Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

508 replies

breakfastatchanel · 04/09/2016 21:42

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

OP posts:
RebelRogue · 05/09/2016 14:17

Looby I was a victim(more than once). I do not feel insulted by OP's thread. I actually get where she is coming from and why she might be questioning things,especially if it's as she claims,from an "intellectual" point of view.

AGruffaloCrumble · 05/09/2016 14:19

No he's not telepathic which is precisely why a quick 'is this ok?' would help.
So would OP actually saying no at all.

venusinscorpio · 05/09/2016 14:20

He's not a man who "simply had sex". He's a man who gave oral sex and then penetrated the OP without protection without asking for her consent or checking she was ok.

LadyintheRadiator · 05/09/2016 14:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EttaJ · 05/09/2016 14:28

Yes lady I did. You crossed a line, don't bring my DC into this. You carry on with your rape nonsense. I think you're wrong but you can think whatever you like.

WomanActually · 05/09/2016 14:31

I'm sorry to all the women who have spoke of going through sex acts that they didn't want because they didn't want to be rude or impolite or embarass the man. I'm sorry to all the women who have pretended to enjoy things they didn't like when they actually would rather it stopped out of politeness. Flowers

Is this the female socialisation thing? If women are socialised to not be impolite, to not embarrass others, to not cause a fuss, to ignore our discomfort for the comfort if others, then I don't think it's surprising that many of us have not said no to things we don't want and just waited for it to be over.

Politeness, courtesy and manners go both ways, I think it's really rude and bad mannered to assume the person your about to stick your dick in is ok with you not using a condom.

I'm only going off women I know but most of them would not be ok with sexual intercourse with a one night stand or new partner without a condom, and would stop if one wasn't available. Is it something most men expect/assume? Genuine question.

OP maybe should have asked him to stop, once she realised what was happening but I can totally see why she didn't and I can see why the experience is upsetting for her. He absolutely should have checked no condom was ok first.

I'm trying to teach dd that it's not rude to say no at any point, that just because she liked one thing then it doesn't mean she has to let another thing happen. She can stop at any point and it's not rude because nobody should be expecting or assuming access to her body because she agreed to a,b or c, I also tell my son to make sure the person he is with is ok with what's happening, that if that are doing a, to check it's ok to move to be that if he senses she's not ok and if he thinks she's going along with things to make him happy he should stop.

I kind of think if men are really worried about women claiming rape the next morning etc then they'd be happy to stop for all of a few seconds just to check his partner is ok with what he's about to do, instead of exaggerating about needing a signed contract to prove consent just in case (have had a few men I know say this)

Again, I'm sorry OP, sorry he didn't ask about not using a condom, and sorry that you didn't feel you could stop it once he'd gone ahead without one. Flowers

LadyintheRadiator · 05/09/2016 14:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AGruffaloCrumble · 05/09/2016 14:33

Consent is the responsibility of both!

EttaJ · 05/09/2016 14:36

Like I said lady my DC are all grown up and doing fabulously. You just worry about your own. I don't believe in rape myths . I do however believe in equal responsibility. OP in this case took no care of herself. You cannot seriously believe she was raped. Oh but you do.

JacquettaWoodville · 05/09/2016 14:37

Even if OP had said, "no, get off me" the moment after she was penetrated and the man had done so, he would still have put his penis, uncondomed, into her without consent.

It's relevant what happened after the moment of penetration if the OP was asking about chances of conviction . She wasn't. She was asking about the moment a man put his penis into her without getting consent first. Consent to oral sex is not consent to PIV, with or without a confirm.

JacquettaWoodville · 05/09/2016 14:38

"Today 14:33 AGruffaloCrumble

Consent is the responsibility of both!"

In what way?

It is the responsibility of a person initiating a sex act to be sure his/her partner consents to that sex act.

LadyintheRadiator · 05/09/2016 14:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BarbarianMum · 05/09/2016 14:49

IME it is normal for a new sexual partner to ask before moving on to sexual penetration and for things like condom usage to be discussed. Sorry your experience hasn't been the same OP Sad

AGruffaloCrumble · 05/09/2016 14:51

Jacquetta
Both parties are capable of stating their intentions. OP could have very easily said "I don't want to have sex" when foreplay started. My DP doesn't ask me every step along if I consent, it is implied by my willingness to participate in foreplay.

JigglyPuffsCaptor · 05/09/2016 14:52

Sorry for disappearing I've been in work. So today I asked my team at lunch time what they felt of this "argument" most are in their mid 20's and if their not shagging one another, they are at it all weekend.

None of whom believed neither male nor female that a man must explicitly ask "if it's ok" before intercourse if foreplay has been consensual and perceivably enjoyable. They were all in agreement no, stop, silence or stiffiening of their sexual partners , change in body language would equal concern and would stop immediately.

One raised the argument that in this scenario "it's ok" actually wouldn't be verbal consent, he worried that the female would then say " no you misunderstood me, I mentioned it was ok to carry on with oral not penetrate me, he said she would have to ask clearly "can I put my dick in?" To make sure he was ok with this woman.

I was amazed to hear that some of the group actually record their ONS audio, to ensure they can't be accused of rape if their tipsy. This shocked me!

I suppose what I'm saying is the small straw poll of very sexually active people didn't agree this was rape, whilst they empathised that it wasn't great for her, it wasn't rape.

Many of the men said they worry about accusations like this, they worry one day a woman might be able to place a historic rape charge, they feel some women would use these types of scenarios to 'get back at men after they cut contact on a ONS.

JacquettaWoodville · 05/09/2016 14:54

" OP could have very easily said "I don't want to have sex" when foreplay started. "

Consent to oral sex does not imply consent to PIV sex. Where do we stop? Do I need to say I don't consent to anal if i consent to PIV?

"My DP doesn't ask me every step along if I consent, it is implied by my willingness to participate in foreplay."

That works for you as a couple. Presumably you've taken the steps you want re contraception and std protection. That is not the case here.

JacquettaWoodville · 05/09/2016 14:56

And this was a first time encounter. Surely it's not uncommon to do some things but not others the first time you go to bed with someone?

AGruffaloCrumble · 05/09/2016 15:01

If I was giving my partner a handjob and I suddenly moved to giving him oral sex, have I committed a sexual offence? Apparently we need to have verbal confirmation before any kind of escalation.
If you were having intercourse and your partner moved to go to anal and you didn't consent, would you make no objections? Because that's what happened in this situation. I hope you asked every single one of your sexual partners before doing any kind of escalating in a sexual act. After a kiss you should ask, "do you mind if I use tongue now?"

myownperson · 05/09/2016 15:01

Many of the men said they worry about accusations like this, they worry one day a woman might be able to place a historic rape charge, they feel some women would use these types of scenarios to 'get back at men after they cut contact on a ONS.

Ignoring the bullshit about women claiming rape to get back at men, if these young men are so worried then what are they doing to be absolutely sure they have consent?

I can tie myself up in knots about consent but not in this scenario. He penetrated from behind with no notice and absolutely no consent. I'm baffled by the posts here. What use is it for OP to say "No" when it has happened.

AGruffaloCrumble · 05/09/2016 15:03

What use is it for OP to say "No" when it has happened.
So her partner has some idea that she will go on to accuse him of being a rapist! So he has chance to stop a sexual act that his partner does not want to be happening!

venusinscorpio · 05/09/2016 15:06

You're taking the piss Gruffalo, but you're on very dodgy ground if you think that giving someone a hand job automatically means that you can give them a blow job, or that they can just stick their cock down your throat without asking. So yes, you may have committed a sexual offence if you go to oral sex without consent. But hopefully your partner wouldn't report you.

JigglyPuffsCaptor · 05/09/2016 15:07

It would appear so Gruffalo, each escelation requires explicit consent regardless, and if this is the case then you can't argue well of your married you don't have to ask, because that would also be assumed consent. So any sexual activity regardless if it's a ONS or within your 40year marriage, now needs explicit consent as sexual intimacy increases it would appear.

Someone asked what are these men doing, to avoid accusations, recording themselves having sex Confused which I was literally Shock about.

myownperson · 05/09/2016 15:12

If you were having intercourse and your partner moved to go to anal and you didn't consent, would you make no objections?

So if this happened, as in he had already engaged in anal sex, you would be fine with saying no at that point? When it has already fucking happened?

You wouldn't have liked to have had a choice BEFORE it happened. I am guessing you haven't had that happen. Because if you hadn't planned anal sex you really are unlikely to be happy having to say actually can you stop that. You might even find you freeze and don't stop it continuing.

venusinscorpio · 05/09/2016 15:13

There is a big difference between an established couple, and a one night stand. There is no frame of reference if you've never had sex with the person before. That is an important component of whether there can be a reasonable belief in consent.

JigglyPuffsCaptor · 05/09/2016 15:16

Venus no, as a victim of marital rape, no it makes not one jot if difference how long the relationship has been "established".

Swipe left for the next trending thread