Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

[breakfastatchanel]

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

So to be clear, I should be asking directly "can I give you head now?" I have no worries in the slightest that my Fiancé would let me know immediately if he didn't consent to something. venus have you asked someone before you changed from kissing to using tongues?

"So her partner has some idea that she will go on to accuse him of being a rapist! "

This is a straw person. The OP has not done this. She is asking if the incident was assault or rape as she feels uncomfortable about it.

Even if everyone said, "yes, it was rape" then it's unlikely she'd go to the police. So can we focus on the actual situation? Thanks.

I have been in that situation person in a ONS and when he went to initiate, I said a firm "no I don't want to do that", he said "okay that's fine, no worries" and there were no problems at all. I think it must be about the manner in which it is done. My ONS gave me time to object. If he hadn't it would be a different story indeed.

"My ONS gave me time to object. If he hadn't it would be a different story indeed."

Which is exactly the scenario here - he put his uncondomed penis into her vagina without "giving her time to object" (or checking he had her consent, as I would phrase it)

'The majority of the time, consent is implied rather than verbal. You don't stop at each stage, you take your cues from the minutes and seconds preceding the next part.'

I wonder what cues the guy in the original post took to mean that he could put his dick in without a condom. Especially given that she was on her front so couldn't see what he was doing and he couldn't read from her facial expressions whether she was happy with this escalation.

Sorry person I do see it was the other kind of situation you were talking about. Yes, I would consider that a sexual assault.

Thanks Gruffalo

I think that is what it comes down to though, if he forced himself inside her with no moment of pause but at the same time, a moment of pause can seem different from one person to another. He may have thought he paused before penetration, giving her time to object, she may not have realised that was what he was doing.

Well I'm not sure "time to object" is always the best way to establish consent but even so...
The OP didn't expect penetration and didn't get time to object.

Sorry my phone is freezing. Lots of cross posting.

"He may have thought he paused before penetration, giving her time to object, she may not have realised that was what he was doing."

And that is an argument that might be made in court if it came to that, but OP isn't coming at it from that angle.

(It also doesn't sound like it to me, and IMO any pause that wasn't long enough to get a condom or ask if it was OK to proceed without a condom was not long enough)

Procrastinating why didn't OP say she wanted to use a condom, why didn't OP say when she was first starting to engage in sexual activity, I don't want PIV, why didn't OP object to being turned around?

We will never know, but this man was not a mind reader, he had no idea OP didn't want to engage in intercourse with a condom, it was never ever said to him. I suppose that's what this boils down to for me, it seems OP wanted to be able to stay quet and not voice her levels or objection and then blame him when it didn't go to plan.

I think the man in question would be horrified to find out he is being brandished a rapist, from his point of view, he was engaged in consensual enjoyable sex with a adult that increased in intamacy as is "normal" without objection form OP.

It seems like you don't want tthem to ask directly "can I put m penis in your vagina" but from reading this thread it's the only question that would stop a accusation of rape .and he must also ask at every step of the may "if he can proceed"?

What i find worrying on this thread is that despite false rape accusations are so rare,men are so worried of being falsely accused they are recording the sex? Btw do they need consent for that is it legal? Would it even be admissible in court?

Rebel I have no idea, I was shocked they record the audio not visual apparently, one man (not in the group) gets women to speak on recording stating their name .and that they are consenting to sex. It's apparently becoming more and more common.

I honestly have no idea why they feel the need to go to such lengths, but they are.

Name change fail I'm JigglyPuffsCaptor haha sorry for any confusion.

"Procrastinatingwhy didn't OP say she wanted to use a condom, why didn't OP say when she was first starting to engage in sexual activity, I don't want PIV, why didn't OP object to being turned around?"

Ok, firstly, the OP isn't claiming to have had a problem with being turned around. She's also said she would have been quite willing to have sex (iirc). What she did have a problem with is him putting his dick in while her back was turned without consent or a condom.

Secondly, why would she state that she wanted to use a condom? She probably thought that was a given and that they'd discuss it before sex. Only he didn't give her the chance.

I wondered if it was legal. Quite frankly sounded like rubbish to me. Why would you think it's clumsy, unrealistic, a passion killer or whatever the barrier is to establish clear consent in a ONS - and think recording is a better plan. They reject "explicitly asking" yet will record in case she fries rape. Pretty awful view of women.

"Secondly, why would she state that she wanted to use a condom? She probably thought that was a given and that they'd discuss it before sex. Only he didn't give her the chance."

Well, quite. I would consider a condom, or at least a discussion about condom use, to be a 'standard' for a ONS, not the opposite i.e. you have to state you don't want sex without a condom.

'It seems like you don't want tthem to ask directly "can I put m penis in your vagina"'

I'm happy with that question, it's others stating that it would be ridiculous. Alternatively, 'shall I get a condom?'/ 'I haven't got a condom, is that OK' would've worked, wouldn't it?

Cries not fries obviously
I may have to stop posting on my broken phone as I keep cross posting with typos! Screen is shattered.

Does the person who records the audio of their audio during sexual encounters as evidence of consent make sure the woman he knows is doing so? If he doesn't tell them, then isn't that a crime in itself as he won't have her consent to record her during sex? I'd be furious if I found out afterwards that a partner had recorded me without my knowledge.

Something feels weird to me about someone considering having sex with a woman, worrying that she may at some point in the future say he's raped her and coming to the conclusion to record her as evidence. Something about that makes me feel uneasy and I can't out my finger on it, if he is not telling the woman he is recording it then he's either not thinking about how she'd feel about being recorded during sex, or he is considering how she'd feel and doing it anyway. If he genuinely feels that just asking if she's ok before moving on to another act isn't enough, or that there's a good a chance a woman he's choosing to have sex with will say it's rape, then the safest thing to happen is not have sex with that person imo.

If he's not telling the women he's recording them, then it's shadey as fuck because there's a very good chance those women would have said no to sex with him had they know they'd be recorded, and in a way if they have considered this and recorded anyway then I'd wonder in what other ways they'd ignore their partners right to have a say in what happens.

Every woman I have ever known myself included has asked about protection well before events unfold.

"Do you have a condom?" "only with a condom" "there's a condom in my bag" , not many wait till a split second before piv to say "oh by the way put a condom on"

Why didn't OP make this clear before hand? You will say she shouldn't need to, which is fair enough, but she has to at some point state verbally she wants to use a condom, the bloke isn't going to know she wants to use one, it may be his preference not to use one, and as no objection was raised or his preference questioned how was he to know?

woman I don't know the ins and out of it I'm afraid, I was too shocked to question it. The case I read on the BBC headgear said the women knew they were being recorded.

Maybe the OP wasn't expecting or wanting penetrative sex Jiggly

Why would she think about using a condom if she wasn't expecting to have PIV sex?