Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

[breakfastatchanel]

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

Cross post!

Jiggly I'd be worried in case he gets consent recorded,has sex and after he rapes her. Because that is more likely to happen than a woman making a false accusation.

"you will say she shouldn't need to, which is fair enough, but she has to at some point state verbally she wants to use a condom, the bloke isn't going to know she wants to use one, it may be his preference not to use one, and as no objection was raised or his preference questioned how was he to know?"

Ask?

This thread is fucking appalling, poor OP.

Someone putting their penis in you from behind when you had no idea they were about to do it, and hadn't physically (i.e. eye contact, you clearly seeing what they were doing, participation) or verbally ("I want to fuck you" "Yes" etc) would be a) a massive shock and b) a real violation. If you were giving a new bloke a blowjob, and suddenly rammed a dildo up his arse without having mentioned it beforehand, would that be fine with everyone then?

Jesus Christ.

We are not walking round in a state of permanent consent. Consenting to one sexual act does not mean you have consented to all. It's really not fucking difficult to check physically or verbally via this thing called COMMUNICATION with a partner, whether they're ok with what you're about to do.

This guy didn't check, he didn't care, he was just using this woman as a fuck hole and didn't care what she thought about it. He's an awful dickhead and clearly doesn't care whether or not his partners consent.

People talking about "what about with my husband blah blah" know they're being disingenuous and should just stop it.

OP, I would have felt horrified and out of control too (because you were) and he was wrong to do that to you.

Jizz, it's not only in "MN world" that these things are important. You're ignorant of what constitutes sexual assault. It doesn't matter what your opinion is about it.

The circumstances in a one night stand are very different to one where there is an established pattern of behaviour. Depending on the circumstances, if your partner accused you of rape or sexual assault and it went to court (which is admittedly very unlikely, as with most reported rapes), you may have to demonstrate that you have taken sufficient action to obtain consent to that sex act, especially if unprotected sex. Moving to penetrating someone is a different act. It is an escalation. It is too late to get consent once you have penetrated someone, you have already committed the act. It's sensible to make sure your partner is ok with it. People freeze when they are shocked by what they perceive as an assault. The onus is on you according to the law. Chances are, you'd get away with it. But not always. It depends on the exact circumstances.

It seems like what I'm getting from this thread the woman should never have to ask or state her preference, and the male must to "all the work"

I think we can all see were not going to agree on this, so I honestly think it's best now for me to leave it. It's my opinion that the man in this scenario is not a rapist. Whilst I do agree OP has understandably the right to feel upset/angry about the event I do not feel it falls in to the relms of rape.

I'm.not flouncing but, it's just going round in circles for me, and I don't think I can talk about it anymore without upsetting myself, so for my own sanity I think I'll call quits

Go and read the sexual offences act 2003, jiggly. You might find it enlightening. The onus is on the person who initiates the sex act to have done enough to establish consent. Its only a problem when the other person says they didn't consent. It's not "all the work". Thats a silly way of looking at it.

What is the absolutely terrible thing that happens if one person stops to check they have consent?

Surely, at worst, if the consent is there, it's something like "well, duh, of course I want you to put it in now"?

The "at worst" if the consent is not there is a serious crime that will impact on both parties.

Isn't that worth ten seconds and a risk of feeling a bit embarrassed?

Consent is not always about being verbal, no. I've had people say to me 'are you sure you're happy about doing this' to check I was ok.

The acts preceding intercourse are taken into account to try to ascertain whether there was a genuine belief in consent. Where you are wrong is thinking that consent to a preceding sexual act automatically means consent to a different one. I've also been both sexually assaulted and raped, but that fact is not relevant to someone else's entirely different circumstances.

'This guy didn't check, he didn't care, he was just using this woman as a fuck hole and didn't care what she thought about it. He's an awful dickhead and clearly doesn't care whether or not his partners consent. '

^^ this, absolutely. Yes a man like this will just try to get away with it and won't bother to check and his actions show this. I've had men just shove their finger in places without asking and others who say 'is it ok to do this?'

There's no excuse whatsoever.

Venus from what I can see, women here want men to ask at every escalation if they can continue not to do so is rape. A man can have what seems like foreplay with an adult who is enjoying it, to move to PIV with no objection or question and then his partner continue to react in a pleasurable manner, but he's actually a rapist.

The woman need not object, need not question his actions, the woman need not make the partner aware of her wishes or intentions, the woman does not need to even need to tell a man she would like to use a condom, he should automatically just know this, and if he fails to guess correctly he's a rapist. The fact the female has given him not a bread crumb of evidence of what she wants doesnt want and continues to perceivable enjoy the experience, that's ok?

Like I said were never going to agree, I just hope men evolve and get some sort of mind reading ability.

Mind reading not necessary.

Opening mouth and asking 'is this OK?/do you have a condom?' doesn't require telepathic ability.

OP was 18 or so. Many people are virgins or fairly sexually inexperienced when they go to uni; another reason not to presume oral sex automatically means consent to PIV.

He's not a rapist for not using a condom, although that could be seen as an exacerbating factor. The onus in law is with him to check things are ok (including "reading the situation", yes) before he sticks his cock in someone, notwithstanding any previous actions. This man seems to have been rather careless of her consent. I'm not sure why that is such a difficult concept for people.

You all keep saying it wouldn't be hard form him to say " is this ok" equally it wouldn't be hard for her to say "I don't want piv" can't you see in this scenario the door swings both ways?

She wants unconscious, she had full cognitive function in this scenario to say what she didn't want, but she never did? Not even after the piv instead she continued to fake enjoyment? Can you not see how that's pretty confusing for the other sexual partner?

She didn't get the chance to say she didn't want it until it was too late. Yes it might be confusing for him, but the point is that he shouldn't have done it. She's not reporting it to the police, is she?

"You all keep saying it wouldn't be hard form him to say " is this ok" equally it wouldn't be hard for her to say "I don't want piv" can't you see in this scenario the door swings both ways? "

No. Because the onus is on the instigator of the sexual act to ensure they have consent.

Again, if he was having consensual PIV and suddenly tried PIA, would you be saying, "well, 50:50 responsibility, she should have said no PIA at the start'? What if he invited a friend in? Should OP have to specify, "just you and me, eh, no texting your mate"?

She didn't get the chance to say she didn't want it until it was too late. Yes it might be "confusing" for him that she didn't immediately throw him off, but the point is that he shouldn't have done it in the first place. He should have made sure she was ok with taking it to the next level, on something most people expect to have a say in. She's not reporting it to the police, is she? There are no consequences for him, it's her that's upset about it. She's right to feel it was wrong and he didn't treat her well, IMO.

I am creeped out by the early posts (or posters) on this thread.

he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom.

This ^ sounds CONSENSUAL to some of you?

He gave the OP no chance to either agree to sex or refuse.

The world has officially gone barking if two teenagers/adults can't go from co we ring and enjoyable foreplay to copulation without one of them being brandished and abuser

No, you have gone officially barking if you missed the part in the OPs post where she said she was not enjoying the foreplay. You also missed the part where she was given no chance to take part in the decision to have full sex - and without protection. You just made up your own 'poor bloke' scenario in your head to attack the Op with.

How many women/girls are sexually abused and raped every day? How many men are falsely accused everyday? How many women you personally know that have been sexually assaulted or raped? How many men do you personally know that have been falsely accused?
But somehow the worry and angst is still more prevalent for the poor poor men and the possibility of a false accusation

Sorry I've just realised I made a double post with my last - I think it crashed earlier when I was posting, I thought it didn't go through the first time and then I added some more text.

This is the sort of 'sex' I think, sadly, a significant number of women have.

While it may not be rape in the legal sense, I think it is a grey area.

Actually, I don't think it's asking too much in a first-time encounter for a man to make sure you actually want to have sex before "surprise" sticking his penis in.

I'd suggest the reason he made OP turn over was so he could do just that with minimum opportunity for her to say no. Why would a man not want someone to have an opportunity to say no? Because he's not entirely sure she'd say yes if he asked...

Also don't agree that engaging in foreplay is definite consent to PIV. Just like consent to PIV isn't consent to anal.

How many times have we heard of men having PIV sex from behind and then just chancing their luck and trying to shove their penis in for anal because they know if they ask the woman will say no? This is the same thing.

There is a wider cultural issue of women feeling like they need to be nice, polite and compliant, even when they don't want to do [whatever].