never had a the slightest idea that sexuality could change. I knew I had attractions towards women but nothing more than that (although in hindsight, with the exception of one past man, there has been something missing slightly from my relationships - nothing serious and nothing I could put my finger on. But maybe..!) But now, exactly as you say, I want a woman date! Most definitely not a man. Might be not at the moment, might be not ever again. I don't know! The idea of settling for a man because I don't know how to go about dating a woman does worry me actually - which perhaps is partly why I started this thread. (I've also emailed the LGBT society at university... Dipping my toe?!)

Sweet that sounds an impossibly hard situation for you. I think I'd feel really frustrated and trapped by circumstances - so I also send you unmumsnetty hugs and hope the whole divorce process is painless and quick. And that she comes to her senses and decides what she wants before you get too hurt.

Whoop, well done for emailing why. Did you do that deep breath, push the send button quick before I change my mind thing I do?

What an extremely difficult situation Sweet. Is it a case of she's not ready to make a decision just yet or will not be making that decision at all? I hope your separation goes as well as it can

My ex is going to be there on Friday, eep. Will be the first time I've seen her since we did the handing the stuff back coffee. So many conflicting emotions; nervous about seeing her, looking forward to talking to her, worried in case I start crying, it's awkward or I get jealous. I may have to rethink having a drink too as I wouldn't put it past me to proposition her when under the influence and being 'brave' Don't think I could handle either the rejection more than likely or the resulting mess.

Psykhe I absolutely did - and had the fleeting panic once it had gone! Haven't heard anything yet. I'll probably join if I can do it discreetly - until I sort my own head out I'm certianly not shouting about anything. Although I did chat about it to a good friend today and it was such a relief to verbalise something!

And good luck on Friday. Within the limitations of anonymity I'll be thinking of you and willing you on with strength and calmness.

Why and Psykhe thank you. It helps so much to be able to talk about this. I just don't know the answers. Not sure she will ever be ready, but the current situation is totally fucking will my head, I feel really jealous.

Why I totally get what you mean after this I can't imagine feeling the same way about a man again. Feeling the need to branch out into the LBGT world no matter what happens, but how do you do that easily on the quiet? So not ready to divulge all to everyone. You've been seriously brave re the email (at least your toe is out of the closet!)

Psykhe soberness is the sensible thing to do under the circumstances but given the shitheap of emotions you must be feeling, I'd certainly find it hard not to have a few gins before hand. You're totally right to consider where any of the pissed possibilities will leave you emotionally though, and protect yourself as much as you can.

How to do it easily on the quiet? Fuck knows. Especially if I actually want to meet someone. I guess you sort of have to put yourself out there a bit...not easy to do on the down-low!

Not going to lie, I'm struggling a bit this month evening. I'm lonely, frustrated and confused as hell but also not confused because I actually do know what I want. I also don't do well with crushes - I hate them if there's no chance of them going anyway! So I have felt a bit agitated and anxious for a while. (Probably starting uni in a few days doesn't help either!).

Yes, the oh god I've done it now immediately after . I hope they don't take too long getting back to you Why. How did your friend react to it, sounds like they were supportive?

I can't imagine what you're going through Sweet. I would feel jealous too and you're no doubt going through a ton of emotional stuff with your divorce as it is. No matter how amicable they are, it's still a very sad time. Why is it same sex relationships feel so intense, it's wonderful and awful depending on how the relationship is panning out.

It made me smile you saying you'd snogged most of your female friends. I remember back when I was about 20 doing a night class. It was small class but one time working out I'd snogged half of them on nights out as three women were included in the count bit of a tart back then

Thanks both, it will probably be fine. At the moment I'm distracting myself with considering what to wear. I had planned on something until I realised she was going. It's what I wore on our first date so I feel like I can't wear that or anything else in my wardrobe that would be suitable. Memories you know? Can't get out shopping between work and the kids either. I know it's such an inconsequential thing but it's helping me avoid the butterflies in my stomach.

It really would be to protect both of us. She's had it tough too and it would be selfish of me to try anything and make it a headfuck for her. I would regret it either way so better to just suck up how I know I'm going to feel walking away that night. I'm somehow hoping I will see her and feel nothing more than friends but not sure enough time has passed for that one yet.

Sorry for babbling.

Babble away, if it helps. I hope it's an easier meeting than you are expecting. And thank you - she was really supportive, and even admitted she had gone through curious phases herself (now married) and was totally cool. I knew she would be and I was safe telling her.

Sorry you're feeling so alone. I understand, it's all really scary. The problem as you say is that there isn't a shortcut. It all involves risk and making yourself vulnerable.

The risks seem so much more than pursuing a straight relationship. There is the risk of rejection AND the risk of other people finding out/having to cope with the consequences of that.

I feel like there isn't a half way at the moment. Like I either have to jump off the fucking cliff or not😧 This is true both with my GF and my life. Do I give her an ultimatum? Along the lines of I can't carry on with this if you are continuing to pursue your online thing. Do I start trying to develop friendships in the lesbian/bisexual world if that is likely to be what my future holds?

Maybe Uni will be a really good opportunity to meet people and an amazing group of sexually fluid women It's a new start though so it is natural to feel unsettled about it all.

Thank you Sweet - you speak wisdom!

In view of your situation, I can't help feeling that everyone deserves to be with someone who chooses them alone, if that's what they want (poly folk aside). Her being married is clearly a very tricky situation, but is separate from her also looking online. If she truly loves you and (marriage notwithstanding) wants to be with you she wouldn't be also looking elsewhere - and you are worth much more than to be hanging around waiting for her to decide. I'd be inclined to say yes, an ultimatum might be a good idea to encourage her to decide what/who she truly wants; the one who gets (more) hurt if she pisses around is you. Do you have anything like an LGBT centre nearby? (There's me speaking as if I'd actually ever been brave enough to walk into mine...). I reckon it might be worth just aiming to meet other lesbian/bi women and developing friendships, like you said. Seeing what happens with someone who is prepared to commit to you.
I feel for you though. You are in an impossibly hard situation, complicated by the genders of those involved and the fact that there may well be grief for your own marriage involved (even if you don't want to be with him, it's natural).

Arrrgh got distracted and only just posted the above. Hope it still makes sense Why.

Yes Psykhe it does become disconcerting when you realised you have snogged almost everyone in a room at some point. Glad you understand the feeling fellow slag

Re my divorce it's just shit. Husband mostly in denial about it, living separately in the same house at present whilst we work out how to get the best situation for our 2 young kids

It sounds like you have the right attitude re your ex. It sounds so tough

Thanks Why. Yes that exactly, I'm in the early stages of divorce and feeling the grief for what was. I'm going to think on the ultimatum. She says it's her outlet for the emotional turmoil she is also feeling. It's all so raw, so I not even sure I'm in a position where I can define the rules of a relationship given how we started.

I'm worried about meeting anyone I know at a local LBGT group and outing my situation. But then as I said I not going to move forward without some risk. Scary shit

hello all just a few thoughts from someone who has been out since teens- you are what you are and if you encounter hostility from straight or gay people well they are tossers. most people in my experience accept sexulaity can change or people can realise what they have repressed later in life.
gay bars are ok but not great for meeting like minded people. dining or walking groups are probably better for this. dipping your toe is fine, bars and clubs however do have many sharks. events at gay centres or gay themed events such as pride or book readings are easy to attend and chat to people at. some sites can offer support- like ginger beer
coming out gets easier honest. the daunting/scary phase doesn't last forever. and if it doesnt feel right in the end, youre free to do whatever you want, theres no life membership

rumred thank you so much - that's an amazingly useful and helpful post! I'm off to check out ginger beer....

oh thank you whyaspoon Im glad it was helpful. have just found there's an LGBT section on meetup.com. Looks good, lots on, will be trying some of it myself- bars bore me and online dating is beyond mind numbing. Hope you find something fruitful soon